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Makes sense. I’m surprised they weren’t already by this point. What’s the benefit of Waze being a separate app at this point besides the brand name? Why not ju

by MBCook 4y ago

Makes sense. I’m surprised they weren’t already by this point. What’s the benefit of Waze being a separate app at this point besides the brand name? Why not just fold it into the main Maps app?

version_five 4y ago
Having separate apps is better for users. I personally find Waze way better than maps for driving (it's still crap mind) - whatever your opinion about their relationship merits, consolidation will remove choice. It doesn't surprise me that Google's doing it, what's the point in having a monopoly if you can't use it to your advantage. It's not good for users though.
brookst 4y ago
Never understood this either. Even if they need to be separate apps on user devices for brand / user / other reasons, seems like they should be light skins on top of the same core app. Amazing it took 10 years to combine the teams.
vineyardmike 4y ago
Besides the brand? I don’t drive but I know plenty of people who use Waze as the “car gps” but gMaps as the “search engine for places”. Even if it’s just a GUI, different apps get you different experiences, and if you succeed it’s a bigger % of phone usage. People who mentally treat location searching and navigation as separate tasks (worthy of separate apps) are at risk of leaving for a competitor. So build two tools specific to each use case. It’s the Unix way. I don’t know if this is the case, but it’s likely there is some left over legal issues to wrt user data.
- jagaerglad 4y ago
  Yeah Waze is just such a different experience for me. I haven't noticed the "riskier driving" mentioned by others in this thread but in Waze I find the voices friendlier in the languages I speak, giving instructions more often timing them better. Also you have the aspect of seeing other Waze users on the road, giving the app a cozier familiar feeling in a way. The ads suck though but oh well
colordrops 4y ago
Waze used to route you on the fastest route regardless of how private or rich a neighborhood is. Don't know if that's the still the case, but Google maps definitely doesn't give you the absolute fastest route, but rather the fastest route that takes major roads.
- Crosseye_Jack 4y ago
  Could this be simply a case of "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of a few"?. For example I live near a busy road during "rush hour" in the morning and evenings. A few mins up the road from me 2 major roads intersect which causes more hassle during these peak times. Now If you are travelling West to East to wish to turn right at the intersection to continue your journey south its quicker during those times to cut though my neighborhood (and same in the other direction) and cut out the queues leading up to the intersection. However my neighborhood's roads are not designed for that much traffic to flow though them (cars parked in the street narrowing the roads and reducing visablity of pedestrians esp kids playing outside). The handful of locals that travel though the neighborhood to get home (live one side but enter the other) are fine however if Google Maps routed everyone wishing to make that turn though the neighborhood it would make the neighborhoods roads much less friendly to the pedestrians of the neighborhood esp at times kids are going to school or are back home from school and playing outside. Keeping the through traffic to the major roads keeps everyone safer, and actually faster overall because the major roads aren't littered with cards parked in the road creating bottlenecks. Much like how the london underground lies to travellers and routes them around long detours during busy periods to help prevent a crush if they all went the shortest & fastest route possible - https://youtu.be/IrHRQSm6LIs?t=57 https://youtu.be/IrHRQSm6LIs?t=57
- ghaff 4y ago
  Not really my experience. Seems to depend what "mood" Google Maps is in. I've definitely had it take me on circuitous routes even with recent snow which almost always makes the circuitous routes worse. If you somewhat know the area you can of course usually override.
- thewataccount 4y ago
  Could be related to Braess's paradox? In this case "adding lanes" would be "increased routing" > [The] idea was that if each driver is making the optimal self-interested decision as to which route is quickest, a shortcut could be chosen too often for drivers to have the shortest travel times possible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braess%27s_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braess%27s_paradox Personally I'd rather not go through neighborhoods for just a tiny micro-optimization because of how much more "work/attention" is required given the increased pedestrian traffic.
mcast 4y ago
Many people still use Waze for getting live traffic updates on a roadtrip (object on road, police speed trap ahead). I don't think those features were fully incorporated into Maps.
- jrochkind1 4y ago
  Why not though? Is there a point to having two maps apps run by two different teams?
- josefresco 4y ago
  > Many people still use Waze for getting live traffic updates on a roadtrip (object on road, police speed trap ahead). Once I showed my father-in-law the "police reported ahead" and "hazard reported ahead" features he was sold. He now demands Waze on every road trip and he's not especially tech-savvy. Google doesn't supply this same data.
