8 ms·

Yeah... sitting in front of screens all day makes us forget we are highly developed animals first, then rational minds second (or third). Out “lower” instinctua

Yeah... sitting in front of screens all day makes us forget we are highly developed animals first, then rational minds second (or third). Out “lower” instinctual selves who crave that sensual/physical experience are never fully satisfied/soaked within that disembodied life. Also, Modern civilization is making a lot of things "frictionless". Less friction is indeed more convenient. However, it makes us forget that a lot of "real-life" frictions (difficulties, challenges, Human interactions...) are what make us grow. Our "higher selves” who crave that "personal growth" are never contented with that bland/rippleless experience. So, we are left in the middle in superficial satisfaction and security, with deep fulfilment (both lower and higher) always out of reach. I wonder if the "mental illness" epidemic has something to do with this, as a psychological mechanism to get us out of our virtual stupor.

cheq 4y ago
this reminds me of some things in the book Brave New World
the_only_law 4y ago
> Also, Modern civilization is making a lot of things "frictionless". Recently it feels like the stuff that’s frictionless are the distractions and time wasters and all the important stuff I’ve been trying to do are well guarded by walls of bureaucracy.
- ambicapter 4y ago
  That's exactly how I see it. Everything that is frictionless has been designed that way to either suck your attention or your money. Everything that rewards you in life has always had some modicum of struggle to it, and now that we're all used to convenience, those struggle walls seem much higher than before. I don't really know how to get out of it. I take ice-cold showers every morning and it's now more or less "easy". Doesn't really feel like a big step though. I guess I just keep going, trying more and more difficult things.
clnq 4y ago
Living a life in complete comfort can make us fear even minor discomfort, pain, and stress. But these are ordinary and essential parts of human life. Stupor is a very appropriate word to describe a state of living without even minor discomforts, and I believe this lifestyle has severe negative mental and physical health consequences. Mental health consequences include: - Anxiety about minor unpleasant things. - Catastrophizing them. - Ruminating on inconsequential aspects of one's life. Also, living a dull life probably has other adverse mental health effects. Physiological health consequences include losing physical readiness through lack of (uncomfortable but necessary) exercise. And we'll likely discover a lot of harmful physiological effects of a live-at-home lifestyle that remote work, online shopping, telehealth, and social media now enable. While I can see some glaring negatives of living a life devoid of discomfort, there are likely many more. Psychologists and other health professionals should pay more attention to this.
- xedrac 4y ago
  This is one reason why I regularly participate in Crossfit. It pushes me into a very uncomfortable place, perhaps even painful. Yet it has a strong grounding effect on my mental health, and makes me feel alive. Other stress/pain in my life seems much more manageable somehow.
  - clnq 4y ago
    A little discomfort can put a lot of things in perspective.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
daltont 4y ago
I recently listened to a podcast about that same concept: https://www.artofmanliness.com/character/advice/nietzsche-technology-podcast/ https://www.artofmanliness.com/character/advice/nietzsche-te...
pixl97 4y ago
Smith: " Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program."
mikrl 4y ago
> we are highly developed animals first, then rational minds second I feel this. People I interact with all day everyday remotely I have trouble relating to. Where I’ve made new friends recently we have gone out maybe once or twice, shared some personal opinions on life etc and quickly I feel an emotional connection to the point where I care about their well-being and want to support them. It’s happened a few times like that in the last year, various gender identities and ages.
65 4y ago
I know some people aren't going to like reading this, but this is the reason I got an office job after working 2+ years remotely. I am in my mid 20s, working as a software engineer. I have never worked in an office. I live alone in a city where I don't know anyone. I haven't talked to another person in real life since Thanksgiving. Will there be bad things about the office? I am 100% sure there will be. But for me the decision to not be remote wasn't even a want, but a need. I am slowly losing my mind, locked up in my apartment, 23 hours a day. Before someone comments about "go to a rock climbing gym" or "go to a coffee shop" - I tried all of those things. It's not that simple. An office job is a very consistent way to talk to another human person in real life.
- danwee 4y ago
  > Before someone comments about "go to a rock climbing gym" or "go to a coffee shop" - I tried all of those things. It's not that simple. So, you are choosing the cheapest/easiest of the options out there: to talk to people that are forced to see you in person every day of the week. To that, I can only say: good luck.
