13 ms·

It's good to be passionate, but blind devotion is dangerous, especially since we already know by now Apple is positioning itself to become a major player in the

It's good to be passionate, but blind devotion is dangerous, especially since we already know by now Apple is positioning itself to become a major player in the advertising space and - with a dwindling economy and an increased pressure to sustained growth from shareholders - that's going to continuously encroach on our privacy guarantees for monetization purposes. I'm advocating for an open and interoperable ecosystem of operating systems, services and applications, which is the only way to ensure sustainable customer freedom. Unfortunately that ecosystem doesn't exist yet so we're stuck with the duopoly of evil-doers (and while Google openly admits it is their business model to monetize you and your data, Apple has been caught with their hands in the cookie jar a bunch of times already and they're just developing a sweet tooth, so...). Full disclosure: I've been using only iPhones for 12 years and am still using one today.

katbyte 4y ago
outside of appstore ads and ios ads for their services, where is apple doing advertising?
- falcolas 4y ago
  Throughout their News app for one.
  - sn0wf1re 4y ago
    And "news" in Stocks
    - nomel 4y ago
      Are these ads? If I see a large derivative, I can usually glance down at the relevant news to see why. More often than not, it says "No Recent Stories", which shouldn't be the case for an ad. The news articles in the main view are just top business stories from Apple News. I don't see anything ad like at all, actually.
  - thewebcount 4y ago
    Yeah, this has been so depressing to see. I disliked that there were ads when I signed up, but it was part of a bundle with other things (arcade, music, tv, fitness, etc.), so I gave it a try. But they've been increasing in frequency and they've been added to places they didn't exist before (like when you swipe to see the next article). It's still nowhere near as bad as reading a web page without an ad blocker, but it's definitely past my threshold of pain, and so I'm just using it less. I want the other things in the bundle, so they'll count me as a subscriber, but I'm using it less each day. What's particularly odd is that some articles have no ads at all. Some have the same ad repeated literally 3-5 times in a short 1,000 word article. And the ads are all trash. They seem like those awful chum-boxes you see on web sites. Who in their right mind thought this would be appealing to the typical Apple user? I mean, regardless, I have never intentionally clicked on any ad on the web in 30 years, and I'm not going to start now. It's sad because it's exposed me to regional newspapers from around the world. I live in California and see articles from newspapers in Idaho, Utah, Connecticut, upstate New York, Dallas, Miami, Chicago, etc. and even from other (mostly English-speaking) countries like Canada, England, Ireland, Isreal, and Australia. They even include some (English-language) stuff from China. I don't normally see news sources that diverse on the web because it takes more effort. But the ads just make it not worth it to continue using.
    - ziml77 4y ago
      Even with the amount of leverage they have to control third parties, media companies are too big for them to control. I’d be willing to bet they had little choice but to let the various publications run ads as they please. Those companies don’t need to be available on Apple News+ to survive. But Apple News+ has no chance without them.
    - brewdad 4y ago
      News+ silently dropped one of my preferred news sources last week. No updated articles for a week now and it's no longer listed on the news sources page on the web site. Oh well, I'm still in a free 6 month trial but no longer intend to become a paid subscriber next year.
      - 4y ago
  - rekoil 4y ago
    Lol, the News app is available in like two countries.
  - HL33tibCe7 4y ago
    Apple News is an unusual miss by Apple imo. It’s just not “Apple”, like everything else they do is.
- nullwarp 4y ago
  In the settings app they advertise iCloud if you aren't using it
  - riversflow 4y ago
    > ios ads for their services. I hate ads, but for most people paying some bucks a month to make sure their 2nd brain of photos/notes/passwords/texts/etc is totally (and now privately) backed up is a worthwhile insurance policy. I think the argument that advertising iCloud plan upgrades in settings, where you’ll be pointed to if you run out of backup storage, is very benign as far as ads go. Although I do think that they should have a method to dismiss it(I don’t see this so I’m projecting that they don’t).
