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... Another? Like Starlink, Tesla and SpaceX? Geez I don't know what people are on about sometimes.
by unixhero 4y ago
... Another? Like Starlink, Tesla and SpaceX? Geez I don't know what people are on about sometimes.
- eli 4y agoTwitter is unequivocally a fiasco. You disagree?
- leesec 4y agoyes lol. not at all a failure
- baryphonic 4y agoHow is Twitter a fiasco? The platform has more engagement than anyone has seen in years, and there is finally transparency around the moderation decisions. Twitter is also finally taking child exploitation seriously. The only negative was the haphazard release of Twitter Blue "verification," which felt chaotic and was turned off as a result pending relaunch, but was hardly a fiasco.
- ZoomerCretin 4y ago> How is Twitter a fiasco? How about the Nazis and far-right accounts he's given blanket pardon to, and who are now inciting violence against the LGBT community?
- baryphonic 4y agoI haven't seen this. Can you point to specific examples of prominent accounts inciting violence?
- ceejayoz 4y ago> The platform has more engagement than anyone has seen in years... Yes, you get more photos of a train wreck than a routine train passing through town, too. > Twitter is also finally taking child exploitation seriously. There's no real evidence of this (in both that Twitter wasn't, and that Musk changed something). The tweet thread that put this talking point into play was immediately debunked in various spots, like the claim there was no CSAM reporting option when there had been for years.
- SketchySeaBeast 4y ago> finally taking child exploitation seriously I would love if there was actual evidence provided for this claim and its actual effectiveness because this seems to be the sort of "think of the children!" claim that is emotionally very satisfying but ultimately rings hollow.
- baryphonic 4y agoWhy would you want to see the evidence of this? I believe the claim is still true, but it's one of the few claims I don't want to verify for myself. Maybe that makes it unpersuasive as an argument. It seems to be a more serious priority for the new regime over the old one.
- SketchySeaBeast 4y ago> Why would you want to see the evidence of this? Because if you're going to mark that as a measure of the new leadership's success the only way to judge that it is by having evidence that the claim matches the reality. Saying "the claim is about something I don't need verification that it's real" is a really strange stance to take. I'd argue that the most important claims are the ones that should require the best evidence.
- RHSeeger 4y ago> The platform has more engagement than anyone has seen in years Yeah, but so does every dumpster fire, or car wreck. Everyone is looking at those. > The only negative was the haphazard release of Twitter Blue "verification," I'm not even sure how to respond to this. He's been firing people left and right, and everything points to the overall system being about to collapse under it's own stress (because there isn't the staff to support it).
- zimpenfish 4y ago> Twitter is also finally taking child exploitation seriously. Does that explain why Ol' Muskie gutted the moderation teams leaving one (1) moderator to look after all CSAM for Asia (60M+ users)? https://www.wired.com/story/twitter-child-sexual-abuse-material/ https://www.wired.com/story/twitter-child-sexual-abuse-mater...
- at_a_remove 4y agohttps://www.dailywire.com/news/zero-tolerance-suspension-rate-nearly-doubles-for-twitter-accounts-exploiting-child-sex-abuse-material https://www.dailywire.com/news/zero-tolerance-suspension-rat... Seems to be working ...
- ceejayoz 4y agoTrying to analyze this off externally available data is probably a fool's game, just like trying to analylze bots externally is tough. @elizableu, cited in the article, has a history of false claims on this. Claim: https://twitter.com/elizableu/status/1594158531015761920 https://twitter.com/elizableu/status/1594158531015761920 > To those who aren’t aware yet, last week Twitter did add a direct reporting option for child sexual exploitation. (ONLY on tweets with content images/videos) this was not previously available and was a separate form that wasn’t easy to find. I’m grateful to see these changes. Reality: https://twitter.com/ChronicBabak/status/1594762640357982208 https://twitter.com/ChronicBabak/status/1594762640357982208 When invited to help in a more direct fashion, she declined. https://www.dailywire.com/news/major-companies-remove-advertisements-from-twitter-over-child-pornography-allegations https://www.dailywire.com/news/major-companies-remove-advert... > Bleu said following the meeting, they offered her a position on Twitter’s Trust and Safety Committee, but she declined because she refused to “work with or for abusers.”