  - wnolens 4y ago
    While you spin it negatively, for a 20 y/o especially that is valuable life experience. I think they are wise for making that change. You aren't going to like everyone you meet, but you need to cooperate with them. And some can't be cooperated with, and you need to handle THAT.
- pjc50 4y ago
  I can totally understand this perspective; we're social animals. But I'm also mindful that the reverse has applied to a lot of people both throughout history and the present day, who had to be away from their families for work. Or situations where a couple have to choose who gives up their career in order to live in the same place. Or people jammed into overcrowded apartments because that's all they can afford in order to get to where the work is. No easy answers, but the people who say remote work has been liberatory for them aren't lying. (I'm grateful that I can have a partial-wfh experience where I go into the office two days a week, I think that's a compromise that works for me. I like being in the office, it's a nice office, I just don't like commuting.)
thenerdhead 4y ago
A sedentary lifestyle likely contributes to this heavily. You can be in the best physical shape and still live a very sedentary lifestyle. I think Nietzsche said something along this line of any idea that comes from movement are those that have actual value. Up to your interpretation of movement here though.
LoganDark 4y ago
> Out “lower” instinctual selves who crave that sensual/physical experience are never fully satisfied/soaked within that disembodied life. Isn't this why a lot of furries exist? (I say this as a DID system where all members happen to be furry creatures.)
thewebcount 4y ago
> Also, Modern civilization is making a lot of things "frictionless". I would debate this. Everything seems to have more and more friction to me. There was a sweet spot about 10-15 years ago where things were mostly frictionless, and it's been intentionally made worse because people believe it improves their numbers (without actually understanding what the numbers mean, I suspect). Some examples: - I want to read a blog. 2 paragraphs in, the screen is taken over by a popover trying to trick me into giving them my email (by making the "Cancel" control not a button, in an odd place, smaller, and a different font). I do one of 3 things that does not help the person who put it there - I give a fake email address and continue reading, I do the work and find the close/cancel button, or I simply close the tab because it's not worth my time. I suspect many people either enter a fake email or enter their real email address then mark the first few "newsletters" as spam and forget about them once their spam detection recognizes it regularly. - I order a simple product like a gallon of milk or a light bulb, or have a routine visit to the dentist or eye doctor. I get an email imploring me to write a review of this revolutionary product or service. I ignore it. They send me several more. Annoyed, I write a scathing review of their stupid hounding efforts after buying something so mundane and give them the lowest marks. Sometimes this backfires and they want to "make it up to me" and offer me some sort of small discount on more of their products or service, or they want me to give more information "so they can improve my experience". Having the ability to write a review is great for when something goes really well or poorly, but who has time to do this for every single bank transaction? Like all I did was pay a bill. It worked exactly as expected. There's nothing to say. It wasn't spectacular, it wasn't awful. But if you do write a review and give them only 3 out of 5 stars, you'll hear about it, thus wasting more of your time. - I want to watch the next episode of my favorite show. There's a trailer for a different show from the same service. If it's related, maybe I'm interested. Just let me tell you whether I want to see these or not in a preference. Don't make me skip it every time. But most of the time it's something they're pushing that's unrelated and not interesting, or that I already saw 5 times when watching the last 5 episodes, so usually I hit the skip button. Then there's a title card about downloading their podcast about the show. No thanks. Then a title card to "stay tuned after the episode to have it mansplained to you". Then, finally, there's the opening credits. Then after the show, there's the closing credits, followed by the credits for all the people who did voiceovers in other languages that you didn't have turned on, followed by mansplaining the episode. "When Jeremy yelled at Sally, he was angry with her!" You don't say! (Yes, I usually bail out shortly after the closing credits, it's just ridiculous how much other junk they put in there. Plus, sometimes if you don't watch it all, the episode remains in your queue until you mark it as watched.) No one of these is terrible on its own, but it's the death by 1,000 paper cuts. I just want to accomplish some task and someone or something is constantly interrupting me to try and extract more data or money from me. It's incredibly irritating.

