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He basically announced his ‘permanent-rest’ via twitter. So sad but grounding for all of us to remember that there are things way more important past the marve

He basically announced his ‘permanent-rest’ via twitter. So sad but grounding for all of us to remember that there are things way more important past the marvelous inventions we can code or make. For learning purposes, anyone knows what was his major cause of frustration?

Mikeb85 4y ago
> For learning purposes, anyone knows what was his major cause of frustration? Suicide isn't because of frustration. Everyone has frustrations, most don't kill themselves because of it.
- OJFord 4y ago
  I do think it's interesting that it's so widely stigmatised (illegal even) though: like we've collectively decided life is meaningful and must be lived to the best of your ability, deciding there's nothing in it for you and you don't want to take part is not (with very niche old-age && ill-health exception) allowed. Weird, when you step back and think about it isn't it? If you're agnostic/atheist at least.
  - rob74 4y ago
    I guess it's the same as with the death penalty: it's a decision that's very permanent and irrevocable. Someone may be convinced that "there's nothing in it for them" now, but are you really sure they would feel the same in a few months or a few years?
    - WhackyIdeas 4y ago
      But if you have been feeling that way for many years, with non-stop feelings of dread, it’s hard to see things getting any better.
      - brigandish 4y ago
        Lack of hope is the real killer, that's why it's so important to give a depressed person hope. Not optimism, hope.
        tasuki 4y ago
        > Not optimism, hope. What is the difference?
        Mikeb85 4y ago
        Optimism is trying to convince yourself things are better than they are, hope is the idea that things can actually get better.
        tasuki 4y ago
        Thanks. By that definition, optimism is just a bad thing.
        brigandish 4y ago
        Optimism provides a useful safeguard against depression in the first place. It's called the optimism bias. If people think too realistically (or, perhaps it's better to say glumly because it may still not be realistic even if more realistic) without regular doses of optimism that realism may turn into longer periods of despondency, and we know where that leads. As I recall, around 80% of people have the optimism bias. The rest are prone to depression.
        brigandish 4y ago
        Well put. I often see people who are not depressed who use optimism towards depressed people, because optimism will cancel out an ephemeral despondency as it doesn’t really require evidence or reasoning beyond “it’ll get better”. Depression is too well bunkered in for something like that.
        WhackyIdeas 4y ago
  - starkd 4y ago
    Murdering your self is still murder. There are other victims besides the person committing it. The reason why it is a taboo subject is because it is contagious in a way. When the idea is broadcast at large, there is an increasing likelihood that people on the edge will follow through. Suicide should not be romanticized or indulged.
    - tasuki 4y ago
      You do raise valid points. On the other hand, Chris Seaton was apparently done with it. I think that's his prerogative, and he handled it gracefully.
  - Lio 4y ago
    I would speculate that the societal stigmatisation of suicide is a form of social "guard-rails" that might keep someone from stepping to far in the wrong direction during a moment of weakness. It might be the last thing that saves them when they are not in their right mind and have lost all hope and perspective. In that moment anything that can be done to protect them should be done because there is always hope, even if you can't see it right now. Things do change.
    - themaninthedark 4y ago
      One of the things I often hear said about people who attempt suicide but fail by jumping is that they have a moment of clarity on the way down that their problems are not a big deal and are solvable except the current one of imminent death. Not sure if this is true in all cases and what the outcome for these people is after time passes, do they still feel depressed or are things better for them. But, if that is the general experience, then it makes sense for society to stigmatize the action.
      - jvm___ 4y ago
