19 ms·

Driving Amazon’s electric delivery vehicle: Rivian EDV [video]

184 points by bane 4y ago

Kukumber 4y ago
Software is always the problem: https://youtu.be/3TFz1xqp3us?t=175 https://youtu.be/3TFz1xqp3us?t=175 When will they learn?
nomel 4y ago
Is that a camera in the middle of the left A pillar there (1:39)? It looks like it's maybe blinking IR.
thwayunion 4y ago
The comments on this video are wild.
- seandoe 4y ago
  errr by wild you mean grossly domesticated.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
nomel 4y ago
Is it safe to say that this video was, at minimum, approved by the Amazon PR department?
- mertd 4y ago
  He has a lot of videos about delivering for Amazon on his YT channel. Some are a year old. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNcYFjn42AQIX76shX1qWeU-3EQCeUKSP https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNcYFjn42AQIX76shX1qW...
  - nomel 4y ago
    I think the simplest explanation is that approval has happened for previous videos, as well, especially since the more videos, the less likely approval was not obtained.
- bagels 4y ago
  I hope so, but doubt it. It is an unfortunate reality that people get fired for posting innocuous stuff like this on the internet.
- judge2020 4y ago
  Given not all packages are blurred all the time, and you can see the map at all, makes me think this is just him using the RPV (Rivian Prime Van) during his actual job tasks; i'd imagine Amazon would want all images of his list of stops to be blurred, since it's probably quite easy to pinpoint customer addresses via that map at 6:01. The reason it's a light load is explained in the description, so I doubt it was even specifically picked out for review: > Why do I only have like 20 packages? On this particular day I was an extra driver, so I didn’t have a full route of my own.
cagenut 4y ago
can't wait till these chassis start getting the RV treatment
- winkeyless 4y ago
  More space than the VW ID Buzz. Interesting… Hope the battery won’t catch fire cuz someone will be sleeping in it
  - zaroth 4y ago
    Do you say “hope the gas tank won’t explode” anytime someone sleeps in an ICE car? Are you aware that battery igniting while car parked is exceedingly rare?
    - colordrops 4y ago
      Do you always convey ideas using condescending questions? I make this mistake a lot, so don't feel too offended.
      - theshrike79 4y ago
        Only when the presented premise is clearly stupid and based on 100% faulty data. "OMG what about battery fires!" is so worn out in the EV discussions I don't bother to be nice when rebutting it.
        Thlom 4y ago
        Hehe, there was a fire in a parking garage next to an airport in Norway a few years ago which basically destroyed the garage and all cars inside. People were really quick to blame it on an EV igniting and raving about how EV's should be banned from parking garages and on and on for days until investigation showed the fire started in a diesel car. (Granted, the many EV's in there made the fire much harder for fire fighters to put out)
        4y ago
bradleybuda 4y ago
It is stereotypically Amazon to spend tens- or hundreds-of-millions to develop a fully-integrated next generation truck and then try to save ten bucks by putting the slowest possible CPU behind the head unit / infotainment system.
- judge2020 4y ago
  Even the R1T had initial impressions that the infotainment wasn't exactly super optimized. I think it's been improved but there's a reason Tesla can get away with such a barebones and average quality interior.
- zlsa 4y ago
  Using a more powerful computer won't really change development costs all that much; but it could seriously affect BOM costs. Amazon wants to buy absurd numbers of this, so it's not unreasonable that they've tried to heavily cut costs in the BOM. (Also what the other commenter said.)
  - Majromax 4y ago
    I think that's a false economy. Suppose a better infotainment system saves even one minute of time per day. Over a 300 day work-year, that's five hours of driver-work, valued on the order of $100 (at $20/hr). All other things being equal, $100 would go a long way in an infotainment BOM. If this isn't being done for cost reasons, I expect it might be a result of bulk ordering. Rivian isn't a large car manufacturer, so it might not be ordering custom equipment from the manufacturers. If they have to compromise by taking an infotainment package wholesale from existing mass-production lines, then maybe there's no "$100-equivalent" upgrade on the market.
- alx__ 4y ago
  I blame bean counters for that kind of nonsense
- TheDong 4y ago
  If working in the modern software industry has taught me anything, it's that developers can figure out how to write slow janky UIs no matter how powerful the processor. I'd go so far as to say there's an inverse correlation here. My 100Mhz desktop had a more responsive UI than any computer I've used in the last 5 years. Text editing on that 100Mhz computer felt responsive, typing characters had them appear on the screen instantly, I could copy+paste 100s of lines of text without a problem. Now, I load notion.so on a 4Ghz cpu, and typing is sluggish, scrolling has severe lag, and pasting 100 lines of text sometimes takes several seconds. All this is me saying that I'm more inclined to blame software than to blame the hardware for UI lag.
adrianmonk 4y ago
I didn't realize Topher Grace was having that much trouble finding work. Should have invested his That 70s Show earnings better.
- gnicholas 4y ago
  Didn’t you see Ocean’s Eleven? He undoubtedly lost it all card tables (“all red!”).
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
tjoff 4y ago