- zimpenfish 4y ago> @elizableu, cited in the article, has a history of false claims on this. Mr Musk, also, does not have a stellar history of accurate reporting either.
- Sharlin 4y ago> The platform has more engagement Funny you should use that word, seeing how it has gotten more and more obvious that focusing on "engagement" is the reason why most social media is so awful.
- rideontime 4y ago> Twitter is also finally taking child exploitation seriously Why do you believe this?
- baryphonic 4y agoI admit I cannot verify this, nor do I wish to given the subject matter I'm taking it from sources I've found trustworthy
- memish 4y agoAll that and with 50%+ less overhead. It being an unequivocal success is breaking people that have built their personality around hating someone and are desperate to see them fail.
- chinathrow 4y agoThey removed the origin label, e.g. Twitter for iOS or Twitter for Android or any of the scheduling services. I always looked at that label to see if it's a manual or a scheduled tweet.
- mandeepj 4y ago> The platform has more engagement than anyone has seen in years... There are more people at a funeral than at a birthday.
- BryantD 4y agoWhere’s this moderation transparency? Can you point me at the clear explanation for why Crimethinc was suspended? Musk says that Ye was suspended for inciting violence. Does that mean anyone posting a swastika will be suspended? Since Musk says permanent suspensions are bad, does that mean Ye gets to come back at some point? If so, what are the conditions? Twitter has stated that they’re relying more heavily on automation. Musk claimed he was going to open the algorithms. Are the automated abuse detection algorithms available for inspection? (Hopefully not, since that makes it easier to avoid them, but perhaps Musk should have considered that before making promises.)
- vkou 4y ago> How is Twitter a fiasco? Making a deal to pay 44 billion dollars for a 30 billion dollar company with no cancellation clause, and then spending 6 months desperately, and very loudly trying to back out of that deal is definitively a fiasco. Whether or not his stewardship of it will turn a 30 billion dollar company into a... Much less valuable company... is, however, not a question that we can definitively answer - at this time.
- baryphonic 4y agoHow does the financial side translate at all into the user-experience side? Their relationship is tenuous at most. Also, the macroeconomic conditions between April and July were entirely different. I can see why someone would go along with a bad deal in a world where interest rates are quite low, then get cold feet when interest rates spike up. Maybe that's not optimal deal-making, but it's hardly a "fiasco."
- ceejayoz 4y ago> How does the financial side translate at all into the user-experience side? How does it not? Revenue streams - ads, putting features behind a paywall, etc. - all affect UX.
- vkou 4y ago> How does the financial side translate at all into the user-experience side? It doesn't, but I never said that I was talking about fiascos for the customers. Time will tell with Twitter on that subject. That would be something alongside blatant lies like "FSD next year" and "Your tesla will taxi people around while you sleep", but if I pointed at that, someone would certainly come along, point at the Tesla stock price, and tell me that this is not actually a fiasco because he's the richest man in the world. > I can see why someone would go along with a bad deal in a world where interest rates are quite low, then get cold feet when interest rates spike up. I cannot see why they would go in to buy one of the sickest of the big tech firms, at a premium, in an economy built on funny money, with no escape hatch, and then proceed to piss on everyone within shouting distance when they get buyers' remorse. Or rather, I can see why they would do that, but it doesn't reflect very well on them.
- eli 4y agolol
- Sebb767 4y agoTwitter looks chaotic right now. But to see his actual impact we'll have to wait for a few years.
- esalman 4y agoHe's been selling the Tesla crowd on "wait a few years" as well when it comes to FSD.
