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This actually really upset me when Apple first released their Self Service Repair program. Apple said it was the exact same tools their repair technicians use,

This actually really upset me when Apple first released their Self Service Repair program. Apple said it was the exact same tools their repair technicians use, and offered all the tools for a $49 rental (which, honestly, probably doesn't even cover shipping for 77 lbs. of equipment). The Verge, iFixit, Ars Technica, and others claimed Apple deliberately designed and priced their repair program to make self-service repair not worth it, even if there wasn't the part serialization. Which... what malarkey. Of course repairs are cheaper when you don't need to rent the toolkit every time and can reuse tools. According to Apple, the parts are the same cost the Apple Stores and their repair partners get, and according to congressional testimony this is not a profitable program, so what do you expect? Apple to sell parts publicly for cheaper than they get themselves? Do you want Apple to send you the repair tools for free and have cheaper parts? That's what they were saying - the parts should be cheaper and the tools should be less complicated even though that is what Apple literally uses. You think Apple repairs screens with guitar picks and are upset Apple doesn't ship those instead? It was really disappointing. Imagine if Apple was a car company. They wanted the ability to repair their cars, so Apple agreed to loan them for $249 hundreds of pounds of equipment for repairing just about anything on their cars. Then imagine if people cried this made car repair too complicated by design. Right to Repair does not encompass right to simple, idiot-proof, no-tools repair.

GekkePrutser 4y ago
The underlying idea of the right to repair program is for companies to start designing their stuff with self-repair in mind. It's not only about making spare parts available. So that you don't need hundreds of dollars of equipment to open up your phone. Then the whole buying/rental thing is a non-issue because all you'll need is a Philips #0. Or torx even (I love torx because it doesn't skip and damage the screw head) Fairphone for example does a great job showing us what what would look like. But this is the criticism I have with Apple's program. Technically they comply here but not in spirit. It's clear to me they don't actually want this to happen. They didn't invent pentalobe because it looks cool like a little flower. But to keep people out. Of course existing products can't be improved but upcoming products should take be easier to repair.
- gjsman-1000 4y ago
  This is a different definition of Right to Repair entirely. iFixit and others fall into this definition, while people like Louis Rossmann believe R2R simply means Right to Repair, and not Right to a Repairable Design. This is another issue with R2R - some define it as just getting parts and tools; others as mandatory design guidelines and requirements. Pay attention carefully and watch different videos about what R2R means. There's a significant schism in the R2R movement over whether R2R means repairable design or not. The most successful branch legislatively (New York, Rossmann, EU proposals) says that it does not include repairable design; and that Right to Repair only encompasses the right to have manuals and parts, not that the manufacturer has to make specific design choices (other than, like, USB-C but that's not repair-related). Edit: Another issue that comes up is how granular is a "part". Louis Rossmann sees a part as being on the level of a specific microchip and is upset he can't order parts at that level of granularity. Apple, and other R2R activists, view a part as a much larger finished item, such as a PCB or a Battery (rather than, say, the specific resistor on the inside of a Battery). Legislators for R2R in EU currently are trying to define R2R as being "if the manufacturer sells a part, they must sell it to everyone," not "the manufacturer must individually sell all pieces of a product until they are no longer divisible" - but the Louis Rossmann crowd views as being insufficient R2R. So... another loose R2R schism.
  - HPsquared 4y ago
    It's a problem with politics in general: that of some slogan going around which gains traction among a wide range of people, but different people have different interpretations of what the slogan actually means. They support their chosen definition, not that of others. In fact, I would propose this kind of ambiguous slogan has, as a memetic advantage over more well -defined ideas, precisely because of this "broad appeal" which is actually the broad appeal of a slogan, not a policy.
  - wiseleo 4y ago
    For everyone who says "it's too hard" to repair tiny parts, it's not. It requires special tools and surgical hand precision, but the tooling is affordable. You can outfit a lab for less than $1000 non-recurring cost. We should have schematics and boardviews available because they _are_ in effect the product repair manual. We should have ability to order individual chips. Limiting repair to field-replaceable units is IBM's business model. When I don't have schematics and boardviews, I have to spend time generating them in my head.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
giobox 4y ago
The problem is the Verge's arguments do hold some water. Its not just a 49 dollar rental - its 49 dollars with a mandatory hold on a credit card of the full replacement value. Many iPhone owners will not have a credit card (especially in Europe), let alone a credit card with a credit limit capable of holding thousands of dollars even if it's temporary. It's also a risk some people on lower incomes simply will not want to take. The tools Apple send are so over-engineered for the task at hand, the replacement value is enormous relative to the task. > https://www.selfservicerepair.com/tool-kit-rental https://www.selfservicerepair.com/tool-kit-rental When NYT tried, 49 dollar rental fee, 1210 dollar hold. 1210 dollar CC hold just to replace a battery is crazy when independent stores across the USA do it with third party tools costing a fraction of this just fine every day. Apple's right to repair efforts arguably verges on a parody of a right to repair at times - cellphones should not need a holding deposit significantly larger than renting a car for the same period of time to replace a $79 battery. If Apple's motivations are genuine, the full replacement hold could arguably become a lower insurance hold fee just like a car rental often does. If you want to look to a company renting for 7 days expensive, heavy, complex technical equipment - I think lensrentals.com does a great job renting equipment costing tens of thousands of dollars and Apple's repair program could learn a lot. > https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/25/technology/personaltech/apple-repair-program-iphone.html#:~:text=It%20included%20a%20%2449%20rental,for%20renting%20the%20repair%20machines https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/25/technology/personaltech/a.... > https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/faq/ https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/faq/

