3 ms·

I believe the scheme worked like this (numbers are examples): * Driver's get $1 per delivery, plus tips. * Drivers get a guaranteed weekly take-home of $300,

I believe the scheme worked like this (numbers are examples): * Driver's get $1 per delivery, plus tips. * Drivers get a guaranteed weekly take-home of $300, provided they work 30 hours. * Consumers are allowed to give tips to the driver through the app, and '100% goes to the drivers'. But... Here's the catch. A typical driver does say 100 deliveries and gets $100 of tips in a week. So their take-home (which would be $200) gets increased to $300 by the guarantee. Now... Who lost out? Where is the fraud? It's unclear... The driver still got everything he was promised. The tips given by the consumer really did end up in the drivers pocket... But if a consumer is extra generous and gives an extra $50 tip, the driver gets nothing extra - since his total take-home would still be under $300, so would still be topped up to $300 by the company. So effectively the company received the extra generosity. Which isn't what the consumer intended.

pifm_guy 4y ago
This same 'fraud' exists in lots of social situations where someone offers to 'pay the remainder of a bill' or 'I'll top up your sponsorship to $1000'. Classic restaurant example:. "I saw that table gave you a 1 cent tip, so I'm going to tip you double". It's more of a social problem than a mathematical one. Either it's okay to reward someone inversely based on their past successes, or it isn't. "Do the best you can, and I'll pay the rest" is exactly that.
staticman2 4y ago
If the company promised the driver 300 dollars and used tips to reach that 300 dollar amount, it's not clear to me that the tips went to the driver at all. The tips reduced the company's liabilities.
- tpmoney 4y ago
  It's functionally no different than the system the federal government already approves for "traditional" tipped wages. Federal minimum wage for tipped wait staff is $2.13 / hour, with an obligation of the employer to pay out to $7.25/hour if and only if the tips on top of that $2.13 don't cause the employee to earn that amount or more.
  - staticman2 4y ago
    Yes but when I tip at a restaurant nobody claims 100 percent of the tip goes to the employee. The restaurant doesn't make any claims at all. The issue is whether Amazon was deceiving consumers, not whether this practice would otherwise be illegal.
    - hansvm 4y ago
      Depends on the restaurant. It's moderately common (>>1 instances) for the restaurant to institute a tip pool unbeknownst to customers or to skim the top and just guarantee minimum wage for the wait staff.

pifm_guy 4y ago

This same 'fraud' exists in lots of social situations where someone offers to 'pay the remainder of a bill' or 'I'll top up your sponsorship to $1000'. Classic restaurant example:. "I saw that table gave you a 1 cent tip, so I'm going to tip you double". It's more of a social problem than a mathematical one. Either it's okay to reward someone inversely based on their past successes, or it isn't. "Do the best you can, and I'll pay the rest" is exactly that.

staticman2 4y ago

If the company promised the driver 300 dollars and used tips to reach that 300 dollar amount, it's not clear to me that the tips went to the driver at all. The tips reduced the company's liabilities.

tpmoney 4y ago
It's functionally no different than the system the federal government already approves for "traditional" tipped wages. Federal minimum wage for tipped wait staff is $2.13 / hour, with an obligation of the employer to pay out to $7.25/hour if and only if the tips on top of that $2.13 don't cause the employee to earn that amount or more.
- staticman2 4y ago
  Yes but when I tip at a restaurant nobody claims 100 percent of the tip goes to the employee. The restaurant doesn't make any claims at all. The issue is whether Amazon was deceiving consumers, not whether this practice would otherwise be illegal.
  - hansvm 4y ago
    Depends on the restaurant. It's moderately common (>>1 instances) for the restaurant to institute a tip pool unbeknownst to customers or to skim the top and just guarantee minimum wage for the wait staff.