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This is the equivalent to "why does modern music suck" (said by every generation of the next generation's music) Scott Alexander posted something similar http

This is the equivalent to "why does modern music suck" (said by every generation of the next generation's music) Scott Alexander posted something similar https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/whither-tartaria https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/whither-tartaria And the response he got was arguably predictable..., others didn't agree that modern architecture is ugly. Sure there are some ugly buildings. But, for example, for me. I went to some 1929 building that I'm sure this author and Scott would find beautiful https://www.450sutter.com/ https://www.450sutter.com/ And it is. But it's arguably NOT functional. On the 25th floor the view would be incredible but the windows are tiny and so unless you walk directly up to the window you can't see the view. In pretty much any modern building the view would be front and center, full floor to ceiling, wall to wall windows. I prefer that modern style. check out an old museum and a modern one. The modern one will have all kinds of amazing affordances. Places decided to highlight the view, places decide to give a sense of space, places designed for eating in unique space. I'd much rather go to one of these https://design-milk.com/10-modern-museums-youll-definitely-want-to-visit/ https://design-milk.com/10-modern-museums-youll-definitely-w... Than one of these https://artsandculture.google.com/story/the-oldest-museums-around-the-world/RgURWUHwa_fKSA https://artsandculture.google.com/story/the-oldest-museums-a... Even if the contents was the same.

booleandilemma 4y ago
This is the equivalent to "why does modern music suck" (said by every generation of the next generation's music) At first I agreed with you but then I clicked the submission article and saw those ugly mouse statue things.
- pizzalife 4y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaws Lots of people seem to enjoy those "ugly mouse statue things".
  - booleandilemma 4y ago
    Lots of people enjoy those ugly monkey NFTs too, I don't know what to tell you <shrug>
    - pizzalife 4y ago
      Yes, this thread is morphing into "what is art"? I don't know.
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaws > Lots of people seem to enjoy those "ugly mouse statue things". Sorry, they're still crap. Seriously, taking the MTV VMA statue and robotically slapping his characters head on it? I recently watched the Nathan For You episode "Dumb Starbucks" and those statutes remind me the lazy, deliberately terrible parodies he displayed at an art gallery to establish his bona fides as a "parody artist." I can't find the YouTube clip of it, but here are some screenshots: https://www.vulture.com/2015/11/test-your-logos-with-nathan-for-yous-quiz.html https://www.vulture.com/2015/11/test-your-logos-with-nathan-... https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3844774/mediaviewer/rm3413413889/?ref_=tt_md_1 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3844774/mediaviewer/rm341341388... And here's him singing some equally-terrible parody songs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I71IJOym2ic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I71IJOym2ic.
    - pizzalife 4y ago
      What I'm trying to say is that anyone is free to say they're crap, but that is not an objective opinion. "Perception is subjective" - Sol LeWitt
      - tablespoon 4y ago
        > What I'm trying to say is that anyone is free to say they're crap, but that is not an objective opinion. Heh. As a total aside, "objective opinion" is the kind of oxymoron that fits HN "rationalism" oh so well.
        pizzalife 4y ago
        Yeah, they don't exist. But the article is written in the style of someone who thinks their opinion about aesthetics is objective.
unsupp0rted 4y ago
Demonstrably, modern music does suck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVME_l4IwII https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVME_l4IwII
- jcotton42 4y ago
  I'd watch this response video to that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfNdps0daF8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfNdps0daF8
pizzalife 4y ago
I had a hard time taking this article seriously after seeing the first picture with the caption "new ugliness". The picture depicts art by KAWS, arguably a very successful modern artist - someone must think what he is doing is worthwhile. I personally don't like his art, but saying it's "ugly" is rather subjective..
- johntb86 4y ago
  Doesn't that assume that people only think beautiful art is "worthwhile"? People - in particular the sort of people who deeply care about art - may see value in ugly art, if the ugliness helps achieve the goals of the artwork.
  - pizzalife 4y ago
    This is also true.
- smsm42 4y ago
  You're saying it as somehow "subjective" is bad. Of course it's subjective, and the whole point it a lot of modern art is subjectively perceived by most people as ugly, while being praised and promoted by "experts".
  - pizzalife 4y ago
    I didn't mean that subjective is bad, but the way the article is written makes it sound like the author thinks there can be an objective view of what constitutes a good aesthetic. Also, I'm not sure I agree that "most" people think modern art is ugly. Haven't seen any statistics to indicate that.
  - teawrecks 4y ago
    The article opens with: "WE LIVE IN UNDENIABLY UGLY TIMES." Doesn't sound like they're going for subjective.
    - smsm42 4y ago
SoftTalker 4y ago
Modern (popular) music sucks because it's not human. It's produced by software, quantized, gridded, autotuned, copy/pasted, and though the result is technically perfect, it isn't human. Modern architecture is the same. It's copy/paste design, assembled by software, the human element is gone. When buildings were designed by artists on paper there was no avoiding the designer's humanity and creativity being infused into the design. Today it's just lego blocks. You see the same buildings in every city you visit.
- oblio 4y ago
  I guess you managed to miss their key point about classic design: > And it is. But it's arguably NOT functional.
- antiterra 4y ago
  Music produced by software that’s quantized and gridded has been some of my favorite stuff for decades and listening to it does the same thing any recorded music can do such: remind me of something, occasionally teach me something new, be a tool for growth or mourning or comfort. Something being virtuousic or analog or raw doesn’t necessarily make it good. Simplicity or rigidness is not inherently bad. sometimes you want Raphael instead of Bosch. You may want The Knife instead of Fleetwood Mac, or Parry Grip instead of Paganini. There was a time that the pinnacle of stereotypically bad music was Girl From Ipanema on an elevator. Except it’s a great song, even played for muzak. Compound that with how the barriers around genre have gotten so much more flexible that you can chart with a Nine Inch Nails + Billy Ray Cyrus + Hip Hop song, and it kinda seems like we’re in a golden age.
  - torotonnato 4y ago
    Haha speaking of barriers and Nine Inch Nails: have you heard the cover of "Head like an hole" by an improbable (but good!) Miley Cyrus? It was made for an episode of Black Mirror.
    - antiterra 4y ago
      Yeah. Miley is actually a pretty good rock vocalist that got pigeonholed into pop and had a rebellious stage to break out of it.

