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Just looked into the code. Frontend is stuck on Angular 1.5. How unfortunate that long lasting projects like this are stuck on a unmaintained framework because

Just looked into the code. Frontend is stuck on Angular 1.5. How unfortunate that long lasting projects like this are stuck on a unmaintained framework because the original maintainer changed their own course of action. This is one problem of building on top of frameworks. Someone else decides when your product needs to change.

joseakel 4y ago
I think that the problem affects a lot more the choice of front-end framewoks, specifically. Their creators don't really valuate at all backward compatibility, so it's very easy to get stuck in an older version.
- 411111111111111 4y ago
  They're taking about angular here, it had basically one big upgrade from angularJS(1) to angularIO(2+) and that was 6 years ago. Your argument might be true, but angular would be an exception as it's is pretty backward compatible and even provides you with automated upgrade scripts (ng upgrade)
  - beart 4y ago
    Version 15 of Angular was recently released. I never worked with Angular 1.x., but try running `npm install` on an Angular 9 project and watch the deprecation and security warnings scroll by. I'm in the process of upgrading a complex mono-repo from Angular 9 to 15. The biggest issues are not Angular itself, but all of the other tooling built around it.
    - 411111111111111 4y ago
      I recently upgraded multiple repositories from 11 to 14 (all with ngrx/store) with no issues to speak of. Are you sure you used the upgrade scripts or did you just yolo style increase the angular version in the package.json to latest?
      - beart 4y ago
        Yes.... Just one example if you are curious. At some point NGCC broke parallel builds. https://github.com/angular/angular/issues/38875#issuecomment-693634786 https://github.com/angular/angular/issues/38875#issuecomment... The project I'm upgrading is a library used by other downstream projects. My goal was to release a working version of the library for each Angular release. However, I could never resolve this particular issue and just had to skip that version of Angular. Another common problem I ran into - dependencies that support, for example, ng11 and ng14 but not ng12 or ng13. So your options are to skip that version of Angular, try to replace or remove the dependency, or beg the author to add support for a version of Angular that is years out of date. And material components version 15 has a breaking change around custom themes that means either I cannot upgrade to that version, or I have to completely rewrite the entire theming functionality within my project. So yes, I can run ng update @angular/material@15 and migrate the code easily, but that doesn't mean "it just works". To be clear, I'm not complaining about Angular, or anything else in particular here. In my case, the decisions of the original authors caused upgrading to be more difficult than it needed to be. My point is, without knowing the details of any particular project, it's easy to see how upgrading across several major versions can quickly turn into a nightmare of rewrites.
    - theK 4y ago
      Im not surprized by this. The Angular 1.x codebase is significantly different to the 2x architecture (which is still what modern angular runs on). Also back then the ecosysten and tooling wasnt as stable as it is now. Migrating from 1.x was pretty much a big rewrite if you where doing anything remotely interesting.
SeriousM 4y ago
I don't see any problem if the framework offers all it needs to run the application. Angular was a good choice these days and you were able to build pretty performant products. I would be on your side if that would be a new project from 2022.
- rmetzler 4y ago
  I can’t say anything regarding this project or Angular. I just want to address the „you don’t need to be on a maintained/supported version, if what you need is there“. The problem are security bug fixes, which usually are only backported to supported versions, regardless of when they were introduced. E.g. version 1.5 introduced a vulnerability, but it’s not found until after the release of 3.1. At this time only 3.1 and 2.5 are supported. If you’re using 1.5 you need to upgrade. Most probably at the least convenient time possible. You probably know this already. I still wanted to address it, because at one time in my life I was young and naive and thought similar to you. There might be people out there who can learn from that.
  - dewey 4y ago
    > The problem are security bug fixes [...] I'd say the bigger problem is having a stack that a very limited amount of people want to work on. This is true for a company where you want to hire specific people to work on your outdated stack (hard and expensive), but even more for an open source project where you need contributors willing to work on an old stack in their free time.
    - rmetzler 4y ago
      I agree that this is a bigger issue, but only IF you want to change the code. My comment was more in the direction of "the project is done, deployed, and will not change anymore". Somehow software seem to be subject to weathering over time. And what seemed like a secure piece of software can become insecure over night, when someone is fuzzing it and publishes a PoC.
  - SeriousM 4y ago
rexreed 4y ago
These are the words to the "technology debt" song
e12e 4y ago
Interesting. Is that for taiga next/taiga7? Or is it the legacy branch? There's a recent update showing off new (upcoming) flows via mouse/keyboard/screen reader that emphasize their work on accessibility. I've never tried something like gitlab/github in a screen reader - so don't know how that would compare. https://community.taiga.io/t/taiganext-update-livestream-accessibility-focus-why-it-matters-and-demo/423 https://community.taiga.io/t/taiganext-update-livestream-acc... There's also the "next" announcement and a follow-up: https://community.taiga.io/t/announcing-taiganext-and-much-more/107 https://community.taiga.io/t/announcing-taiganext-and-much-m... https://community.taiga.io/t/important-update-on-taiganext-and-kaleidos/171 https://community.taiga.io/t/important-update-on-taiganext-a... Ed: I'm guessing this is "next" - I see the other front-end repo has a taiga 6.5.x tag in main branch: https://github.com/kaleidos-ventures/taiga-front-next https://github.com/kaleidos-ventures/taiga-front-next
- pritambarhate 4y ago
  I was checking this one. It’s the main branch. https://github.com/kaleidos-ventures/taiga-front/blob/main/package.json https://github.com/kaleidos-ventures/taiga-front/blob/main/p...
Karawebnetwork 4y ago
> Frontend is stuck on Angular 1.5 At some point, we need to stop focusing on the next shiny thing. The web ran for decades without frameworks, then it ran well with jQuery, and now many websites use outdated frameworks. But who cares if you're not the developer working on the codebase? If the age of the framework doesn't break regular navigation and native browser behaviors there's no reason to switch to a new framework unless you are working on a big increment.
- wvh 4y ago
  Except that the Javascript ecosystem moves on and leaves you holding the pieces of your broken software and unresolved dependencies...
P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
I don't believe angular 1 is EOL'd yet. I know it's getting close, but not there yet.
niselnis 4y ago
TaigaNext is Angular 14 right now, we're working on a private GitHub repo that will be public soon.