cheq 4y ago

this reminds me of some things in the book Brave New World

the_only_law 4y ago

> Also, Modern civilization is making a lot of things "frictionless". Recently it feels like the stuff that’s frictionless are the distractions and time wasters and all the important stuff I’ve been trying to do are well guarded by walls of bureaucracy.

ambicapter 4y ago
That's exactly how I see it. Everything that is frictionless has been designed that way to either suck your attention or your money. Everything that rewards you in life has always had some modicum of struggle to it, and now that we're all used to convenience, those struggle walls seem much higher than before. I don't really know how to get out of it. I take ice-cold showers every morning and it's now more or less "easy". Doesn't really feel like a big step though. I guess I just keep going, trying more and more difficult things.

clnq 4y ago

Living a life in complete comfort can make us fear even minor discomfort, pain, and stress. But these are ordinary and essential parts of human life. Stupor is a very appropriate word to describe a state of living without even minor discomforts, and I believe this lifestyle has severe negative mental and physical health consequences. Mental health consequences include: - Anxiety about minor unpleasant things. - Catastrophizing them. - Ruminating on inconsequential aspects of one's life. Also, living a dull life probably has other adverse mental health effects. Physiological health consequences include losing physical readiness through lack of (uncomfortable but necessary) exercise. And we'll likely discover a lot of harmful physiological effects of a live-at-home lifestyle that remote work, online shopping, telehealth, and social media now enable. While I can see some glaring negatives of living a life devoid of discomfort, there are likely many more. Psychologists and other health professionals should pay more attention to this.

xedrac 4y ago
This is one reason why I regularly participate in Crossfit. It pushes me into a very uncomfortable place, perhaps even painful. Yet it has a strong grounding effect on my mental health, and makes me feel alive. Other stress/pain in my life seems much more manageable somehow.
- clnq 4y ago
  A little discomfort can put a lot of things in perspective.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

daltont 4y ago

I recently listened to a podcast about that same concept: https://www.artofmanliness.com/character/advice/nietzsche-technology-podcast/ https://www.artofmanliness.com/character/advice/nietzsche-te...

pixl97 4y ago

Smith: " Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program."

mikrl 4y ago

> we are highly developed animals first, then rational minds second I feel this. People I interact with all day everyday remotely I have trouble relating to. Where I’ve made new friends recently we have gone out maybe once or twice, shared some personal opinions on life etc and quickly I feel an emotional connection to the point where I care about their well-being and want to support them. It’s happened a few times like that in the last year, various gender identities and ages.

65 4y ago

I know some people aren't going to like reading this, but this is the reason I got an office job after working 2+ years remotely. I am in my mid 20s, working as a software engineer. I have never worked in an office. I live alone in a city where I don't know anyone. I haven't talked to another person in real life since Thanksgiving. Will there be bad things about the office? I am 100% sure there will be. But for me the decision to not be remote wasn't even a want, but a need. I am slowly losing my mind, locked up in my apartment, 23 hours a day. Before someone comments about "go to a rock climbing gym" or "go to a coffee shop" - I tried all of those things. It's not that simple. An office job is a very consistent way to talk to another human person in real life.

