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Isn’t selling a product based off those unmet claims fraud; though? :/ It’s not the failure to realize it, it’s that the product was sold with dates it was exp

Isn’t selling a product based off those unmet claims fraud; though? :/ It’s not the failure to realize it, it’s that the product was sold with dates it was expected to be functional to x degree by. Tesla FSD may be one of the simplest examples of false advertising I can think of that’s still going.

lesuorac 4y ago
> [1] In law, fraud is intentional deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain, or to deprive a victim of a legal right. Arguable Tesla believe the claims it was making. Certainly a lot of people who bought Teslas thought they did! I don't think consumers shouldn't have any recourse though. They should be given refunds but I don't think they should get any sort of multiplier/etc. (In general/for non-necessitates) If you give a merchant $x in exchange for Y and the merchant later realizes they can't give you Y I think it's totally fair to just give you back the $x. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud
- freejazz 4y ago
  Tesla should be punished for its misleading/fraudulent advertising...
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > Arguable Tesla believe the claims it was making. It may have believed its claims about the future would be true, the problem (well, for fraud; for false advertising and implied warranty claims, that belief may not be material) is that it supported them with misleading/false representations of past & current facts within Tesla’s knowledge, like the conditions of the self-driving demo.
- lostgame 4y ago
  It’s the promises of ‘full FSD in _ years’ that were regularly spouted out that I think breaks the whole thing. They - of course - never made any _-year goal - and - arguably - who knows if they honestly ever will. They charged a lot of people money to participate in an experiment to see if they could ever do it with the promise that they could do it soon enough that it would sell, only to gradually let the truth set in. Now people are rightfully pissed, that none of these promises that - to be fair, mostly Musk, made; have come to any sort of fruition, they’re tired of paying to be Guinea pigs; and they want the finished final product.

lesuorac 4y ago

> [1] In law, fraud is intentional deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain, or to deprive a victim of a legal right. Arguable Tesla believe the claims it was making. Certainly a lot of people who bought Teslas thought they did! I don't think consumers shouldn't have any recourse though. They should be given refunds but I don't think they should get any sort of multiplier/etc. (In general/for non-necessitates) If you give a merchant $x in exchange for Y and the merchant later realizes they can't give you Y I think it's totally fair to just give you back the $x. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud

freejazz 4y ago
Tesla should be punished for its misleading/fraudulent advertising...
dragonwriter 4y ago
> Arguable Tesla believe the claims it was making. It may have believed its claims about the future would be true, the problem (well, for fraud; for false advertising and implied warranty claims, that belief may not be material) is that it supported them with misleading/false representations of past & current facts within Tesla’s knowledge, like the conditions of the self-driving demo.
lostgame 4y ago
It’s the promises of ‘full FSD in _ years’ that were regularly spouted out that I think breaks the whole thing. They - of course - never made any _-year goal - and - arguably - who knows if they honestly ever will. They charged a lot of people money to participate in an experiment to see if they could ever do it with the promise that they could do it soon enough that it would sell, only to gradually let the truth set in. Now people are rightfully pissed, that none of these promises that - to be fair, mostly Musk, made; have come to any sort of fruition, they’re tired of paying to be Guinea pigs; and they want the finished final product.