- Sebb767 4y agoBut this time, it's not wait a few years for something to maybe happen, but wait a few years to see how Twitters numbers develop. If Twitter has a quarter of the market share in 2 years we can say that yes, Elon failed, but right now it's hard to judge.
- esalman 4y agoHow would you define market share? Elon has also been trying to upsell Twitter numbers, so that doesn't generate a lot of confidence.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- chroma 4y agoI mean... FSD has rolled out to every vehicle in North America that bought the feature. It's definitely not perfect, but it's getting better every update. Yes the timelines have been much longer than Musk claimed, but you can watch tons of YouTube videos of the cars driving themselves. Failure seems to be less and less likely as time goes on.
- yabones 4y agoWell if you're impatient like me you'll be happy to know that once they miss the first $1.5 billion interest payment they'll either default, or he'll have to sell off massive chunks of Tesla shares or stake in Spacex, potentially blowing up multiple companies in the process. So it might take a singular year or less to see how it goes.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- whywhywhywhy 4y agoAs an end user what’s even changed? Seems the same to me. Just Bluechecks and journalists angry that they’ll no longer be a special class of user on the site so they’re claiming it’s over and a disaster when really it hasn’t changed to the end user.
- pessimizer 4y agoIt's funny that the reaction to the twitter moderation team being reduced to still enormous was to move to Mastodon, with no moderation teams other than the guy who runs the node.
- kortex 4y agoI think the big difference is on Mastodon, you have way finer-grained control over what content you are exposed to. Twitter is more like one giant global state, so if there is toxic content, it can leak to way more eyeballs that don't want to see it.
- fabiandesimone 4y agoWHAT
- DocTomoe 4y agoTwitter was a fiasco before Musk took over, though.
- pfdietz 4y agoSo, when I wrote "another Musk fiasco", you read that as "everything Musk does is a fiasco"? Please reconsider how that happened.
- noptd 4y ago>Please reconsider how that happened. As should you since flamebait isn't conducive to good conversation.
- SamoyedFurFluff 4y agoI don’t think describing another fiasco related to musk is flamebait any more than criticizing any celebrity with a hardcore fan base to be flamebait. Fans have parasocial relationships with their celebrity in question so they will flame at any negativity, warranted or otherwise. I don’t think “Taylor swifts new album has some slow points, just like her other albums” is flame bait just because she has rabid fans.
- pohl 4y agoThe light-gray rendering of this comment is some pretty strong support for its central thesis.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- mensetmanusman 4y agoThe term fiasco is misleading. The Fyre Fesitval was a fiasco because people were almost killed. The Boring company has dug tunnels more slowly than hoped.
- boston_clone 4y agoThey have only one publicly open tunnel: https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musk-boring-company-tunnel-traffic-11669658396 https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musk-boring-company-tunnel... alternatively: https://archive.ph/EYPpc https://archive.ph/EYPpc
- ausbah 4y agocompanies are successfully but he's had a few inquires by the likes of the SEC, NTSB, etc.
- fastball 4y agoDon't think "inquiries" normally qualify as "fiascos"
- Retric 4y agoWhat about Solar, Tunneling, SEC inquiry etc? He executed well after taking over Tesla and kicking out the founders, but self driving was way over sold.
- catach 4y agoSix Tesla recalls in the past two years. Cybertruck production date keeps being pushed back.
- rictic 4y agoMy car got a "recall" because the automatic windows could pinch too hard. It'll be fixed with an OTA software update Terming that a recall is a farce
- jerkstate 4y agoIs six a lot? Ford has had 53 recalls in 2021 and 52 recalls in 2022 so far; even adjusted for recent car sales - Ford has sold 8.4 million in the past 4 years, Tesla has sold 3 million in the past 4 years - that's 2 recalls per million Teslas and 12.5 recalls per million Fords. Tesla has far fewer models? Maybe that is part of the advantage?
