7 ms·

Be really careful with this one. I spent my 20s working for startups, loved going to the office, and hanging out with friends outside work. Then my manager qui

by reureu 4y ago

Be really careful with this one. I spent my 20s working for startups, loved going to the office, and hanging out with friends outside work. Then my manager quit. Or a power-hungry executive starts targeting your area, creating chaos. Or the company doesn't raise the funding it needs. So, you quit, or get laid off, or fired. That family culture, and friends you saw every day and bonded with are either no where to be seen or the dynamic shifts so dramatically it becomes practically unbearable. Each job I seem to stay in touch with 1 or 2 coworkers regularly, and am on good terms with a few dozen more. But in terms meeting your social needs, it ends up hurting a lot more when you realize you were all alone the entire time and your coworkers were just paid to talk to you. This is part of why you see a lot more people in their 20s attending company functions or working in startup "family" cultures, and fewer in their 30s, 40s, or 50. It's good that you're finding something to help address your loneliness. I would encourage you to try to find a few work friendships that you can take offline and outside of work to start building a social network that's divorced from where you're working. And if you have a difficult time doing that, then that's particularly a skill you should work on developing -- because as someone in my mid-30s, it's only going to get harder to make and maintain friendships from here on out.

BobbyJo 4y ago
Counterpoint: as a 35 year old man, I met all of my closest friends at work, in the office, and I still talk to 3-4 daily. I work remote now and making new friends has become significantly harder because I no longer have consistent repeated contact with anyone. Outside of works, meeting a new person tends to be a one-off far more often than not.
- SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
  They said: > Counterpoint: as a 35 year old man, I met all of my closest friends at work, in the office, and I still talk to 3-4 daily. You said: >Each job I seem to stay in touch with 1 or 2 coworkers regularly, You're describing the same thing - you will keep a friend or two from your old jobs, but it's not a whole social group.
  - BobbyJo 4y ago
    The lead with > So, you quit, or get laid off, or fired. That family culture, and friends you saw every day and bonded with are either no where to be seen or the dynamic shifts so dramatically it becomes practically unbearable. As well as the distinction between work friends and a real social network was what I was attempting to counterpoint. It's little confusing because they backtrack at the end and say to use work to build a social group, which is what I'm promoting.
    - reureu 4y ago
      I'm saying start building the social network while you're in the job, and don't let the company's social infrastructure be your social network or else you'll be screwed when you leave that job. If OP is feeling better because they can go to bowling night with their team, and feel connected and bonded... then that's not sufficient long term. If they meet one or two people who they seem to jive with and suggest meeting up outside of work for bowling... then that's a good way to start a social network that'll outlast their job and potentially not land them in the misery they were in originally. Startups, especially in the Bay Area, will often promote the former to make people feel engaged in their work and to scratch that itch for connection. But in some ways that works against your own longer-term social needs.
      - BobbyJo 4y ago
        Makes sense!
SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
> Each job I seem to stay in touch with 1 or 2 coworkers regularly, and am on good terms with a few dozen more. But in terms meeting your social needs, it ends up hurting a lot more when you realize you were all alone the entire time and your coworkers were just paid to talk to you. Yeah, exactly - you'll probably make a few good work friends who you'll convert to just friends and then keep in touch with afterwards, but for the rest the common link is the work and once that's gone so is the connection.
brandonhorst 4y ago
This is a false dichotomy. There is value in the normal social interactions of a workplace even if they don't become lifetime friends. Seeing people during the day, small talk, having relationships come and go - these are healthy and enjoyable things even if they never get deeper.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Cwizard 4y ago
  I think you’re both right, just don’t put all your eggs in one basket. Sure having office “friends” or social interactions at the office is a good thing but just make sure those aren’t your only social contacts.
  - thecoppinger 4y ago
    Here here
- dividedbyzero 4y ago
  > There is value in the normal social interactions of a workplace even if they don't become lifetime friends. Seeing people during the day, small talk, having relationships come and go - these are healthy and enjoyable things even if they never get deeper. Definitely true, but it's a completely different kind of value than what you get from a stable circle of friends outside work. If you have the latter sorted out, than the former is a great addition because overcoming challenges together and spending a ton of time together leads to bonding, if shallow, and I've had lots and lots of fun with my "work besties" especially early in my career. Plus, since most people do spend a lot of time at work, might as well make that as pleasant as possible, and being well-connected and well-liked never hurts. But if your social network is just your colleagues, then this sort of thing becomes liability since in all likelihood you'll lose all of them, possibly quite abruptly, possibly even when you actually need support. A lot of workplace friendships tend to not outlast a common place of employment for long, if at all, so changing jobs means you'll also ditch your social circle, and having to start over again and again isn't fun after the third time or so, nor is discovering that some people become icy once they're sufficiently ahead in the rat race. Workplaces tend to be an environment well-suited for relatively shallow but fun connections, but quite badly suited for forming deep, long-lasting ones, and a healthy social life needs both. Hence I second grandparent's advice to focus on building a stable social network outside work (possibly even from work friendships where there is a strong connection and a common hobby or the like, but that should happen outside the office and over non-work topics). It does get harder to make new connections later in life (at least I find it so); better not tie those that you manage to make to a workplace that may well try to foster and exploit this exact thing because it serves the interests of the business to have you depend on their office for social warmth. That's also not necessarily tied to WFH or from an office; some people may find it easier to do this in a WFH setting, others will be very successful mining the office for actual friends to go hiking with on the weekend.
darkwizard42 4y ago
The parent comment is talking about human interaction, not human interdependency. You can acknowledge and hold the belief that working in an office causes constant human interaction AND not treat everyone there as family or become ingrained in that lifestyle.
shitlord 4y ago
I'm good friends with many of my former coworkers from the office (boring FAANG 9-5 job, not a startup). It's easy to chat, make lunch plans, go drinking, etc when you're all working together in the same space. Having said that, we were all in our 20s and early 30s, so I think you're onto something. There are plenty of young people around to hang out with, but not so many middle aged ones.
jimbokun 4y ago
Friendships made in any context might end as people move or take on different commitments. Friendships made in the workplace aren't better than friendships made in other contexts, but they aren't necessarily worse, either. A lot of coworker friendships may end when the working relationship ends, but it's possible to carry on a friendship with a former coworker after you are no longer working together.

