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1. iMessage without internet would be tricky. 2. You don’t have to backup in iCloud. Just plug your phone on a Mac or Windows computer with iTunes installed and

1. iMessage without internet would be tricky. 2. You don’t have to backup in iCloud. Just plug your phone on a Mac or Windows computer with iTunes installed and backup it locally.

lxgr 4y ago
It‘s ridiculous that I can only backup my (iOS) device to either a computer via USB (what is this, 2005?) or to the cloud. Just let me use my local Time Machine backup server! Sadly, I am convinced I'll never see that feature – it would basically remove the need for any iCloud subscription for me and thereby undermine Apple's "service" efforts too much.
- jaywalk 4y ago
  Don't they still offer local backup over Wi-Fi?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - danaris 4y ago
    They do. Parent just wants to back up directly to a Time Machine backup, rather than backing up to computer, then backing that up to TM. A reasonable desire, but clearly niche enough that it's unlikely to come to pass. (Particularly since, given what little I've seen of how Time Machine works, it would likely require some quite significant dev work on Apple's end to enable.)
- tgv 4y ago
  A Mac can also backup your phone wirelessly. TM doesn’t make much sense without the Finder’s interface.
  - lxgr 4y ago
    > A Mac can also backup your phone wirelessly. Yes, to its local storage only, which makes it completely useless to me. (I have more data on my phone than on my computer, and I can't be the only one.) > TM doesn’t make much sense without the Finder’s interface. Why? I can even already connect to the same SMB mount that holds my Mac's backup via my iPhone's "Files" app. Just let me backup to that!
    - tgv 4y ago
      The TM back-up wil include your phone’s backup too. I agree it could be better. Don’t exclude the back-up folder from TM, though.
      - lxgr 4y ago
        Yes, but I don't want that data on my Mac in the first place. It takes up almost all disk space there, completely needlessly. (Actually it doesn't – I symlinked the backup directory to an external drive, and fortunately ~iTunes~ Finder follows that. But this is something completely unrealistic to ask of an average user, in my opinion.)
        tgv 4y ago
        True. My situation is probably different: I've got a fairly large disk (1TB), and a tiny phone (16GB). I guess they prefer to sell iCloud subscriptions.
- 0xCMP 4y ago
  I think other commenters are missing your point: an iPhone should be able to back up to a "server" the same way a macbook does. I have a 24 TB NAS with Time Machine on it so the phone should be able to backup to it (over wifi, usb, whatever) the same way it does to a Mac. And this should be possible out of the box by-design (not by using Linux based tools to backup the iPhone in ways Macs do not let you do).
pathartl 4y ago
That's still not access to the data. That's limited access to data that Apple allows. I remember when Tinder stored their messages in a local unencrypted SQLite database. I wanted to save the conversations between my GF and myself, but I had to get an Android phone and extract the db manually as I couldn't do that with my iPhone at the time.
- latexr 4y ago
  One can argue the iOS approach was more secure, since someone getting hold of your iPhone wouldn’t be able to snoop on your Tinder messages. On the other hand I appreciate the hackability, and it is your data. If you’re in the EU, maybe you could have made a GDPR request to get the messages in a database. Ultimately I don’t disagree with this iOS choice because we’re the odd ones; I understand the decision to put the privacy of “regular users” above a niche developer method which could be exploited more than used in a legitimate way. It feels to me the correct solution in this case is that Tinder’s database should be encrypted on both iOS and Android and they would provide a way to export chats.
  - pathartl 4y ago
    > On the other hand I appreciate the hackability, and it is your data. I really think this is the wrong attitude and the result of boiling frogs. Having access to data on our devices should be a given. To me it makes me think of the non-touch iPods of yesteryear. Music files were obfuscated on the device by shoving into human-unfriendly folders and filenames. The argument that this was to avoid music piracy is laughable since we originally had DRM'd music for downloads. The database was proprietary and undocumented which meant the only real way to get music on the device was through iTunes. It also meant that unless your ID3 tags were really good and you went through the process to copy all the tracks off and rename them, your music was locked to your device. Even then, at least you _had_ a way of getting your music back. I'm not going to say E2EE isn't good or that the security protocols put into place for modern OS's isn't important, but imo it's eroding ownership of data and killing third party businesses. Everything has to be done through a web API now, which means your data has to exist in the cloud. This isn't good.
m463 4y ago
the backup is the "public" stuff only this wouldn't backup the apps, and app private data for example, if your phone was running myapp 1.0 and 1.1 was out, restoring might cause your phone to download myapp 1.1 Also, I think if you had 20 kindle books in the kindle app on your phone and backed it up, after restoring you would have no books. You would have to redownload them all. (strangely, I wonder if you have icloud backups, do these kinds of thing count against your storage space?)