        Bojack horseman has a poignant poem entitled The View from halfway down. The View from Halfway Down The weak breeze whispers nothing The water screams sublime His feet shift, teeter-totter Deep breath, stand back, it’s time Toes untouch the overpass Soon he’s water bound Eyes locked shut but peek to see The view from halfway down A little wind, a summer sun A river rich and regal A flood of fond endorphins Brings a calm that knows no equal You’re flying now You see things much more clear than from the ground It’s all okay, it would be Were you not now halfway down Thrash to break from gravity What now could slow the drop All I’d give for toes to touch The safety back at top But this is it, the deed is done Silence drowns the sound Before I leaped I should’ve seen The view from halfway down I really should’ve thought about The view from halfway down I wish I could’ve known about The view from halfway down
        jacquesm 4y ago
        Gooseflesh.
  - SoftTalker 4y ago
    I wouldn't say I agree but can understand the point of view. I think a lot of people would feel differently about someone who takes his own life because of a terminal illness such as cancer, where it's seen as a way to end up in the same place while avoiding a lot of pain and suffering. "Death with dignity." So why don't we feel the same way about someone with painful, debilitating depression? We don't really understand how to cure depression. We have some drugs that help some people, analagous to what narcotics do for people in physical pain. But we don't understand how to cure depression, as we don't understand how to cure cancer. Maybe someday we will, but what does that do for the people suffering today, who just want a way out?
- vintermann 4y ago
  Frustration is just a word. It's maybe not the optimal word for it, but we understand what's meant: the situations on the inside and outside that made him consider such a choice. Keep in mind many people on HN (incl. me) don't even speak English as a first language.
- throw10920 4y ago
  This comment exemplifies a pattern of rather useless comments that I've seen a lot of online recently, that are analogous to "contradiction - stating the opposing case with little or no evidence" on the argument pyramid: when a commentator X states a thing, commentator Y states that that thing isn't true, with no supporting evidence, but more importantly no additional value or elaboration added - just saying "that's wrong" without explaining why, or saying what is actually the case. For instance, here, value would be added by stating what are the actual causes of suicide - or even adding research that supports your point even if you don't want to talk about what the actual causes are.
  - Mikeb85 4y ago
    Fair enough, but most people do know the actual cause... Namely mental illness or depression.
    - dctoedt 4y ago
      And sadly, we know so ... freaking ... little about how the brain works.
tuyiown 4y ago
Suicide is very personal, should be treated as an extremely complex issue that its uniqueness for each cannot be expressed in details correct enough to respect the regretted. I know you just want to know if any major points could stand out to bring some understanding, and they are probably some, but it's important to treat it as a might be relavant, but always small, piece of a the vastness of one's mind can be.
- theGnuMe 4y ago
  >Suicide is very personal, should be treated as an extremely complex issue that its uniqueness for each cannot be expressed in details correct enough to respect the regretted. Can you elaborate on what you mean here? Are you saying that every suicide is unique and out of respect for the dead we should not try to understand it?
  - tuyiown 4y ago
    It's mostly about the relationship about the understanding than the understanding itself. You can try to understand, but not believe you understand, the deceased will never be there to correct you if you're wrong.
- freedomben 4y ago
  I would have agreed fully with you for most of my life, but having now lost half a dozen friends to suicide, I think we're making a big mistake by not talking about it honestly and openly. Not only is it much harder for the friends/loved ones who are left in the dark about what happened, but it misses opportunities for learning and understanding. Most people who have never been ready to kill themselves have no idea what it's like, the hopelessness, the weariness, and worst of all the lies your mind tells you. I do insist on being classy and respectful, particularly for the family members, but I wish as a society we would talk openly and honestly about these issues instead of high opacity implications.
  - wnolens 4y ago
    Shit, half a dozen? I'm so sorry. Were you able to learn anything about their internal state prior?