by reureu 4y ago

BobbyJo 4y ago

Counterpoint: as a 35 year old man, I met all of my closest friends at work, in the office, and I still talk to 3-4 daily. I work remote now and making new friends has become significantly harder because I no longer have consistent repeated contact with anyone. Outside of works, meeting a new person tends to be a one-off far more often than not.

SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
They said: > Counterpoint: as a 35 year old man, I met all of my closest friends at work, in the office, and I still talk to 3-4 daily. You said: >Each job I seem to stay in touch with 1 or 2 coworkers regularly, You're describing the same thing - you will keep a friend or two from your old jobs, but it's not a whole social group.
- BobbyJo 4y ago
  The lead with > So, you quit, or get laid off, or fired. That family culture, and friends you saw every day and bonded with are either no where to be seen or the dynamic shifts so dramatically it becomes practically unbearable. As well as the distinction between work friends and a real social network was what I was attempting to counterpoint. It's little confusing because they backtrack at the end and say to use work to build a social group, which is what I'm promoting.
  - reureu 4y ago
    I'm saying start building the social network while you're in the job, and don't let the company's social infrastructure be your social network or else you'll be screwed when you leave that job. If OP is feeling better because they can go to bowling night with their team, and feel connected and bonded... then that's not sufficient long term. If they meet one or two people who they seem to jive with and suggest meeting up outside of work for bowling... then that's a good way to start a social network that'll outlast their job and potentially not land them in the misery they were in originally. Startups, especially in the Bay Area, will often promote the former to make people feel engaged in their work and to scratch that itch for connection. But in some ways that works against your own longer-term social needs.
    - BobbyJo 4y ago
      Makes sense!

SketchySeaBeast 4y ago

> Each job I seem to stay in touch with 1 or 2 coworkers regularly, and am on good terms with a few dozen more. But in terms meeting your social needs, it ends up hurting a lot more when you realize you were all alone the entire time and your coworkers were just paid to talk to you. Yeah, exactly - you'll probably make a few good work friends who you'll convert to just friends and then keep in touch with afterwards, but for the rest the common link is the work and once that's gone so is the connection.

brandonhorst 4y ago

This is a false dichotomy. There is value in the normal social interactions of a workplace even if they don't become lifetime friends. Seeing people during the day, small talk, having relationships come and go - these are healthy and enjoyable things even if they never get deeper.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Cwizard 4y ago
I think you’re both right, just don’t put all your eggs in one basket. Sure having office “friends” or social interactions at the office is a good thing but just make sure those aren’t your only social contacts.
- thecoppinger 4y ago
  Here here
dividedbyzero 4y ago
> There is value in the normal social interactions of a workplace even if they don't become lifetime friends. Seeing people during the day, small talk, having relationships come and go - these are healthy and enjoyable things even if they never get deeper. Definitely true, but it's a completely different kind of value than what you get from a stable circle of friends outside work. If you have the latter sorted out, than the former is a great addition because overcoming challenges together and spending a ton of time together leads to bonding, if shallow, and I've had lots and lots of fun with my "work besties" especially early in my career. Plus, since most people do spend a lot of time at work, might as well make that as pleasant as possible, and being well-connected and well-liked never hurts. But if your social network is just your colleagues, then this sort of thing becomes liability since in all likelihood you'll lose all of them, possibly quite abruptly, possibly even when you actually need support. A lot of workplace friendships tend to not outlast a common place of employment for long, if at all, so changing jobs means you'll also ditch your social circle, and having to start over again and again isn't fun after the third time or so, nor is discovering that some people become icy once they're sufficiently ahead in the rat race. Workplaces tend to be an environment well-suited for relatively shallow but fun connections, but quite badly suited for forming deep, long-lasting ones, and a healthy social life needs both. Hence I second grandparent's advice to focus on building a stable social network outside work (possibly even from work friendships where there is a strong connection and a common hobby or the like, but that should happen outside the office and over non-work topics). It does get harder to make new connections later in life (at least I find it so); better not tie those that you manage to make to a workplace that may well try to foster and exploit this exact thing because it serves the interests of the business to have you depend on their office for social warmth. That's also not necessarily tied to WFH or from an office; some people may find it easier to do this in a WFH setting, others will be very successful mining the office for actual friends to go hiking with on the weekend.

darkwizard42 4y ago

The parent comment is talking about human interaction, not human interdependency. You can acknowledge and hold the belief that working in an office causes constant human interaction AND not treat everyone there as family or become ingrained in that lifestyle.

shitlord 4y ago

I'm good friends with many of my former coworkers from the office (boring FAANG 9-5 job, not a startup). It's easy to chat, make lunch plans, go drinking, etc when you're all working together in the same space. Having said that, we were all in our 20s and early 30s, so I think you're onto something. There are plenty of young people around to hang out with, but not so many middle aged ones.

jimbokun 4y ago

Friendships made in any context might end as people move or take on different commitments. Friendships made in the workplace aren't better than friendships made in other contexts, but they aren't necessarily worse, either. A lot of coworker friendships may end when the working relationship ends, but it's possible to carry on a friendship with a former coworker after you are no longer working together.