Why do people like home delivery? (or, does anyone, really?) It is such a pain in the ass. I'd pay good money NOT to have it delivered to my home, but often enough you don't know about it when you order it. Here most will pass several small postal-services (these are your closest gas station or small grocery store or ) on their way to/from work every single day. Even if I'm gonna be home I'd rather take the three minute walk than being interrupted when I'm in the shower or be worried that my short errand is going to make me miss my package. It of course makes it worse that I live in an apartment, but it is not like a house would make it much better. The whole concept that we (well, the US at least) have porch pirates is just wild. Why? Such unimaginable waste driving around to every single home needing delivery. Especially when it is such a damn hassle trying to reroute the package to your workplace if you even have that luxury. If you are old/sick, fine. Or certain kinds of goods such as grocery deliveries. But for the love of god, why would anyone think it is desirable for it to be the norm? How can this even be a thing?
- theshrike79 4y ago
  I like my home, I don't like other people or crowds. I pay extra for home delivery so I can avoid people and crowds.
  - tjoff 4y ago
    You wouldn't ever need to be in a crowd. Avoid people, fine, but I don't think that would be the norm. A lot of places have boxes where you just enter a code. Wouldn't ever need to be closer than 20 meters to a living soul.
    - braingenious 4y ago
      >You wouldn't ever need to be in a crowd. Have you been inside of a grocery store in the week before Thanksgiving or Christmas?
      - tjoff 4y ago
        The local one? It will be fine. The big one? No thanks but they are a little bit off anyway so postal services typically don't go there (and if so I'd just pick a different spot).
graycat 4y ago
A basic, simple point on Web page user interface design: (1) Easily 1+ billion computer users understand the HTML controls. (2) Initially maybe only the front end developer understands the novel controls they develop with JavaScript. Lesson: Use JavaScript where necessary or where it really helps a lot and otherwise stay with just the HTML controls.
_xnmw 4y ago
I fail to see the ROI / advantage Amazon gets out of building highly specialized delivery vehicles. Sure, they look pretty and branded, but the actual task of moving boxes of stuff is fulfilled perfectly well by a Ford Transit + companion app. Maybe there's a slight efficiency improvement, but seems nowhere near the massive investment + maintenance required for a specialized truck.
- t3rabytes 4y ago
  The same could be asked about the USPS designs custom vehicles, or why UPS has special package cars with changes from a default box van. The other piece that I think is important and not regarded high enough is that delivering for Amazon is all-in-all a rough job physically and mentally (considering that Amazon is at the height of metrics-driven companies and will shit on you for missing your number by 1), so there is an incredibly high chance that they will use these to boost morale (and already are -- Amazon has different tiers of vans internally that drivers work through as they progress at the company [with the new Rivian vehicles being at the top of the tier list], so surely it's being used as some incentive -- "hey check out this new electric van that we want you to drive, it has heated seats and steering wheel ;)". Plus, this is the type of company who cares about 1-2% optimization long-term because of scale. Maybe the lower step of the Rivian van causes a 3% decrease in hip-originated workers compensation claims, idk. Also EVs are so much cheaper to run than gasoline delivery vehicles, especially if your routes are stop and go -- that's worse-case for a gas engine, but EVs love it because of regenerative braking.
- garrettgrimsley 4y ago
  >the actual task of moving boxes of stuff is fulfilled perfectly well by a Ford Transit Former UPS driver here. Our performance was measured in SPORH, or Stops Per On Road Hour. Supervisors will touch base with you and quote metrics like how many seconds it took you to go from the turning off the vehicle to entering the cargo area, or from pressing the key fob to enable the ignition switch to pulling off. The point is, all of these optimizations add up when you are performing them 200+ times per day. Driving a Ford Transit vs one of these Rivian EDVs or a P1200 package car would mean employing 2-3x the workers. >Maybe there's a slight efficiency improvement, but seems nowhere near the massive investment + maintenance required for a specialized truck. Just the sliding pocket passenger-side door is a massive improvement over any non-specialized vehicle. Think of the investment divided by the number of drivers, not as a lump-sum. As for maintenance, UPS and USPS both have in-house mechanics, I'm sure the same is true of Amazon.
fiat_fandango 4y ago
Is this guy actually an amazon employee or did he just sign up for Amazon Flex just to make this video? Great angles / production value - also cool to see this vehicle!
- Crosseye_Jack 4y ago
  He said he has been "working for amazon" for a while. But dunno if he works for Amazon directly, A Amazon Delievery Partner or Amazon Flex. I'm sure he has said its only part time Atleast here in the UK you use your own vehicle when using Amazon Flex.
- 2143 4y ago
  After 15:35, he says something like "...2 years ago when I first started working for Amazon...". So he probably didn't sign up just to make this video. Clueless about the Amazon Flex part (never heard of it, and I'm not in North America).
SheinhardtWigCo 4y ago
I like his vibe. This is really well done.
nova22033 4y ago
This is great content. His enthusiasm is infectious.