    - HeckFeck 4y ago
      It is much, much less obnoxious than the constant nagging to use Edge and OneDrive we see in Windows. Windows even sent a notification questioning my choice to disable location tracking.
      - andrepd 4y ago
        I don't have ads on my phone or my desktop. Why should I settle for a shittier experience A? The fact that there is an even shittier experience B is no argument.
        HeckFeck 4y ago
        The only 'ads' I've seen from Apple have been the aforementioned iCloud invitation in Settings, there is also a prompt to sign up for iCloud when first setting up the system. That's an element of user choice - 'use our service, or don't, we won't ask twice'. Unlike MS - you have to link everything with an ID when first setting up W11, no choice unless you go to extreme workarounds. Constant nagging and manipulation thereafter. With that said, what platform are you using that has no ads at all? Presumably Linux on the desktop, which I can almost use. But unfortunately I can't use it on mobile, I have too many use cases in the personal and business world that require a 'normie' grade phone.
GeekyBear 4y ago
> Apple is positioning itself to become a major player in the advertising space Advertising does not require that you spy on each individual person. Google, for instance, used to show you ads based only on your search keywords.
- judge2020 4y ago
  > Google, for instance, used to show you ads based only on your search keywords. This is still true. You basically never see personalized ads on search, since getting a contextual ad for cruises when searching for programming answers probably isn't going to end up with many clicks. Instead, it's only really 'Google Ads' (AdSense on other websites) and YouTube where personalized ads result in higher CPMs. (Although Google does indeed use your search history for ad targeting.)
  - GeekyBear 4y ago
    > (Although Google does indeed use your search history for ad targeting.) Yes, and it's not the advertising part that is evil. It's the part where they spy on every aspect of your life because doing so makes ad sales more profitable.
    - yamtaddle 4y ago
      Point of order: their inline-ad-placement on search results is evil. It exists to trick the unwary, including vulnerable people like the elderly, sometimes into landing on scams, thinking they're legitimate because Google presented them as top-level search results.
      - GeekyBear 4y ago
        > Point of order: their inline-ad-placement on search results is evil. I don't think that is necessarily evil, but it certainly is embarrassing for Google since Google used to make fun of competing search engines for that exact behavior back when Google was still the underdog. Spying on everyone's credit/debit card transaction data, on the other hand, is definitely evil. > as Google said in a blog post on its new service for marketers, it has partnered with “third parties” that give them access to 70 percent of all credit and debit card purchases https://adwords.googleblog.com/2017/05/powering-ads-and-analytics-innovations.html https://adwords.googleblog.com/2017/05/powering-ads-and-anal...
kergonath 4y ago
> we already know by now Apple is positioning itself to become a major player in the advertising space We don’t know that. We know that they put ads in the App Store, that’s it. I wish they did not, because it made the store even more of an unusable mess, but it really is not even in the same league as Google and Facebooks, systematic surveillance. > increased pressure to sustained growth from shareholders This sounds truthy, but is there any evidence of this? Apple is famously the company that tells rent seekers after more ROI above all to fuck off (both Jobs and Cook). > I'm advocating for an open and interoperable ecosystem of operating systems, services and applications, which is the only way to ensure sustainable customer freedom. Now that’s a real point, which deserves more than being buried after a paragraph of half-truths (and I almost entirely agree, FWIW). > It's good to be passionate, but blind devotion is dangerous, After starting a post like this, it is disappointing that you fell in the trap you warned the OP about. Being contrarian and using mis-informed tropes is not a good way of having a rational discussion. It is not being cool or clever at all.