1. iMessage without internet would be tricky. 2. You don’t have to backup in iCloud. Just plug your phone on a Mac or Windows computer with iTunes installed and backup it locally.

lxgr 4y ago

It‘s ridiculous that I can only backup my (iOS) device to either a computer via USB (what is this, 2005?) or to the cloud. Just let me use my local Time Machine backup server! Sadly, I am convinced I'll never see that feature – it would basically remove the need for any iCloud subscription for me and thereby undermine Apple's "service" efforts too much.

jaywalk 4y ago
Don't they still offer local backup over Wi-Fi?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- danaris 4y ago
  They do. Parent just wants to back up directly to a Time Machine backup, rather than backing up to computer, then backing that up to TM. A reasonable desire, but clearly niche enough that it's unlikely to come to pass. (Particularly since, given what little I've seen of how Time Machine works, it would likely require some quite significant dev work on Apple's end to enable.)
tgv 4y ago
A Mac can also backup your phone wirelessly. TM doesn’t make much sense without the Finder’s interface.
- lxgr 4y ago
  > A Mac can also backup your phone wirelessly. Yes, to its local storage only, which makes it completely useless to me. (I have more data on my phone than on my computer, and I can't be the only one.) > TM doesn’t make much sense without the Finder’s interface. Why? I can even already connect to the same SMB mount that holds my Mac's backup via my iPhone's "Files" app. Just let me backup to that!
  - tgv 4y ago
    The TM back-up wil include your phone’s backup too. I agree it could be better. Don’t exclude the back-up folder from TM, though.
    - lxgr 4y ago
      Yes, but I don't want that data on my Mac in the first place. It takes up almost all disk space there, completely needlessly. (Actually it doesn't – I symlinked the backup directory to an external drive, and fortunately ~iTunes~ Finder follows that. But this is something completely unrealistic to ask of an average user, in my opinion.)
      - tgv 4y ago
        True. My situation is probably different: I've got a fairly large disk (1TB), and a tiny phone (16GB). I guess they prefer to sell iCloud subscriptions.
0xCMP 4y ago
I think other commenters are missing your point: an iPhone should be able to back up to a "server" the same way a macbook does. I have a 24 TB NAS with Time Machine on it so the phone should be able to backup to it (over wifi, usb, whatever) the same way it does to a Mac. And this should be possible out of the box by-design (not by using Linux based tools to backup the iPhone in ways Macs do not let you do).

pathartl 4y ago

That's still not access to the data. That's limited access to data that Apple allows. I remember when Tinder stored their messages in a local unencrypted SQLite database. I wanted to save the conversations between my GF and myself, but I had to get an Android phone and extract the db manually as I couldn't do that with my iPhone at the time.

latexr 4y ago
One can argue the iOS approach was more secure, since someone getting hold of your iPhone wouldn’t be able to snoop on your Tinder messages. On the other hand I appreciate the hackability, and it is your data. If you’re in the EU, maybe you could have made a GDPR request to get the messages in a database. Ultimately I don’t disagree with this iOS choice because we’re the odd ones; I understand the decision to put the privacy of “regular users” above a niche developer method which could be exploited more than used in a legitimate way. It feels to me the correct solution in this case is that Tinder’s database should be encrypted on both iOS and Android and they would provide a way to export chats.
- pathartl 4y ago
  > On the other hand I appreciate the hackability, and it is your data. I really think this is the wrong attitude and the result of boiling frogs. Having access to data on our devices should be a given. To me it makes me think of the non-touch iPods of yesteryear. Music files were obfuscated on the device by shoving into human-unfriendly folders and filenames. The argument that this was to avoid music piracy is laughable since we originally had DRM'd music for downloads. The database was proprietary and undocumented which meant the only real way to get music on the device was through iTunes. It also meant that unless your ID3 tags were really good and you went through the process to copy all the tracks off and rename them, your music was locked to your device. Even then, at least you _had_ a way of getting your music back. I'm not going to say E2EE isn't good or that the security protocols put into place for modern OS's isn't important, but imo it's eroding ownership of data and killing third party businesses. Everything has to be done through a web API now, which means your data has to exist in the cloud. This isn't good.

m463 4y ago

the backup is the "public" stuff only this wouldn't backup the apps, and app private data for example, if your phone was running myapp 1.0 and 1.1 was out, restoring might cause your phone to download myapp 1.1 Also, I think if you had 20 kindle books in the kindle app on your phone and backed it up, after restoring you would have no books. You would have to redownload them all. (strangely, I wonder if you have icloud backups, do these kinds of thing count against your storage space?)