joseakel 4y ago

I think that the problem affects a lot more the choice of front-end framewoks, specifically. Their creators don't really valuate at all backward compatibility, so it's very easy to get stuck in an older version.

411111111111111 4y ago
They're taking about angular here, it had basically one big upgrade from angularJS(1) to angularIO(2+) and that was 6 years ago. Your argument might be true, but angular would be an exception as it's is pretty backward compatible and even provides you with automated upgrade scripts (ng upgrade)
- beart 4y ago
  Version 15 of Angular was recently released. I never worked with Angular 1.x., but try running `npm install` on an Angular 9 project and watch the deprecation and security warnings scroll by. I'm in the process of upgrading a complex mono-repo from Angular 9 to 15. The biggest issues are not Angular itself, but all of the other tooling built around it.
  - 411111111111111 4y ago
    I recently upgraded multiple repositories from 11 to 14 (all with ngrx/store) with no issues to speak of. Are you sure you used the upgrade scripts or did you just yolo style increase the angular version in the package.json to latest?
    - beart 4y ago
      Yes.... Just one example if you are curious. At some point NGCC broke parallel builds. https://github.com/angular/angular/issues/38875#issuecomment-693634786 https://github.com/angular/angular/issues/38875#issuecomment... The project I'm upgrading is a library used by other downstream projects. My goal was to release a working version of the library for each Angular release. However, I could never resolve this particular issue and just had to skip that version of Angular. Another common problem I ran into - dependencies that support, for example, ng11 and ng14 but not ng12 or ng13. So your options are to skip that version of Angular, try to replace or remove the dependency, or beg the author to add support for a version of Angular that is years out of date. And material components version 15 has a breaking change around custom themes that means either I cannot upgrade to that version, or I have to completely rewrite the entire theming functionality within my project. So yes, I can run ng update @angular/material@15 and migrate the code easily, but that doesn't mean "it just works". To be clear, I'm not complaining about Angular, or anything else in particular here. In my case, the decisions of the original authors caused upgrading to be more difficult than it needed to be. My point is, without knowing the details of any particular project, it's easy to see how upgrading across several major versions can quickly turn into a nightmare of rewrites.
  - theK 4y ago
    Im not surprized by this. The Angular 1.x codebase is significantly different to the 2x architecture (which is still what modern angular runs on). Also back then the ecosysten and tooling wasnt as stable as it is now. Migrating from 1.x was pretty much a big rewrite if you where doing anything remotely interesting.