- manigandham 4y ago
  Everyone in adtech knows it. Apple (and Amazon) are both rapidly growing their advertising businesses. And 30% take rate of everything from your app including later subscriptions and services is extremely rent-seeking.
  - etempleton 4y ago
    I don’t think Apple is seriously considering a major play in ads and if they are I think this signals pretty hard that they won’t be doing it off the back of consumer data. It just doesn’t make sense to their business strategy. Apple is premium, ads are the antithesis of premium. Just doesn’t make business sense.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    Then don’t accept subscriptions via in app purchases? Many apps don’t including Netflix and Spotify.
    - 4y ago
jeffbee 4y ago
Speaking of blind devotion to memes, is there any objective data, anywhere, of any kind, that indicates a "dwindling economy"?
- fredoliveira 4y ago
  I can't generalize, but could point out to the contraction of venture capital investments, for example. Does that mean "dwindling economy"? Maybe not, but it does constitute some type of signal.
dwighttk 4y ago
>we already know by now Apple is positioning itself to become a major player in the advertising space Do we though?
- adra 4y ago
  Subjective and rhetorical, but yes lots of people think there's too much money on the table to just eschew ads in their products. Let's be honest, Apple has a captive market, and their largest real issue is that they make too much money and can't find anything to spend it on.
  - dwighttk 4y ago
    I’ll give you “lots of people think…” but not “we already know…” And “ads in their products” but not “a major player in the advertising space”
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  > Apple’s VP of advertising platforms Todd Teresi has been asked to bolster annual revenue into 'double digits' from about $4 billion today. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/kateoflahertyuk/2022/08/15/apple-is-about-to-launch-a-bold-new-ads-strategy-leak-suggests/?sh=5e968c29a7ee https://www.forbes.com/sites/kateoflahertyuk/2022/08/15/appl...
dontbenebby 4y ago
>Apple is positioning itself to become a major player in the advertising space and - with a dwindling economy and an increased pressure to sustained growth from shareholders - that's going to continuously encroach on our privacy guarantees for monetization purposes. Or they could sell us a rugged iPhone with a removable battery and SD card slot to extend storage but keep the proprietary OS to keep the music/movie ppl happy plus keep out malware not sent via FISA warrant, but if they did that Tim Cook might jump off the top of the donut apparently, so they keep going the way you describe.
- 0x457 4y ago
  > Or they could sell us a rugged iPhone with a removable battery and SD card slot to extend storage but keep the proprietary OS to keep the music/movie ppl happy plus keep out malware not sent via FISA warrant, but if they did that Tim Cook might jump off the top of the donut apparently, so they keep going the way you describe. I'm sure 3.5 humans who want that will appreciate that product.
  - dontbenebby 4y ago
    I was being a bit sarcastic but I think longer, removable battery rather than thin + using a charging case could have an appeal. (Same for an sd slot.) Especially paired with a form factor like the 6s for those who don’t want a phablet.
jmull 4y ago
> blind devotion is dangerous We aren’t talking about blind devotion, though, are we? We have a tangible actual important thing. Apple can’t plumb our backup data for their own profit. You want to be careful not to ignore information just because it doesn’t comport with your preconceived assumptions. At least consider weighing them against your assumptions? I’m never going to be against a cookie-based metaphor, but that doesn’t make it apt.
kornhole 4y ago
Explore Nextcloud. That is their vision and what they have implemented. I have been running on it for years since I left Goopple.
- TheCapeGreek 4y ago
  Nextcloud is more a backup-adjacent system. You can use it for backups, but you're on the hook for maintaining that system and keeping it secure. Maybe you have time and will to do so but most don't. It's a lot simpler than it used to be on Ubuntu (nowadays just `snap install nextcloud` and you're good to go) but that doesn't make it carefree. I ran my own Nextcloud instance for ~3 years, recently moved to Syncthing for simplicity. But that use case is more about making certain pieces of data available to all my devices, not for backups.