184 points by bane 4y ago

Software is always the problem: https://youtu.be/3TFz1xqp3us?t=175 https://youtu.be/3TFz1xqp3us?t=175 When will they learn?

nomel 4y ago

Is that a camera in the middle of the left A pillar there (1:39)? It looks like it's maybe blinking IR.

thwayunion 4y ago

The comments on this video are wild.

seandoe 4y ago
errr by wild you mean grossly domesticated.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

nomel 4y ago

Is it safe to say that this video was, at minimum, approved by the Amazon PR department?

mertd 4y ago
He has a lot of videos about delivering for Amazon on his YT channel. Some are a year old. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNcYFjn42AQIX76shX1qWeU-3EQCeUKSP https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNcYFjn42AQIX76shX1qW...
- nomel 4y ago
  I think the simplest explanation is that approval has happened for previous videos, as well, especially since the more videos, the less likely approval was not obtained.
bagels 4y ago
I hope so, but doubt it. It is an unfortunate reality that people get fired for posting innocuous stuff like this on the internet.
judge2020 4y ago
Given not all packages are blurred all the time, and you can see the map at all, makes me think this is just him using the RPV (Rivian Prime Van) during his actual job tasks; i'd imagine Amazon would want all images of his list of stops to be blurred, since it's probably quite easy to pinpoint customer addresses via that map at 6:01. The reason it's a light load is explained in the description, so I doubt it was even specifically picked out for review: > Why do I only have like 20 packages? On this particular day I was an extra driver, so I didn’t have a full route of my own.