SeriousM 4y ago

I don't see any problem if the framework offers all it needs to run the application. Angular was a good choice these days and you were able to build pretty performant products. I would be on your side if that would be a new project from 2022.

rmetzler 4y ago
I can’t say anything regarding this project or Angular. I just want to address the „you don’t need to be on a maintained/supported version, if what you need is there“. The problem are security bug fixes, which usually are only backported to supported versions, regardless of when they were introduced. E.g. version 1.5 introduced a vulnerability, but it’s not found until after the release of 3.1. At this time only 3.1 and 2.5 are supported. If you’re using 1.5 you need to upgrade. Most probably at the least convenient time possible. You probably know this already. I still wanted to address it, because at one time in my life I was young and naive and thought similar to you. There might be people out there who can learn from that.
- dewey 4y ago
  > The problem are security bug fixes [...] I'd say the bigger problem is having a stack that a very limited amount of people want to work on. This is true for a company where you want to hire specific people to work on your outdated stack (hard and expensive), but even more for an open source project where you need contributors willing to work on an old stack in their free time.
  - rmetzler 4y ago
    I agree that this is a bigger issue, but only IF you want to change the code. My comment was more in the direction of "the project is done, deployed, and will not change anymore". Somehow software seem to be subject to weathering over time. And what seemed like a secure piece of software can become insecure over night, when someone is fuzzing it and publishes a PoC.
- SeriousM 4y ago

rexreed 4y ago

These are the words to the "technology debt" song

e12e 4y ago

Interesting. Is that for taiga next/taiga7? Or is it the legacy branch? There's a recent update showing off new (upcoming) flows via mouse/keyboard/screen reader that emphasize their work on accessibility. I've never tried something like gitlab/github in a screen reader - so don't know how that would compare. https://community.taiga.io/t/taiganext-update-livestream-accessibility-focus-why-it-matters-and-demo/423 https://community.taiga.io/t/taiganext-update-livestream-acc... There's also the "next" announcement and a follow-up: https://community.taiga.io/t/announcing-taiganext-and-much-more/107 https://community.taiga.io/t/announcing-taiganext-and-much-m... https://community.taiga.io/t/important-update-on-taiganext-and-kaleidos/171 https://community.taiga.io/t/important-update-on-taiganext-a... Ed: I'm guessing this is "next" - I see the other front-end repo has a taiga 6.5.x tag in main branch: https://github.com/kaleidos-ventures/taiga-front-next https://github.com/kaleidos-ventures/taiga-front-next

pritambarhate 4y ago
I was checking this one. It’s the main branch. https://github.com/kaleidos-ventures/taiga-front/blob/main/package.json https://github.com/kaleidos-ventures/taiga-front/blob/main/p...

Karawebnetwork 4y ago

> Frontend is stuck on Angular 1.5 At some point, we need to stop focusing on the next shiny thing. The web ran for decades without frameworks, then it ran well with jQuery, and now many websites use outdated frameworks. But who cares if you're not the developer working on the codebase? If the age of the framework doesn't break regular navigation and native browser behaviors there's no reason to switch to a new framework unless you are working on a big increment.

wvh 4y ago
Except that the Javascript ecosystem moves on and leaves you holding the pieces of your broken software and unresolved dependencies...

P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago

I don't believe angular 1 is EOL'd yet. I know it's getting close, but not there yet.

niselnis 4y ago

TaigaNext is Angular 14 right now, we're working on a private GitHub repo that will be public soon.