  - kornhole 4y ago
    File backup is just one of its many capabilities. I use these apps in Nextcloud currently which sync to all my devices: News/RSS reader Cospend like Ihatemoney Contacts Calendar Music Mail Photos Talk for voice and video Bookmarks Deck/kanban board Tasks Notes Maps Polls Forms Money Health Passwords Collectives/Wiki
    - TheCapeGreek 4y ago
      I did the same with my instance. More power to you if the tools are good enough for you, but I found them too clunky to use compared to dedicated products in the space. Still, I did appreciate the breadth of apps that one could install.
      - kornhole 4y ago
        Nextcloud ecosystem is best of class rather than best of breed. Not every app is the best, but many are under active development and improving rapidly. I might have too many eggs in one basket, the the maintenance is very easy this way.
trailbits 4y ago
> It's good to be passionate, but blind devotion is dangerous Agree with you there -- the data might be encrypted on Apple's servers but that doesn't mean Apple can't scan your data on your device and report the findings back to the mother ship. They've made it increasingly difficult to know or control what system processes do.
souplesse 4y ago
Can you give examples of some of the times Apple has been caught with their hand in the cookie jar? Otherwise it seems like a bit of a false equivalence.
hackernewds 4y ago
Exactly. With the actual observation of Apple pursuing ads after supposedly shutting out Meta, I'm holding my confetti on this for a while.
esskay 4y ago
> we already know by now Apple is positioning itself to become a major player in the advertising space There's a fundimentally different approach to advertising by Apple than say, Google or Facebook. For one thing Apple isn't doing web ads. They've not got an adsense style platform and likely never will. The ad network they're building is for inside their own apps, and likely eventually for app developers to integrate into their own apps - apps only. In addition those ads are for items within their existing ecosystem, ie more apps. In terms of data collection this means they dont need the insane levels of information that Google and Facebook collect. All they need is a rough idea of your interests, which can be gained from the apps you use, and your activity in their own apps. Everyone using an Apple device must know they store your location, so that ones an obvious no brainer. They dont however need to know your browsing habbits. Would it help target better? Absolutely, but the whole aim of their ad network is to keep you inside apps, not browsing the web. If you're using Chrome, Safari, etc they cant advertise to you as again, its not a web-based ad network. As data collection goes, the way they're doing it is about as least intrusive as you can get. Theres no following you around the internet going on, which has always been the biggest issue with Google and Facebook. I'm not saying Apple is a 'saint' in all of this, but its not even close to the level of tracking other companies use.
- heisenbit 4y ago
  > The ad network they're building is for inside their own apps, and likely eventually for app developers to integrate into their own apps - apps only. The money generated there will affect behavior elsewhere. These walled garden profit centers always do - having disproportionate number of resources for the task and with it the ability to ignore the needs of the greater business.
jaChEWAg 4y ago
"Unfortunately that ecosystem doesn't exist yet so we're stuck with the duopoly of evil-doers..." That is no longer the case. There are projects starting to come out which are open source and building on top of AOSP like GrapheneOS, CalyxOS and a few others but those two are solid options at the moment. I am not sure why GrapheneOS doesn't get mentioned here on HN but it's seriously a wonderful project that includes privacy features not available even on iOS. They are this far ahead of the game when it comes to privacy and security. Highly recommend checking them out. https://grapheneos.org https://grapheneos.org
- fsflover 4y ago
  > I am not sure why GrapheneOS doesn't get mentioned here on HN Probably because with GrapheneOS you have to rely on Android phone vendors which lock down the devices more every year. In my opinion, this is not a sustanable solution in the long term. GNU/Linux phones could be more sustainable.