GekkePrutser 4y ago

The underlying idea of the right to repair program is for companies to start designing their stuff with self-repair in mind. It's not only about making spare parts available. So that you don't need hundreds of dollars of equipment to open up your phone. Then the whole buying/rental thing is a non-issue because all you'll need is a Philips #0. Or torx even (I love torx because it doesn't skip and damage the screw head) Fairphone for example does a great job showing us what what would look like. But this is the criticism I have with Apple's program. Technically they comply here but not in spirit. It's clear to me they don't actually want this to happen. They didn't invent pentalobe because it looks cool like a little flower. But to keep people out. Of course existing products can't be improved but upcoming products should take be easier to repair.

gjsman-1000 4y ago
This is a different definition of Right to Repair entirely. iFixit and others fall into this definition, while people like Louis Rossmann believe R2R simply means Right to Repair, and not Right to a Repairable Design. This is another issue with R2R - some define it as just getting parts and tools; others as mandatory design guidelines and requirements. Pay attention carefully and watch different videos about what R2R means. There's a significant schism in the R2R movement over whether R2R means repairable design or not. The most successful branch legislatively (New York, Rossmann, EU proposals) says that it does not include repairable design; and that Right to Repair only encompasses the right to have manuals and parts, not that the manufacturer has to make specific design choices (other than, like, USB-C but that's not repair-related). Edit: Another issue that comes up is how granular is a "part". Louis Rossmann sees a part as being on the level of a specific microchip and is upset he can't order parts at that level of granularity. Apple, and other R2R activists, view a part as a much larger finished item, such as a PCB or a Battery (rather than, say, the specific resistor on the inside of a Battery). Legislators for R2R in EU currently are trying to define R2R as being "if the manufacturer sells a part, they must sell it to everyone," not "the manufacturer must individually sell all pieces of a product until they are no longer divisible" - but the Louis Rossmann crowd views as being insufficient R2R. So... another loose R2R schism.
- HPsquared 4y ago
  It's a problem with politics in general: that of some slogan going around which gains traction among a wide range of people, but different people have different interpretations of what the slogan actually means. They support their chosen definition, not that of others. In fact, I would propose this kind of ambiguous slogan has, as a memetic advantage over more well -defined ideas, precisely because of this "broad appeal" which is actually the broad appeal of a slogan, not a policy.
- wiseleo 4y ago
  For everyone who says "it's too hard" to repair tiny parts, it's not. It requires special tools and surgical hand precision, but the tooling is affordable. You can outfit a lab for less than $1000 non-recurring cost. We should have schematics and boardviews available because they _are_ in effect the product repair manual. We should have ability to order individual chips. Limiting repair to field-replaceable units is IBM's business model. When I don't have schematics and boardviews, I have to spend time generating them in my head.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

giobox 4y ago

The problem is the Verge's arguments do hold some water. Its not just a 49 dollar rental - its 49 dollars with a mandatory hold on a credit card of the full replacement value. Many iPhone owners will not have a credit card (especially in Europe), let alone a credit card with a credit limit capable of holding thousands of dollars even if it's temporary. It's also a risk some people on lower incomes simply will not want to take. The tools Apple send are so over-engineered for the task at hand, the replacement value is enormous relative to the task. > https://www.selfservicerepair.com/tool-kit-rental https://www.selfservicerepair.com/tool-kit-rental When NYT tried, 49 dollar rental fee, 1210 dollar hold. 1210 dollar CC hold just to replace a battery is crazy when independent stores across the USA do it with third party tools costing a fraction of this just fine every day. Apple's right to repair efforts arguably verges on a parody of a right to repair at times - cellphones should not need a holding deposit significantly larger than renting a car for the same period of time to replace a $79 battery. If Apple's motivations are genuine, the full replacement hold could arguably become a lower insurance hold fee just like a car rental often does. If you want to look to a company renting for 7 days expensive, heavy, complex technical equipment - I think lensrentals.com does a great job renting equipment costing tens of thousands of dollars and Apple's repair program could learn a lot. > https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/25/technology/personaltech/apple-repair-program-iphone.html#:~:text=It%20included%20a%20%2449%20rental,for%20renting%20the%20repair%20machines https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/25/technology/personaltech/a.... > https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/faq/ https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/faq/