  - Bhilai 4y ago
    Not true, I receive the very same updates (object on the road, speed trap, disable vehicle etc.) on Google Maps app on Android all the time.
    - Grazester 4y ago
      These alerts on Maps is sporadic for me for some reason.
  - notatoad 4y ago
    I definitely get those alerts on Google maps. AFAIK it literally is the same data, the reporting system is already shared between the two apps
    - packetlost 4y ago
      I can confirm that it is 100% not the case on iOS. There is not a way to report these things on the CarPlay app at all, and only very occasionally will there be a "speed trap" alert on Google Maps.
avip 4y ago
1. Waze has some 150M active users which you're risking 2. Waze has features that google maps does not (?) s.a the "ETA histogram"
- ghaff 4y ago
  Then Google should add those features to its main product. It seems idiotic for Google to maintain two maps products like this--and has been for years.
  - thorncorona 4y ago
    Makes the UI even more complex. I think for a complex use case such as maps it makes sense to have 2 different UIs.
    - ghaff 4y ago
      You'd have to convince me why Google has two very distinct map app use cases. Don't see it personally.
      - xyzelement 4y ago
        I'll give you two extremes: - a grandma who is not that comfortable driving, not that comfortable with technology, etc. and is never in a rush. - a urban taxi driver whose livelihood depends on hustling to destinations as quickly as possible, even through trickier driving scenarios. If I told you one uses Maps and one uses Waze, could you guess which one is likely which? That's the two use cases.
        ilyt 4y ago
        Sooo google maps would have to add a switch in it's settings ? Surely a grandpa will be lost in option that's disabled by default!
        xyzelement 4y ago
lukas099 4y ago
On my old phone, Google Maps would chew up my battery but Waze had no problems. I used Maps just for finding new restaurants and other places.
- yreg 4y ago
  Not sure "a map app that chews up battery" is a desired use case.
  - lukas099 4y ago
    Waze's use case: navigation without using all the battery Maps's use case: > I used Maps just for finding new restaurants and other places.
buildsjets 4y ago
Use case - Road warrior who spends around 3 months a year traveling in various areas of the US, 50/50 urban areas vs rural or very small towns. I find the Waze experience on Carplay to be far superior to Gmaps. I prefer how it provides access to the key features like reporting/voice prompt, the size/position/color how things are displayed, etc. The level of detail (surrounding streets and landmarks) is more useful on Waze. My experience has been that Waze seems to have better traffic prediction and avoidance in the areas I use it. Just last night I was following a cow orker from the plant we were working at to a restaurant about 30 mins away. We were right behind each other when my Waze suggested taking the exit and following a different route than my friend. I arrived at the restaurant a good 5 minutes before him, I asked, and he was using gmaps.
- yreg 4y ago
  From my experience Waze always optimized for getting to the destination as fast as possible, which I really liked. Other navigations like to keep instructions simple and keep you on the large roads, Waze has no problem routing you through 10 extra instructions to save a minute. Disclaimer: I haven't used Waze in years so this might have changed.
el-salvador 4y ago
> What’s the benefit of Waze being a separate app at this point besides the brand name? Why not just fold it into the main Maps app? There are differences in my region which make me think that the apps have different mapping and routing engines. Turn by turn dirrections and road condition information are much more accurate in Waze. There's a larger Waze local community that helps keep maps up to date. We do use Google Maps, but mostly as a Yellow Pages substitute or for checking business opening time.
emodendroket 4y ago
I'm not sure it is a compelling justification to have two whole separate apps but Waze's pitch seems to be "we'll send you down all the little residential streets to save a minute or two" and Google Maps is more conventional.
GuB-42 4y ago
In France, Waze is essentially a speed trap detector, I am sure it is the biggest use case, more than navigation. Maps don't do that. The thing is: what Waze does is borderline illegal, and it is regularly updated to still do its thing without getting struck down. Google Maps is "cleaner", and therefore much worse at detecting speed traps. I guess the questionable legality is a good reason for keeping these apps separate.
tinyhouse 4y ago
Waze is much better in some countries while GMaps in others like the US. Waze is better mostly in countries where it's very popular.
vxNsr 4y ago
gMaps has really bad direction detection imo, Waze is fantastic. Every time I use gMaps it gets very confused about where I’m facing and will randomly assume I’m turning left or right, I’ve seen this happen on both iOS and android, Samsung, LG, and Pixel, since gMaps started having turn by turn directions. Idk what gMaps is doing wrong but it’s really annoying.