katbyte 4y ago

outside of appstore ads and ios ads for their services, where is apple doing advertising?

falcolas 4y ago
Throughout their News app for one.
- sn0wf1re 4y ago
  And "news" in Stocks
  - nomel 4y ago
    Are these ads? If I see a large derivative, I can usually glance down at the relevant news to see why. More often than not, it says "No Recent Stories", which shouldn't be the case for an ad. The news articles in the main view are just top business stories from Apple News. I don't see anything ad like at all, actually.
- thewebcount 4y ago
  Yeah, this has been so depressing to see. I disliked that there were ads when I signed up, but it was part of a bundle with other things (arcade, music, tv, fitness, etc.), so I gave it a try. But they've been increasing in frequency and they've been added to places they didn't exist before (like when you swipe to see the next article). It's still nowhere near as bad as reading a web page without an ad blocker, but it's definitely past my threshold of pain, and so I'm just using it less. I want the other things in the bundle, so they'll count me as a subscriber, but I'm using it less each day. What's particularly odd is that some articles have no ads at all. Some have the same ad repeated literally 3-5 times in a short 1,000 word article. And the ads are all trash. They seem like those awful chum-boxes you see on web sites. Who in their right mind thought this would be appealing to the typical Apple user? I mean, regardless, I have never intentionally clicked on any ad on the web in 30 years, and I'm not going to start now. It's sad because it's exposed me to regional newspapers from around the world. I live in California and see articles from newspapers in Idaho, Utah, Connecticut, upstate New York, Dallas, Miami, Chicago, etc. and even from other (mostly English-speaking) countries like Canada, England, Ireland, Isreal, and Australia. They even include some (English-language) stuff from China. I don't normally see news sources that diverse on the web because it takes more effort. But the ads just make it not worth it to continue using.
  - ziml77 4y ago
    Even with the amount of leverage they have to control third parties, media companies are too big for them to control. I’d be willing to bet they had little choice but to let the various publications run ads as they please. Those companies don’t need to be available on Apple News+ to survive. But Apple News+ has no chance without them.
  - brewdad 4y ago
    News+ silently dropped one of my preferred news sources last week. No updated articles for a week now and it's no longer listed on the news sources page on the web site. Oh well, I'm still in a free 6 month trial but no longer intend to become a paid subscriber next year.
    - 4y ago
- rekoil 4y ago
  Lol, the News app is available in like two countries.
- HL33tibCe7 4y ago
  Apple News is an unusual miss by Apple imo. It’s just not “Apple”, like everything else they do is.
nullwarp 4y ago
In the settings app they advertise iCloud if you aren't using it
- riversflow 4y ago
  > ios ads for their services. I hate ads, but for most people paying some bucks a month to make sure their 2nd brain of photos/notes/passwords/texts/etc is totally (and now privately) backed up is a worthwhile insurance policy. I think the argument that advertising iCloud plan upgrades in settings, where you’ll be pointed to if you run out of backup storage, is very benign as far as ads go. Although I do think that they should have a method to dismiss it(I don’t see this so I’m projecting that they don’t).
  - HeckFeck 4y ago
    It is much, much less obnoxious than the constant nagging to use Edge and OneDrive we see in Windows. Windows even sent a notification questioning my choice to disable location tracking.
    - andrepd 4y ago
      I don't have ads on my phone or my desktop. Why should I settle for a shittier experience A? The fact that there is an even shittier experience B is no argument.
      - HeckFeck 4y ago
        The only 'ads' I've seen from Apple have been the aforementioned iCloud invitation in Settings, there is also a prompt to sign up for iCloud when first setting up the system. That's an element of user choice - 'use our service, or don't, we won't ask twice'. Unlike MS - you have to link everything with an ID when first setting up W11, no choice unless you go to extreme workarounds. Constant nagging and manipulation thereafter. With that said, what platform are you using that has no ads at all? Presumably Linux on the desktop, which I can almost use. But unfortunately I can't use it on mobile, I have too many use cases in the personal and business world that require a 'normie' grade phone.

GeekyBear 4y ago

> Apple is positioning itself to become a major player in the advertising space Advertising does not require that you spy on each individual person. Google, for instance, used to show you ads based only on your search keywords.

judge2020 4y ago
> Google, for instance, used to show you ads based only on your search keywords. This is still true. You basically never see personalized ads on search, since getting a contextual ad for cruises when searching for programming answers probably isn't going to end up with many clicks. Instead, it's only really 'Google Ads' (AdSense on other websites) and YouTube where personalized ads result in higher CPMs. (Although Google does indeed use your search history for ad targeting.)
- GeekyBear 4y ago
  > (Although Google does indeed use your search history for ad targeting.) Yes, and it's not the advertising part that is evil. It's the part where they spy on every aspect of your life because doing so makes ad sales more profitable.
  - yamtaddle 4y ago
    Point of order: their inline-ad-placement on search results is evil. It exists to trick the unwary, including vulnerable people like the elderly, sometimes into landing on scams, thinking they're legitimate because Google presented them as top-level search results.
    - GeekyBear 4y ago
      > Point of order: their inline-ad-placement on search results is evil. I don't think that is necessarily evil, but it certainly is embarrassing for Google since Google used to make fun of competing search engines for that exact behavior back when Google was still the underdog. Spying on everyone's credit/debit card transaction data, on the other hand, is definitely evil. > as Google said in a blog post on its new service for marketers, it has partnered with “third parties” that give them access to 70 percent of all credit and debit card purchases https://adwords.googleblog.com/2017/05/powering-ads-and-analytics-innovations.html https://adwords.googleblog.com/2017/05/powering-ads-and-anal...