Mikeb85 4y ago

> For learning purposes, anyone knows what was his major cause of frustration? Suicide isn't because of frustration. Everyone has frustrations, most don't kill themselves because of it.

OJFord 4y ago
I do think it's interesting that it's so widely stigmatised (illegal even) though: like we've collectively decided life is meaningful and must be lived to the best of your ability, deciding there's nothing in it for you and you don't want to take part is not (with very niche old-age && ill-health exception) allowed. Weird, when you step back and think about it isn't it? If you're agnostic/atheist at least.
- rob74 4y ago
  I guess it's the same as with the death penalty: it's a decision that's very permanent and irrevocable. Someone may be convinced that "there's nothing in it for them" now, but are you really sure they would feel the same in a few months or a few years?
  - WhackyIdeas 4y ago
    But if you have been feeling that way for many years, with non-stop feelings of dread, it’s hard to see things getting any better.
    - brigandish 4y ago
      Lack of hope is the real killer, that's why it's so important to give a depressed person hope. Not optimism, hope.
      - tasuki 4y ago
        > Not optimism, hope. What is the difference?
        Mikeb85 4y ago
        Optimism is trying to convince yourself things are better than they are, hope is the idea that things can actually get better.
        tasuki 4y ago
        Thanks. By that definition, optimism is just a bad thing.
        brigandish 4y ago
        Optimism provides a useful safeguard against depression in the first place. It's called the optimism bias. If people think too realistically (or, perhaps it's better to say glumly because it may still not be realistic even if more realistic) without regular doses of optimism that realism may turn into longer periods of despondency, and we know where that leads. As I recall, around 80% of people have the optimism bias. The rest are prone to depression.
        brigandish 4y ago
        Well put. I often see people who are not depressed who use optimism towards depressed people, because optimism will cancel out an ephemeral despondency as it doesn’t really require evidence or reasoning beyond “it’ll get better”. Depression is too well bunkered in for something like that.
      - WhackyIdeas 4y ago
- starkd 4y ago
  Murdering your self is still murder. There are other victims besides the person committing it. The reason why it is a taboo subject is because it is contagious in a way. When the idea is broadcast at large, there is an increasing likelihood that people on the edge will follow through. Suicide should not be romanticized or indulged.
  - tasuki 4y ago
    You do raise valid points. On the other hand, Chris Seaton was apparently done with it. I think that's his prerogative, and he handled it gracefully.
- Lio 4y ago
  I would speculate that the societal stigmatisation of suicide is a form of social "guard-rails" that might keep someone from stepping to far in the wrong direction during a moment of weakness. It might be the last thing that saves them when they are not in their right mind and have lost all hope and perspective. In that moment anything that can be done to protect them should be done because there is always hope, even if you can't see it right now. Things do change.
  - themaninthedark 4y ago
    One of the things I often hear said about people who attempt suicide but fail by jumping is that they have a moment of clarity on the way down that their problems are not a big deal and are solvable except the current one of imminent death. Not sure if this is true in all cases and what the outcome for these people is after time passes, do they still feel depressed or are things better for them. But, if that is the general experience, then it makes sense for society to stigmatize the action.
    - jvm___ 4y ago
      Bojack horseman has a poignant poem entitled The View from halfway down. The View from Halfway Down The weak breeze whispers nothing The water screams sublime His feet shift, teeter-totter Deep breath, stand back, it’s time Toes untouch the overpass Soon he’s water bound Eyes locked shut but peek to see The view from halfway down A little wind, a summer sun A river rich and regal A flood of fond endorphins Brings a calm that knows no equal You’re flying now You see things much more clear than from the ground It’s all okay, it would be Were you not now halfway down Thrash to break from gravity What now could slow the drop All I’d give for toes to touch The safety back at top But this is it, the deed is done Silence drowns the sound Before I leaped I should’ve seen The view from halfway down I really should’ve thought about The view from halfway down I wish I could’ve known about The view from halfway down
      - jacquesm 4y ago
        Gooseflesh.
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  I wouldn't say I agree but can understand the point of view. I think a lot of people would feel differently about someone who takes his own life because of a terminal illness such as cancer, where it's seen as a way to end up in the same place while avoiding a lot of pain and suffering. "Death with dignity." So why don't we feel the same way about someone with painful, debilitating depression? We don't really understand how to cure depression. We have some drugs that help some people, analagous to what narcotics do for people in physical pain. But we don't understand how to cure depression, as we don't understand how to cure cancer. Maybe someday we will, but what does that do for the people suffering today, who just want a way out?
vintermann 4y ago
Frustration is just a word. It's maybe not the optimal word for it, but we understand what's meant: the situations on the inside and outside that made him consider such a choice. Keep in mind many people on HN (incl. me) don't even speak English as a first language.
throw10920 4y ago
This comment exemplifies a pattern of rather useless comments that I've seen a lot of online recently, that are analogous to "contradiction - stating the opposing case with little or no evidence" on the argument pyramid: when a commentator X states a thing, commentator Y states that that thing isn't true, with no supporting evidence, but more importantly no additional value or elaboration added - just saying "that's wrong" without explaining why, or saying what is actually the case. For instance, here, value would be added by stating what are the actual causes of suicide - or even adding research that supports your point even if you don't want to talk about what the actual causes are.
- Mikeb85 4y ago
  Fair enough, but most people do know the actual cause... Namely mental illness or depression.
  - dctoedt 4y ago
    And sadly, we know so ... freaking ... little about how the brain works.

tuyiown 4y ago

Suicide is very personal, should be treated as an extremely complex issue that its uniqueness for each cannot be expressed in details correct enough to respect the regretted. I know you just want to know if any major points could stand out to bring some understanding, and they are probably some, but it's important to treat it as a might be relavant, but always small, piece of a the vastness of one's mind can be.

theGnuMe 4y ago
>Suicide is very personal, should be treated as an extremely complex issue that its uniqueness for each cannot be expressed in details correct enough to respect the regretted. Can you elaborate on what you mean here? Are you saying that every suicide is unique and out of respect for the dead we should not try to understand it?
- tuyiown 4y ago
  It's mostly about the relationship about the understanding than the understanding itself. You can try to understand, but not believe you understand, the deceased will never be there to correct you if you're wrong.
freedomben 4y ago
I would have agreed fully with you for most of my life, but having now lost half a dozen friends to suicide, I think we're making a big mistake by not talking about it honestly and openly. Not only is it much harder for the friends/loved ones who are left in the dark about what happened, but it misses opportunities for learning and understanding. Most people who have never been ready to kill themselves have no idea what it's like, the hopelessness, the weariness, and worst of all the lies your mind tells you. I do insist on being classy and respectful, particularly for the family members, but I wish as a society we would talk openly and honestly about these issues instead of high opacity implications.
- wnolens 4y ago
  Shit, half a dozen? I'm so sorry. Were you able to learn anything about their internal state prior?