by MBCook 4y ago

Makes sense. I’m surprised they weren’t already by this point. What’s the benefit of Waze being a separate app at this point besides the brand name? Why not just fold it into the main Maps app?

version_five 4y ago

Having separate apps is better for users. I personally find Waze way better than maps for driving (it's still crap mind) - whatever your opinion about their relationship merits, consolidation will remove choice. It doesn't surprise me that Google's doing it, what's the point in having a monopoly if you can't use it to your advantage. It's not good for users though.

brookst 4y ago

Never understood this either. Even if they need to be separate apps on user devices for brand / user / other reasons, seems like they should be light skins on top of the same core app. Amazing it took 10 years to combine the teams.

vineyardmike 4y ago

Besides the brand? I don’t drive but I know plenty of people who use Waze as the “car gps” but gMaps as the “search engine for places”. Even if it’s just a GUI, different apps get you different experiences, and if you succeed it’s a bigger % of phone usage. People who mentally treat location searching and navigation as separate tasks (worthy of separate apps) are at risk of leaving for a competitor. So build two tools specific to each use case. It’s the Unix way. I don’t know if this is the case, but it’s likely there is some left over legal issues to wrt user data.

jagaerglad 4y ago
Yeah Waze is just such a different experience for me. I haven't noticed the "riskier driving" mentioned by others in this thread but in Waze I find the voices friendlier in the languages I speak, giving instructions more often timing them better. Also you have the aspect of seeing other Waze users on the road, giving the app a cozier familiar feeling in a way. The ads suck though but oh well

colordrops 4y ago

Waze used to route you on the fastest route regardless of how private or rich a neighborhood is. Don't know if that's the still the case, but Google maps definitely doesn't give you the absolute fastest route, but rather the fastest route that takes major roads.

Crosseye_Jack 4y ago
Could this be simply a case of "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of a few"?. For example I live near a busy road during "rush hour" in the morning and evenings. A few mins up the road from me 2 major roads intersect which causes more hassle during these peak times. Now If you are travelling West to East to wish to turn right at the intersection to continue your journey south its quicker during those times to cut though my neighborhood (and same in the other direction) and cut out the queues leading up to the intersection. However my neighborhood's roads are not designed for that much traffic to flow though them (cars parked in the street narrowing the roads and reducing visablity of pedestrians esp kids playing outside). The handful of locals that travel though the neighborhood to get home (live one side but enter the other) are fine however if Google Maps routed everyone wishing to make that turn though the neighborhood it would make the neighborhoods roads much less friendly to the pedestrians of the neighborhood esp at times kids are going to school or are back home from school and playing outside. Keeping the through traffic to the major roads keeps everyone safer, and actually faster overall because the major roads aren't littered with cards parked in the road creating bottlenecks. Much like how the london underground lies to travellers and routes them around long detours during busy periods to help prevent a crush if they all went the shortest & fastest route possible - https://youtu.be/IrHRQSm6LIs?t=57 https://youtu.be/IrHRQSm6LIs?t=57
ghaff 4y ago
Not really my experience. Seems to depend what "mood" Google Maps is in. I've definitely had it take me on circuitous routes even with recent snow which almost always makes the circuitous routes worse. If you somewhat know the area you can of course usually override.
thewataccount 4y ago
Could be related to Braess's paradox? In this case "adding lanes" would be "increased routing" > [The] idea was that if each driver is making the optimal self-interested decision as to which route is quickest, a shortcut could be chosen too often for drivers to have the shortest travel times possible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braess%27s_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braess%27s_paradox Personally I'd rather not go through neighborhoods for just a tiny micro-optimization because of how much more "work/attention" is required given the increased pedestrian traffic.

mcast 4y ago

Many people still use Waze for getting live traffic updates on a roadtrip (object on road, police speed trap ahead). I don't think those features were fully incorporated into Maps.