danwee 4y ago
> Before someone comments about "go to a rock climbing gym" or "go to a coffee shop" - I tried all of those things. It's not that simple. So, you are choosing the cheapest/easiest of the options out there: to talk to people that are forced to see you in person every day of the week. To that, I can only say: good luck.
- wnolens 4y ago
  While you spin it negatively, for a 20 y/o especially that is valuable life experience. I think they are wise for making that change. You aren't going to like everyone you meet, but you need to cooperate with them. And some can't be cooperated with, and you need to handle THAT.
pjc50 4y ago
I can totally understand this perspective; we're social animals. But I'm also mindful that the reverse has applied to a lot of people both throughout history and the present day, who had to be away from their families for work. Or situations where a couple have to choose who gives up their career in order to live in the same place. Or people jammed into overcrowded apartments because that's all they can afford in order to get to where the work is. No easy answers, but the people who say remote work has been liberatory for them aren't lying. (I'm grateful that I can have a partial-wfh experience where I go into the office two days a week, I think that's a compromise that works for me. I like being in the office, it's a nice office, I just don't like commuting.)

thenerdhead 4y ago

A sedentary lifestyle likely contributes to this heavily. You can be in the best physical shape and still live a very sedentary lifestyle. I think Nietzsche said something along this line of any idea that comes from movement are those that have actual value. Up to your interpretation of movement here though.

LoganDark 4y ago

> Out “lower” instinctual selves who crave that sensual/physical experience are never fully satisfied/soaked within that disembodied life. Isn't this why a lot of furries exist? (I say this as a DID system where all members happen to be furry creatures.)

thewebcount 4y ago

> Also, Modern civilization is making a lot of things "frictionless". I would debate this. Everything seems to have more and more friction to me. There was a sweet spot about 10-15 years ago where things were mostly frictionless, and it's been intentionally made worse because people believe it improves their numbers (without actually understanding what the numbers mean, I suspect). Some examples: - I want to read a blog. 2 paragraphs in, the screen is taken over by a popover trying to trick me into giving them my email (by making the "Cancel" control not a button, in an odd place, smaller, and a different font). I do one of 3 things that does not help the person who put it there - I give a fake email address and continue reading, I do the work and find the close/cancel button, or I simply close the tab because it's not worth my time. I suspect many people either enter a fake email or enter their real email address then mark the first few "newsletters" as spam and forget about them once their spam detection recognizes it regularly. - I order a simple product like a gallon of milk or a light bulb, or have a routine visit to the dentist or eye doctor. I get an email imploring me to write a review of this revolutionary product or service. I ignore it. They send me several more. Annoyed, I write a scathing review of their stupid hounding efforts after buying something so mundane and give them the lowest marks. Sometimes this backfires and they want to "make it up to me" and offer me some sort of small discount on more of their products or service, or they want me to give more information "so they can improve my experience". Having the ability to write a review is great for when something goes really well or poorly, but who has time to do this for every single bank transaction? Like all I did was pay a bill. It worked exactly as expected. There's nothing to say. It wasn't spectacular, it wasn't awful. But if you do write a review and give them only 3 out of 5 stars, you'll hear about it, thus wasting more of your time. - I want to watch the next episode of my favorite show. There's a trailer for a different show from the same service. If it's related, maybe I'm interested. Just let me tell you whether I want to see these or not in a preference. Don't make me skip it every time. But most of the time it's something they're pushing that's unrelated and not interesting, or that I already saw 5 times when watching the last 5 episodes, so usually I hit the skip button. Then there's a title card about downloading their podcast about the show. No thanks. Then a title card to "stay tuned after the episode to have it mansplained to you". Then, finally, there's the opening credits. Then after the show, there's the closing credits, followed by the credits for all the people who did voiceovers in other languages that you didn't have turned on, followed by mansplaining the episode. "When Jeremy yelled at Sally, he was angry with her!" You don't say! (Yes, I usually bail out shortly after the closing credits, it's just ridiculous how much other junk they put in there. Plus, sometimes if you don't watch it all, the episode remains in your queue until you mark it as watched.) No one of these is terrible on its own, but it's the death by 1,000 paper cuts. I just want to accomplish some task and someone or something is constantly interrupting me to try and extract more data or money from me. It's incredibly irritating.