- nkrisc 4y agoWhat’s the distribution of recalls by model for both companies? I would expect a company that makes many more models to have many more recalls, and I don’t think that volume of sales necessarily correlates with recall rate. I don’t know if Tesla is an outlier in terms of recalls, but I think this isn’t the right way to compare.
- smcl 4y agoThat’s some very carefully crafted maths to avoid saying “25% of Tesla cars have been recalled” Look there are things Tesla can be praised for, but I don’t think anyone seriously believes they’ve got a good record on recalls especially with the year they’ve had
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- ivan_gammel 4y agoTesla Gigafactory in Berlin is certainly not a success.
- DocTomoe 4y agoTesla Gigafactory was built in record time and got productive even quicker. In Germany, new development that does not take 15-20 years of planning and legislative red tape definitely is a success.
- snovv_crash 4y agoDo some research on how long it took the new Berlin airport to be built...
- ivan_gammel 4y agoSo what. (not a question)
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- deelowe 4y agoI think they were referring to the issues with boring company, solar, hyperloop, robotic car production, FSD/robotaxis, and the cybertruck.
- maximus-decimus 4y agocalling the cybertruck a fiasco is a bit rich. Sure, it's super late but they're also selling every single car they're making even though they increase their price by a huge margin. Why would he care about making a cybertruck if he already can't make enough of the other cars?
- yabones 4y agoYes, a massive success like SolarCity, Hyperloop, Boring company, the car-subway they built in Vegas, the spacex-edition-tesla with a 10K PSI tank onboard for cold gas thrusters, and of course how could we forget the flawless, glorious success of self driving cars that don't need a human in them. The guy has the same ratio of good:bad ideas as everybody else, he just has more money to burn on them.
- dlkf 4y agoMost entrepreneurs have a batting average that is closer to .000 than .500.
- dafelst 4y agoPerhaps that is because they run out of money and can't keep throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks?
- andy_ppp 4y agoYes we could easily be looking at Tesla and SpaceX having failed they came so close. I think Musk is obviously an extremist which is fine but sometimes you have a management strategy that works and you apply it in different scenarios and it falls flat. Pissing off and calling out advertisers is probably not ideal, for example.
- sremani 4y agoYes, it is proven trial and error is the common strategy. The best strategy is trial and 'small' error. An Error that does not usurp your survival and that is different for different people. For Musk that is more than $44 Billion.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- voxl 4y agoMusk is an INVESTOR not an entrepreneur, for fucks sake
- georgeg23 4y agoTo justify their valuations, both Tesla and SpaceX have a long way to go. SpaceX for example needs to get Starship working and win major DoD contracts like the big defense contractors. STARSHIELD needs to grow into a "Star Wars" type program and the employees need to go along for the ride to justify their crazy valuation.
- thinking4real 4y agoThis site is full of wanna be tech entrepreneurs. This crowd, at least when they aren’t in a serious success stage, often is working hard and not understanding why they aren’t winning. (I’ve been in this stage before) They see someone like musk, and it threatens their ego. So they attack him every chance they get. They project their own shortcomings and insecurities onto him. But imagine the hubris of doing this. You can rest assured these are the ones who’ll be stuck in this stage, because they aren’t focused on growing they’re focused on protecting their egos. And Musk is ego threat number 1.
- tedivm 4y agoThe success of SpaceX belongs to Gwynne Shotwell far more than it does Elon. It also doesn't hurt that his CIA buddy joined NASA in time to give SpaceX a $400m investment.
- dpq 4y agoUnited Launch Alliance has been awarded probably a couple of orders of magnitude more than that over the past two decades, yet the difference in technology advancement rate with SpaceX is staggering (and don't get me started about the bottomless pit of stupidity that is/was Roscosmos). I would say that the "CIA buddy" thing cannot possibly be the only explanation. I cannot comment about Gwynne Shotwell; I lack the corresponding knowledge. I can only note that if Elon Musk is a completely mediocre person, he still must be doing something right because the world is full of mediocre people who achieve much less than he has, and I don't believe in blind luck.