6 ms·

Where did the encampment move to? Cause you realize they don't just go away? They move? The only way to make them go away is to actually find a place for them t

by xracy 4y ago

Where did the encampment move to? Cause you realize they don't just go away? They move? The only way to make them go away is to actually find a place for them to live that you're happy with...

seanmcdirmid 4y ago
Oh even if they find places for them to live, the problem grows with every inbound greyhound. In fact, that’s what happened: they would offer everyone places in a motel or tiny houses, they would leave, more people would move in the next day to take up the free space. The more resources we throw at this problem, the worse it gets. Which makes sense actually, who wouldn’t come to Seattle for a free tiny house and free things at the store (since shoplifting isn’t prosecuted anymore)?
- LastTrain 4y ago
  It isn’t your failing, it is everyone else’s. The housing first strategy only works of a critical mass of communities participate.
  - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
    > It isn’t your failing, it is everyone else’s. Yes, that's exactly what they say! "It's not my fault I'm addicted to fent, its your fault!" > The housing first strategy only works of a critical mass of communities participate. It works for people whose main problem is lack of housing. It doesn't work with people who have other serious problems, all that happens is the house gets burned out and has to be constantly refurbished (so costs are around $100k/year per hard case housed).
- arcticbull 4y ago
  > Which makes sense actually, who wouldn’t come to Seattle for a free tiny house and free things at the store (since shoplifting isn’t prosecuted anymore)? I wouldn't. Would you? Neither would anyone who's at, above, or even slightly below that station in life. That's the thing right, obviously this logic fails once you have a job, friends and some level of comfort. This is what we should actually be investing in.
  - kortilla 4y ago
    > I wouldn't. Would you? No, but I’ve encountered many people across the spectrum from lower class to upper middle class who for some reason have no problem with stealing from businesses. Even less reticent if it’s a big chain. > Neither would anyone who's at, above, or even slightly below that station in life. Your model of people is incorrect. This is even touched on in an episode of Seinfeld where the parents casually mention “only stealing necessities like batteries”.
    - arcticbull 4y ago
      > No, but I’ve encountered many people across the spectrum from lower class to upper middle class who for some reason have no problem with stealing from businesses. What does this have to do with moving across the country to live in a tiny house with a bunch of homeless people? Do you know anyone who would do that? Personally I don't. I also don't personally know anyone who shoplifts once they turned 20. > Your model of people is incorrect. Thanks, gonna disagree, although your citing a comedy TV series that ended in the 90s did nearly sway me.
      - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
        > What does this have to do with moving across the country to live in a tiny house with a bunch of homeless people? If you don't have better options, why not? Great Falls Montana isn't a great place to be homeless, especially when winter hits.
        arcticbull 4y ago
        > If you don't have better options, why not? This is exactly my point. Our goal as a society should be to make sure that nobody's in a position where moving to Seattle and living in a tiny house stealing from a Walgreens is a better situation. This is what I meant when I said: "That's the thing right, obviously this logic fails once you have a job, friends and some level of comfort. This is what we should actually be investing in."
      - 4y ago
- xracy 4y ago
  You got data with that fear-mongering? I've heard the "problem grows with every inbound greyhound" a lot from the NIMBYs on Nextdoor. But I've never seen anything to demonstrate the problem. Also, it seems pretty easy to build a lot of low-income housing, but no one is willing to do that in an environment like Seattle with high property values. Maybe that will change with higher interest rates. I think you're also demonstrating a fundamental misunderstanding of what stops crime... It's not prosecuting crime.

by xracy 4y ago

Where did the encampment move to? Cause you realize they don't just go away? They move? The only way to make them go away is to actually find a place for them to live that you're happy with...

seanmcdirmid 4y ago

Oh even if they find places for them to live, the problem grows with every inbound greyhound. In fact, that’s what happened: they would offer everyone places in a motel or tiny houses, they would leave, more people would move in the next day to take up the free space. The more resources we throw at this problem, the worse it gets. Which makes sense actually, who wouldn’t come to Seattle for a free tiny house and free things at the store (since shoplifting isn’t prosecuted anymore)?

LastTrain 4y ago
It isn’t your failing, it is everyone else’s. The housing first strategy only works of a critical mass of communities participate.
- seanmcdirmid 4y ago
  > It isn’t your failing, it is everyone else’s. Yes, that's exactly what they say! "It's not my fault I'm addicted to fent, its your fault!" > The housing first strategy only works of a critical mass of communities participate. It works for people whose main problem is lack of housing. It doesn't work with people who have other serious problems, all that happens is the house gets burned out and has to be constantly refurbished (so costs are around $100k/year per hard case housed).
arcticbull 4y ago
> Which makes sense actually, who wouldn’t come to Seattle for a free tiny house and free things at the store (since shoplifting isn’t prosecuted anymore)? I wouldn't. Would you? Neither would anyone who's at, above, or even slightly below that station in life. That's the thing right, obviously this logic fails once you have a job, friends and some level of comfort. This is what we should actually be investing in.
- kortilla 4y ago
  > I wouldn't. Would you? No, but I’ve encountered many people across the spectrum from lower class to upper middle class who for some reason have no problem with stealing from businesses. Even less reticent if it’s a big chain. > Neither would anyone who's at, above, or even slightly below that station in life. Your model of people is incorrect. This is even touched on in an episode of Seinfeld where the parents casually mention “only stealing necessities like batteries”.
  - arcticbull 4y ago
    > No, but I’ve encountered many people across the spectrum from lower class to upper middle class who for some reason have no problem with stealing from businesses. What does this have to do with moving across the country to live in a tiny house with a bunch of homeless people? Do you know anyone who would do that? Personally I don't. I also don't personally know anyone who shoplifts once they turned 20. > Your model of people is incorrect. Thanks, gonna disagree, although your citing a comedy TV series that ended in the 90s did nearly sway me.
    - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
      > What does this have to do with moving across the country to live in a tiny house with a bunch of homeless people? If you don't have better options, why not? Great Falls Montana isn't a great place to be homeless, especially when winter hits.
      - arcticbull 4y ago
        > If you don't have better options, why not? This is exactly my point. Our goal as a society should be to make sure that nobody's in a position where moving to Seattle and living in a tiny house stealing from a Walgreens is a better situation. This is what I meant when I said: "That's the thing right, obviously this logic fails once you have a job, friends and some level of comfort. This is what we should actually be investing in."
    - 4y ago
xracy 4y ago
You got data with that fear-mongering? I've heard the "problem grows with every inbound greyhound" a lot from the NIMBYs on Nextdoor. But I've never seen anything to demonstrate the problem. Also, it seems pretty easy to build a lot of low-income housing, but no one is willing to do that in an environment like Seattle with high property values. Maybe that will change with higher interest rates. I think you're also demonstrating a fundamental misunderstanding of what stops crime... It's not prosecuting crime.