kergonath 4y ago

> we already know by now Apple is positioning itself to become a major player in the advertising space We don’t know that. We know that they put ads in the App Store, that’s it. I wish they did not, because it made the store even more of an unusable mess, but it really is not even in the same league as Google and Facebooks, systematic surveillance. > increased pressure to sustained growth from shareholders This sounds truthy, but is there any evidence of this? Apple is famously the company that tells rent seekers after more ROI above all to fuck off (both Jobs and Cook). > I'm advocating for an open and interoperable ecosystem of operating systems, services and applications, which is the only way to ensure sustainable customer freedom. Now that’s a real point, which deserves more than being buried after a paragraph of half-truths (and I almost entirely agree, FWIW). > It's good to be passionate, but blind devotion is dangerous, After starting a post like this, it is disappointing that you fell in the trap you warned the OP about. Being contrarian and using mis-informed tropes is not a good way of having a rational discussion. It is not being cool or clever at all.

manigandham 4y ago
Everyone in adtech knows it. Apple (and Amazon) are both rapidly growing their advertising businesses. And 30% take rate of everything from your app including later subscriptions and services is extremely rent-seeking.
- etempleton 4y ago
  I don’t think Apple is seriously considering a major play in ads and if they are I think this signals pretty hard that they won’t be doing it off the back of consumer data. It just doesn’t make sense to their business strategy. Apple is premium, ads are the antithesis of premium. Just doesn’t make business sense.
- scarface74 4y ago
  Then don’t accept subscriptions via in app purchases? Many apps don’t including Netflix and Spotify.
  - 4y ago

jeffbee 4y ago

Speaking of blind devotion to memes, is there any objective data, anywhere, of any kind, that indicates a "dwindling economy"?

fredoliveira 4y ago
I can't generalize, but could point out to the contraction of venture capital investments, for example. Does that mean "dwindling economy"? Maybe not, but it does constitute some type of signal.

dwighttk 4y ago

>we already know by now Apple is positioning itself to become a major player in the advertising space Do we though?

adra 4y ago
Subjective and rhetorical, but yes lots of people think there's too much money on the table to just eschew ads in their products. Let's be honest, Apple has a captive market, and their largest real issue is that they make too much money and can't find anything to spend it on.
- dwighttk 4y ago
  I’ll give you “lots of people think…” but not “we already know…” And “ads in their products” but not “a major player in the advertising space”
heavyset_go 4y ago
> Apple’s VP of advertising platforms Todd Teresi has been asked to bolster annual revenue into 'double digits' from about $4 billion today. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/kateoflahertyuk/2022/08/15/apple-is-about-to-launch-a-bold-new-ads-strategy-leak-suggests/?sh=5e968c29a7ee https://www.forbes.com/sites/kateoflahertyuk/2022/08/15/appl...

dontbenebby 4y ago

>Apple is positioning itself to become a major player in the advertising space and - with a dwindling economy and an increased pressure to sustained growth from shareholders - that's going to continuously encroach on our privacy guarantees for monetization purposes. Or they could sell us a rugged iPhone with a removable battery and SD card slot to extend storage but keep the proprietary OS to keep the music/movie ppl happy plus keep out malware not sent via FISA warrant, but if they did that Tim Cook might jump off the top of the donut apparently, so they keep going the way you describe.

0x457 4y ago
> Or they could sell us a rugged iPhone with a removable battery and SD card slot to extend storage but keep the proprietary OS to keep the music/movie ppl happy plus keep out malware not sent via FISA warrant, but if they did that Tim Cook might jump off the top of the donut apparently, so they keep going the way you describe. I'm sure 3.5 humans who want that will appreciate that product.
- dontbenebby 4y ago
  I was being a bit sarcastic but I think longer, removable battery rather than thin + using a charging case could have an appeal. (Same for an sd slot.) Especially paired with a form factor like the 6s for those who don’t want a phablet.

jmull 4y ago

> blind devotion is dangerous We aren’t talking about blind devotion, though, are we? We have a tangible actual important thing. Apple can’t plumb our backup data for their own profit. You want to be careful not to ignore information just because it doesn’t comport with your preconceived assumptions. At least consider weighing them against your assumptions? I’m never going to be against a cookie-based metaphor, but that doesn’t make it apt.

kornhole 4y ago

Explore Nextcloud. That is their vision and what they have implemented. I have been running on it for years since I left Goopple.

