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NYC Bill to Ban Reuse of Lithium Ion Batteries, Right-to-Repair Advocates Warn

40 points by IronWolve 4y ago

IronWolve 4y ago
An attempt to stop the hundreds of fires from cheap electronics with cheap batteries, sounds like it doesn't really address the problem. People are buying thousands of ebikes/scooters/skateboards like crazy from china, brand new.
droopyEyelids 4y ago
As someone who is really into micro mobility devices, this sounds like it could be a reasonable step. The lithium ion battery fire problem is extreme. Batteries can be permanently damaged without visible damage. Manufacturing defects in an imperfect world mean they're not even totally safe brand new from the factory. To accurately judge this we'd need a statistical analysis that I don't think exists. So yeah, in general a government shouldn't make laws without proof they'll be successful, but this is fire safety in city of mid & high-rises. The risk calculation is tough to criticize.
- scantis 4y ago
  You are able to access the safety of such a device from one or two cycles against standardized loads, freshly manufactured or reused. If safety or fires would be truly a concern, costly test would be mandatory every year for each battery powered device. Battery connection and test modes would be standardized, to check the rest of the device for shorts and isolation etc. Usually those things are glued together with epoxy and sufficient testing is impossible without destruction of the toy.
jacob019 4y ago
Could LiFePO4 batteries be used in these devices?
- Ballas 4y ago
  They have lower energy densities and lower discharge rates than the equivalent NMC batteries, but I suppose they should be able to work around the limitations.
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> problem is nobody knows exactly what is causing these fires This sounds like a better place to start than legislating in the dark.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- thedrbrian 4y ago
  nah a blanket ban is better. see how well its worked for the last two years in public health
- orwin 4y ago
  Depends if it's temporary or not. I dislike some regulations my country do, but one thing they're good at are temporary and local trials. Ban it in densely populated areas, make testing mandatory in regular US suburban area, check in 6 month for results of testing. If the test change nothing, keep the ban and change the tests. Kind of the new SE mentality of testing in prod.
hatenberg 4y ago
Singapore already went through this. Their regulatory response after a massive increase in residential fires seems to be working

40 points by IronWolve 4y ago

An attempt to stop the hundreds of fires from cheap electronics with cheap batteries, sounds like it doesn't really address the problem. People are buying thousands of ebikes/scooters/skateboards like crazy from china, brand new.

droopyEyelids 4y ago

As someone who is really into micro mobility devices, this sounds like it could be a reasonable step. The lithium ion battery fire problem is extreme. Batteries can be permanently damaged without visible damage. Manufacturing defects in an imperfect world mean they're not even totally safe brand new from the factory. To accurately judge this we'd need a statistical analysis that I don't think exists. So yeah, in general a government shouldn't make laws without proof they'll be successful, but this is fire safety in city of mid & high-rises. The risk calculation is tough to criticize.

scantis 4y ago
You are able to access the safety of such a device from one or two cycles against standardized loads, freshly manufactured or reused. If safety or fires would be truly a concern, costly test would be mandatory every year for each battery powered device. Battery connection and test modes would be standardized, to check the rest of the device for shorts and isolation etc. Usually those things are glued together with epoxy and sufficient testing is impossible without destruction of the toy.

jacob019 4y ago

Could LiFePO4 batteries be used in these devices?

Ballas 4y ago
They have lower energy densities and lower discharge rates than the equivalent NMC batteries, but I suppose they should be able to work around the limitations.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> problem is nobody knows exactly what is causing these fires This sounds like a better place to start than legislating in the dark.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
thedrbrian 4y ago
nah a blanket ban is better. see how well its worked for the last two years in public health
orwin 4y ago
Depends if it's temporary or not. I dislike some regulations my country do, but one thing they're good at are temporary and local trials. Ban it in densely populated areas, make testing mandatory in regular US suburban area, check in 6 month for results of testing. If the test change nothing, keep the ban and change the tests. Kind of the new SE mentality of testing in prod.

hatenberg 4y ago

Singapore already went through this. Their regulatory response after a massive increase in residential fires seems to be working