cagenut 4y ago

can't wait till these chassis start getting the RV treatment

winkeyless 4y ago
More space than the VW ID Buzz. Interesting… Hope the battery won’t catch fire cuz someone will be sleeping in it
- zaroth 4y ago
  Do you say “hope the gas tank won’t explode” anytime someone sleeps in an ICE car? Are you aware that battery igniting while car parked is exceedingly rare?
  - colordrops 4y ago
    Do you always convey ideas using condescending questions? I make this mistake a lot, so don't feel too offended.
    - theshrike79 4y ago
      Only when the presented premise is clearly stupid and based on 100% faulty data. "OMG what about battery fires!" is so worn out in the EV discussions I don't bother to be nice when rebutting it.
      - Thlom 4y ago
        Hehe, there was a fire in a parking garage next to an airport in Norway a few years ago which basically destroyed the garage and all cars inside. People were really quick to blame it on an EV igniting and raving about how EV's should be banned from parking garages and on and on for days until investigation showed the fire started in a diesel car. (Granted, the many EV's in there made the fire much harder for fire fighters to put out)
        4y ago

bradleybuda 4y ago

It is stereotypically Amazon to spend tens- or hundreds-of-millions to develop a fully-integrated next generation truck and then try to save ten bucks by putting the slowest possible CPU behind the head unit / infotainment system.

judge2020 4y ago
Even the R1T had initial impressions that the infotainment wasn't exactly super optimized. I think it's been improved but there's a reason Tesla can get away with such a barebones and average quality interior.
zlsa 4y ago
Using a more powerful computer won't really change development costs all that much; but it could seriously affect BOM costs. Amazon wants to buy absurd numbers of this, so it's not unreasonable that they've tried to heavily cut costs in the BOM. (Also what the other commenter said.)
- Majromax 4y ago
  I think that's a false economy. Suppose a better infotainment system saves even one minute of time per day. Over a 300 day work-year, that's five hours of driver-work, valued on the order of $100 (at $20/hr). All other things being equal, $100 would go a long way in an infotainment BOM. If this isn't being done for cost reasons, I expect it might be a result of bulk ordering. Rivian isn't a large car manufacturer, so it might not be ordering custom equipment from the manufacturers. If they have to compromise by taking an infotainment package wholesale from existing mass-production lines, then maybe there's no "$100-equivalent" upgrade on the market.
alx__ 4y ago
I blame bean counters for that kind of nonsense
TheDong 4y ago
If working in the modern software industry has taught me anything, it's that developers can figure out how to write slow janky UIs no matter how powerful the processor. I'd go so far as to say there's an inverse correlation here. My 100Mhz desktop had a more responsive UI than any computer I've used in the last 5 years. Text editing on that 100Mhz computer felt responsive, typing characters had them appear on the screen instantly, I could copy+paste 100s of lines of text without a problem. Now, I load notion.so on a 4Ghz cpu, and typing is sluggish, scrolling has severe lag, and pasting 100 lines of text sometimes takes several seconds. All this is me saying that I'm more inclined to blame software than to blame the hardware for UI lag.

adrianmonk 4y ago

I didn't realize Topher Grace was having that much trouble finding work. Should have invested his That 70s Show earnings better.

gnicholas 4y ago
Didn’t you see Ocean’s Eleven? He undoubtedly lost it all card tables (“all red!”).

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

tjoff 4y ago

Why do people like home delivery? (or, does anyone, really?) It is such a pain in the ass. I'd pay good money NOT to have it delivered to my home, but often enough you don't know about it when you order it. Here most will pass several small postal-services (these are your closest gas station or small grocery store or ) on their way to/from work every single day. Even if I'm gonna be home I'd rather take the three minute walk than being interrupted when I'm in the shower or be worried that my short errand is going to make me miss my package. It of course makes it worse that I live in an apartment, but it is not like a house would make it much better. The whole concept that we (well, the US at least) have porch pirates is just wild. Why? Such unimaginable waste driving around to every single home needing delivery. Especially when it is such a damn hassle trying to reroute the package to your workplace if you even have that luxury. If you are old/sick, fine. Or certain kinds of goods such as grocery deliveries. But for the love of god, why would anyone think it is desirable for it to be the norm? How can this even be a thing?