TheCapeGreek 4y ago
Nextcloud is more a backup-adjacent system. You can use it for backups, but you're on the hook for maintaining that system and keeping it secure. Maybe you have time and will to do so but most don't. It's a lot simpler than it used to be on Ubuntu (nowadays just `snap install nextcloud` and you're good to go) but that doesn't make it carefree. I ran my own Nextcloud instance for ~3 years, recently moved to Syncthing for simplicity. But that use case is more about making certain pieces of data available to all my devices, not for backups.
- kornhole 4y ago
  File backup is just one of its many capabilities. I use these apps in Nextcloud currently which sync to all my devices: News/RSS reader Cospend like Ihatemoney Contacts Calendar Music Mail Photos Talk for voice and video Bookmarks Deck/kanban board Tasks Notes Maps Polls Forms Money Health Passwords Collectives/Wiki
  - TheCapeGreek 4y ago
    I did the same with my instance. More power to you if the tools are good enough for you, but I found them too clunky to use compared to dedicated products in the space. Still, I did appreciate the breadth of apps that one could install.
    - kornhole 4y ago
      Nextcloud ecosystem is best of class rather than best of breed. Not every app is the best, but many are under active development and improving rapidly. I might have too many eggs in one basket, the the maintenance is very easy this way.

trailbits 4y ago

> It's good to be passionate, but blind devotion is dangerous Agree with you there -- the data might be encrypted on Apple's servers but that doesn't mean Apple can't scan your data on your device and report the findings back to the mother ship. They've made it increasingly difficult to know or control what system processes do.

souplesse 4y ago

Can you give examples of some of the times Apple has been caught with their hand in the cookie jar? Otherwise it seems like a bit of a false equivalence.

hackernewds 4y ago

Exactly. With the actual observation of Apple pursuing ads after supposedly shutting out Meta, I'm holding my confetti on this for a while.

esskay 4y ago

> we already know by now Apple is positioning itself to become a major player in the advertising space There's a fundimentally different approach to advertising by Apple than say, Google or Facebook. For one thing Apple isn't doing web ads. They've not got an adsense style platform and likely never will. The ad network they're building is for inside their own apps, and likely eventually for app developers to integrate into their own apps - apps only. In addition those ads are for items within their existing ecosystem, ie more apps. In terms of data collection this means they dont need the insane levels of information that Google and Facebook collect. All they need is a rough idea of your interests, which can be gained from the apps you use, and your activity in their own apps. Everyone using an Apple device must know they store your location, so that ones an obvious no brainer. They dont however need to know your browsing habbits. Would it help target better? Absolutely, but the whole aim of their ad network is to keep you inside apps, not browsing the web. If you're using Chrome, Safari, etc they cant advertise to you as again, its not a web-based ad network. As data collection goes, the way they're doing it is about as least intrusive as you can get. Theres no following you around the internet going on, which has always been the biggest issue with Google and Facebook. I'm not saying Apple is a 'saint' in all of this, but its not even close to the level of tracking other companies use.

heisenbit 4y ago
> The ad network they're building is for inside their own apps, and likely eventually for app developers to integrate into their own apps - apps only. The money generated there will affect behavior elsewhere. These walled garden profit centers always do - having disproportionate number of resources for the task and with it the ability to ignore the needs of the greater business.

jaChEWAg 4y ago

"Unfortunately that ecosystem doesn't exist yet so we're stuck with the duopoly of evil-doers..." That is no longer the case. There are projects starting to come out which are open source and building on top of AOSP like GrapheneOS, CalyxOS and a few others but those two are solid options at the moment. I am not sure why GrapheneOS doesn't get mentioned here on HN but it's seriously a wonderful project that includes privacy features not available even on iOS. They are this far ahead of the game when it comes to privacy and security. Highly recommend checking them out. https://grapheneos.org https://grapheneos.org

fsflover 4y ago
> I am not sure why GrapheneOS doesn't get mentioned here on HN Probably because with GrapheneOS you have to rely on Android phone vendors which lock down the devices more every year. In my opinion, this is not a sustanable solution in the long term. GNU/Linux phones could be more sustainable.