booleandilemma 4y ago

This is the equivalent to "why does modern music suck" (said by every generation of the next generation's music) At first I agreed with you but then I clicked the submission article and saw those ugly mouse statue things.

pizzalife 4y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaws Lots of people seem to enjoy those "ugly mouse statue things".
- booleandilemma 4y ago
  Lots of people enjoy those ugly monkey NFTs too, I don't know what to tell you <shrug>
  - pizzalife 4y ago
    Yes, this thread is morphing into "what is art"? I don't know.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaws > Lots of people seem to enjoy those "ugly mouse statue things". Sorry, they're still crap. Seriously, taking the MTV VMA statue and robotically slapping his characters head on it? I recently watched the Nathan For You episode "Dumb Starbucks" and those statutes remind me the lazy, deliberately terrible parodies he displayed at an art gallery to establish his bona fides as a "parody artist." I can't find the YouTube clip of it, but here are some screenshots: https://www.vulture.com/2015/11/test-your-logos-with-nathan-for-yous-quiz.html https://www.vulture.com/2015/11/test-your-logos-with-nathan-... https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3844774/mediaviewer/rm3413413889/?ref_=tt_md_1 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3844774/mediaviewer/rm341341388... And here's him singing some equally-terrible parody songs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I71IJOym2ic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I71IJOym2ic.
  - pizzalife 4y ago
    What I'm trying to say is that anyone is free to say they're crap, but that is not an objective opinion. "Perception is subjective" - Sol LeWitt
    - tablespoon 4y ago
      > What I'm trying to say is that anyone is free to say they're crap, but that is not an objective opinion. Heh. As a total aside, "objective opinion" is the kind of oxymoron that fits HN "rationalism" oh so well.
      - pizzalife 4y ago
        Yeah, they don't exist. But the article is written in the style of someone who thinks their opinion about aesthetics is objective.

unsupp0rted 4y ago

Demonstrably, modern music does suck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVME_l4IwII https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVME_l4IwII

jcotton42 4y ago
I'd watch this response video to that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfNdps0daF8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfNdps0daF8

pizzalife 4y ago

I had a hard time taking this article seriously after seeing the first picture with the caption "new ugliness". The picture depicts art by KAWS, arguably a very successful modern artist - someone must think what he is doing is worthwhile. I personally don't like his art, but saying it's "ugly" is rather subjective..

johntb86 4y ago
Doesn't that assume that people only think beautiful art is "worthwhile"? People - in particular the sort of people who deeply care about art - may see value in ugly art, if the ugliness helps achieve the goals of the artwork.
- pizzalife 4y ago
  This is also true.
smsm42 4y ago
You're saying it as somehow "subjective" is bad. Of course it's subjective, and the whole point it a lot of modern art is subjectively perceived by most people as ugly, while being praised and promoted by "experts".
- pizzalife 4y ago
  I didn't mean that subjective is bad, but the way the article is written makes it sound like the author thinks there can be an objective view of what constitutes a good aesthetic. Also, I'm not sure I agree that "most" people think modern art is ugly. Haven't seen any statistics to indicate that.
- teawrecks 4y ago
  The article opens with: "WE LIVE IN UNDENIABLY UGLY TIMES." Doesn't sound like they're going for subjective.
  - smsm42 4y ago

SoftTalker 4y ago

Modern (popular) music sucks because it's not human. It's produced by software, quantized, gridded, autotuned, copy/pasted, and though the result is technically perfect, it isn't human. Modern architecture is the same. It's copy/paste design, assembled by software, the human element is gone. When buildings were designed by artists on paper there was no avoiding the designer's humanity and creativity being infused into the design. Today it's just lego blocks. You see the same buildings in every city you visit.

oblio 4y ago
I guess you managed to miss their key point about classic design: > And it is. But it's arguably NOT functional.
antiterra 4y ago
Music produced by software that’s quantized and gridded has been some of my favorite stuff for decades and listening to it does the same thing any recorded music can do such: remind me of something, occasionally teach me something new, be a tool for growth or mourning or comfort. Something being virtuousic or analog or raw doesn’t necessarily make it good. Simplicity or rigidness is not inherently bad. sometimes you want Raphael instead of Bosch. You may want The Knife instead of Fleetwood Mac, or Parry Grip instead of Paganini. There was a time that the pinnacle of stereotypically bad music was Girl From Ipanema on an elevator. Except it’s a great song, even played for muzak. Compound that with how the barriers around genre have gotten so much more flexible that you can chart with a Nine Inch Nails + Billy Ray Cyrus + Hip Hop song, and it kinda seems like we’re in a golden age.
- torotonnato 4y ago
  Haha speaking of barriers and Nine Inch Nails: have you heard the cover of "Head like an hole" by an improbable (but good!) Miley Cyrus? It was made for an episode of Black Mirror.
  - antiterra 4y ago
    Yeah. Miley is actually a pretty good rock vocalist that got pigeonholed into pop and had a rebellious stage to break out of it.