theshrike79 4y ago
I like my home, I don't like other people or crowds. I pay extra for home delivery so I can avoid people and crowds.
- tjoff 4y ago
  You wouldn't ever need to be in a crowd. Avoid people, fine, but I don't think that would be the norm. A lot of places have boxes where you just enter a code. Wouldn't ever need to be closer than 20 meters to a living soul.
  - braingenious 4y ago
    >You wouldn't ever need to be in a crowd. Have you been inside of a grocery store in the week before Thanksgiving or Christmas?
    - tjoff 4y ago
      The local one? It will be fine. The big one? No thanks but they are a little bit off anyway so postal services typically don't go there (and if so I'd just pick a different spot).

graycat 4y ago

A basic, simple point on Web page user interface design: (1) Easily 1+ billion computer users understand the HTML controls. (2) Initially maybe only the front end developer understands the novel controls they develop with JavaScript. Lesson: Use JavaScript where necessary or where it really helps a lot and otherwise stay with just the HTML controls.

_xnmw 4y ago

I fail to see the ROI / advantage Amazon gets out of building highly specialized delivery vehicles. Sure, they look pretty and branded, but the actual task of moving boxes of stuff is fulfilled perfectly well by a Ford Transit + companion app. Maybe there's a slight efficiency improvement, but seems nowhere near the massive investment + maintenance required for a specialized truck.

t3rabytes 4y ago
The same could be asked about the USPS designs custom vehicles, or why UPS has special package cars with changes from a default box van. The other piece that I think is important and not regarded high enough is that delivering for Amazon is all-in-all a rough job physically and mentally (considering that Amazon is at the height of metrics-driven companies and will shit on you for missing your number by 1), so there is an incredibly high chance that they will use these to boost morale (and already are -- Amazon has different tiers of vans internally that drivers work through as they progress at the company [with the new Rivian vehicles being at the top of the tier list], so surely it's being used as some incentive -- "hey check out this new electric van that we want you to drive, it has heated seats and steering wheel ;)". Plus, this is the type of company who cares about 1-2% optimization long-term because of scale. Maybe the lower step of the Rivian van causes a 3% decrease in hip-originated workers compensation claims, idk. Also EVs are so much cheaper to run than gasoline delivery vehicles, especially if your routes are stop and go -- that's worse-case for a gas engine, but EVs love it because of regenerative braking.
garrettgrimsley 4y ago
>the actual task of moving boxes of stuff is fulfilled perfectly well by a Ford Transit Former UPS driver here. Our performance was measured in SPORH, or Stops Per On Road Hour. Supervisors will touch base with you and quote metrics like how many seconds it took you to go from the turning off the vehicle to entering the cargo area, or from pressing the key fob to enable the ignition switch to pulling off. The point is, all of these optimizations add up when you are performing them 200+ times per day. Driving a Ford Transit vs one of these Rivian EDVs or a P1200 package car would mean employing 2-3x the workers. >Maybe there's a slight efficiency improvement, but seems nowhere near the massive investment + maintenance required for a specialized truck. Just the sliding pocket passenger-side door is a massive improvement over any non-specialized vehicle. Think of the investment divided by the number of drivers, not as a lump-sum. As for maintenance, UPS and USPS both have in-house mechanics, I'm sure the same is true of Amazon.

fiat_fandango 4y ago

Is this guy actually an amazon employee or did he just sign up for Amazon Flex just to make this video? Great angles / production value - also cool to see this vehicle!

Crosseye_Jack 4y ago
He said he has been "working for amazon" for a while. But dunno if he works for Amazon directly, A Amazon Delievery Partner or Amazon Flex. I'm sure he has said its only part time Atleast here in the UK you use your own vehicle when using Amazon Flex.
2143 4y ago
After 15:35, he says something like "...2 years ago when I first started working for Amazon...". So he probably didn't sign up just to make this video. Clueless about the Amazon Flex part (never heard of it, and I'm not in North America).

SheinhardtWigCo 4y ago

I like his vibe. This is really well done.

nova22033 4y ago

This is great content. His enthusiasm is infectious.