jrochkind1 4y ago
Why not though? Is there a point to having two maps apps run by two different teams?
josefresco 4y ago
> Many people still use Waze for getting live traffic updates on a roadtrip (object on road, police speed trap ahead). Once I showed my father-in-law the "police reported ahead" and "hazard reported ahead" features he was sold. He now demands Waze on every road trip and he's not especially tech-savvy. Google doesn't supply this same data.
- Bhilai 4y ago
  Not true, I receive the very same updates (object on the road, speed trap, disable vehicle etc.) on Google Maps app on Android all the time.
  - Grazester 4y ago
    These alerts on Maps is sporadic for me for some reason.
- notatoad 4y ago
  I definitely get those alerts on Google maps. AFAIK it literally is the same data, the reporting system is already shared between the two apps
  - packetlost 4y ago
    I can confirm that it is 100% not the case on iOS. There is not a way to report these things on the CarPlay app at all, and only very occasionally will there be a "speed trap" alert on Google Maps.

avip 4y ago

1. Waze has some 150M active users which you're risking 2. Waze has features that google maps does not (?) s.a the "ETA histogram"

ghaff 4y ago
Then Google should add those features to its main product. It seems idiotic for Google to maintain two maps products like this--and has been for years.
- thorncorona 4y ago
  Makes the UI even more complex. I think for a complex use case such as maps it makes sense to have 2 different UIs.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    You'd have to convince me why Google has two very distinct map app use cases. Don't see it personally.
    - xyzelement 4y ago
      I'll give you two extremes: - a grandma who is not that comfortable driving, not that comfortable with technology, etc. and is never in a rush. - a urban taxi driver whose livelihood depends on hustling to destinations as quickly as possible, even through trickier driving scenarios. If I told you one uses Maps and one uses Waze, could you guess which one is likely which? That's the two use cases.
      - ilyt 4y ago
        Sooo google maps would have to add a switch in it's settings ? Surely a grandpa will be lost in option that's disabled by default!
        xyzelement 4y ago

lukas099 4y ago

On my old phone, Google Maps would chew up my battery but Waze had no problems. I used Maps just for finding new restaurants and other places.

yreg 4y ago
Not sure "a map app that chews up battery" is a desired use case.
- lukas099 4y ago
  Waze's use case: navigation without using all the battery Maps's use case: > I used Maps just for finding new restaurants and other places.

buildsjets 4y ago

Use case - Road warrior who spends around 3 months a year traveling in various areas of the US, 50/50 urban areas vs rural or very small towns. I find the Waze experience on Carplay to be far superior to Gmaps. I prefer how it provides access to the key features like reporting/voice prompt, the size/position/color how things are displayed, etc. The level of detail (surrounding streets and landmarks) is more useful on Waze. My experience has been that Waze seems to have better traffic prediction and avoidance in the areas I use it. Just last night I was following a cow orker from the plant we were working at to a restaurant about 30 mins away. We were right behind each other when my Waze suggested taking the exit and following a different route than my friend. I arrived at the restaurant a good 5 minutes before him, I asked, and he was using gmaps.

yreg 4y ago
From my experience Waze always optimized for getting to the destination as fast as possible, which I really liked. Other navigations like to keep instructions simple and keep you on the large roads, Waze has no problem routing you through 10 extra instructions to save a minute. Disclaimer: I haven't used Waze in years so this might have changed.

el-salvador 4y ago

> What’s the benefit of Waze being a separate app at this point besides the brand name? Why not just fold it into the main Maps app? There are differences in my region which make me think that the apps have different mapping and routing engines. Turn by turn dirrections and road condition information are much more accurate in Waze. There's a larger Waze local community that helps keep maps up to date. We do use Google Maps, but mostly as a Yellow Pages substitute or for checking business opening time.

emodendroket 4y ago

I'm not sure it is a compelling justification to have two whole separate apps but Waze's pitch seems to be "we'll send you down all the little residential streets to save a minute or two" and Google Maps is more conventional.

GuB-42 4y ago

In France, Waze is essentially a speed trap detector, I am sure it is the biggest use case, more than navigation. Maps don't do that. The thing is: what Waze does is borderline illegal, and it is regularly updated to still do its thing without getting struck down. Google Maps is "cleaner", and therefore much worse at detecting speed traps. I guess the questionable legality is a good reason for keeping these apps separate.

tinyhouse 4y ago

Waze is much better in some countries while GMaps in others like the US. Waze is better mostly in countries where it's very popular.

vxNsr 4y ago

gMaps has really bad direction detection imo, Waze is fantastic. Every time I use gMaps it gets very confused about where I’m facing and will randomly assume I’m turning left or right, I’ve seen this happen on both iOS and android, Samsung, LG, and Pixel, since gMaps started having turn by turn directions. Idk what gMaps is doing wrong but it’s really annoying.