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To put it with maximum extremity, should a student be able to turn-in a traced photograph for their homework in a life drawing class? I mean, human beings have

To put it with maximum extremity, should a student be able to turn-in a traced photograph for their homework in a life drawing class? I mean, human beings have produced a lot of tools for aiding themselves in tasks that were previously done by hand. Whether a given hand-skill should be learned and preserved kind of has to decided on a case-by-case basis. I learned cursive in school and I wouldn't object to that skill being utterly forgotten by humanity. Which is to say that I don't think we should assume all learning should begin without automatic tools at hand or that we should suppress automatic tools. Rather, we need to look carefully at which hand-skills are worthwhile and "uplifting" and how much use of those skills should be required.

IanCal 4y ago
It comes down to what the goal is. If it's to learn to draw people, no. If it's to learn composition and this gets you past struggling to draw and onto the actual goal then sure.
justincormack 4y ago
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockney%E2%80%93Falco_thesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockney%E2%80%93Falco_thesis
spc476 4y ago
> should a student be able to turn-in a traced photograph for their homework in a life drawing class? I did just that. It wasn't a life drawing class, just a drawing class. And it wasn't homework, but the do-it-at-home final. I photocopied my hand. Then I covered a sheet of paper with ground graphite (turning it all nearly black), and then used an eraser and a light-box to trace my photocopied hand. Did I cheat? Perhaps, but I used tools that I had access to. Did Vermeer cheat? [1] Perhaps, he may have used tools he had access to. Afterwards, I framed that drawing and hung it up at work. It was stolen. Go figure. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim's_Vermeer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim's_Vermeer
- miketery 4y ago
  Yes that’s cheating. We don’t give runners roller blades right?
  - x-complexity 4y ago
    > Yes that’s cheating. We don’t give runners roller blades right? The context surrounding both scenarios couldn't be more different: GP's context: An assignment wherein the process of getting there isn't placed on a pedestal, rather that it's supposed to showcase a basic understanding of how to get to a desired result. Furthermore, objectivity within the assignment's field is nearly non-existent. Your context: A highly-competitive scenario wherein *BOTH* the process of getting to the goal & the goal itself are important, and where *there are* objective metrics that can be used to rank & sort the participants involved in said competition. They're as different as apples & oranges.
  - spc476 4y ago
    Well, there is Oscar Pistorius [1], a double leg amputee (below the knee) who competed in the 2012 Summer Olympics in running events, so ... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Pistorius https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Pistorius
    - brudgers 4y ago
      there is Oscar Pistorius Don’t answer the door.
- selcuka 4y ago
  I don't know. You could have also let someone else do your homework for you. Does that also count as "using tools that you have access to"?
  - x-complexity 4y ago
    > I don't know. You could have also let someone else do your homework for you. Does that also count as "using tools that you have access to"? Keep in mind that the reverse is also true: If he did try to do it all manually & without the tracing method, is his use of already-available graphite "using tools that you have access to"? Should he be made to go to a mine & dig out coal for graphite in order for it to count as his work?
SAI_Peregrinus 4y ago
> To put it with maximum extremity, should a student be able to turn-in a traced photograph for their homework in a life drawing class? Vermeer may have done effectively that and painted projections (from a camera obscura or similar device). He's still widely considered one of the greatest artists of the Dutch Golden Age.
- shagie 4y ago
  You're looking for a Camera Lucida. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camera_lucida https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camera_lucida A modern version of it can be found https://neolucida.com https://neolucida.com
  - SAI_Peregrinus 4y ago
    Possibly. It's not proven that Vermeer used any device, though it does seem likely. The Camera Lucida was extremely obscure in Vermeer's time, so it's less likely he used one than the (much older and simpler) Camera Obscura.

IanCal 4y ago

It comes down to what the goal is. If it's to learn to draw people, no. If it's to learn composition and this gets you past struggling to draw and onto the actual goal then sure.

justincormack 4y ago

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockney%E2%80%93Falco_thesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockney%E2%80%93Falco_thesis

spc476 4y ago

> should a student be able to turn-in a traced photograph for their homework in a life drawing class? I did just that. It wasn't a life drawing class, just a drawing class. And it wasn't homework, but the do-it-at-home final. I photocopied my hand. Then I covered a sheet of paper with ground graphite (turning it all nearly black), and then used an eraser and a light-box to trace my photocopied hand. Did I cheat? Perhaps, but I used tools that I had access to. Did Vermeer cheat? [1] Perhaps, he may have used tools he had access to. Afterwards, I framed that drawing and hung it up at work. It was stolen. Go figure. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim's_Vermeer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim's_Vermeer

miketery 4y ago
Yes that’s cheating. We don’t give runners roller blades right?
- x-complexity 4y ago
  > Yes that’s cheating. We don’t give runners roller blades right? The context surrounding both scenarios couldn't be more different: GP's context: An assignment wherein the process of getting there isn't placed on a pedestal, rather that it's supposed to showcase a basic understanding of how to get to a desired result. Furthermore, objectivity within the assignment's field is nearly non-existent. Your context: A highly-competitive scenario wherein *BOTH* the process of getting to the goal & the goal itself are important, and where *there are* objective metrics that can be used to rank & sort the participants involved in said competition. They're as different as apples & oranges.
- spc476 4y ago
  Well, there is Oscar Pistorius [1], a double leg amputee (below the knee) who competed in the 2012 Summer Olympics in running events, so ... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Pistorius https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Pistorius
  - brudgers 4y ago
    there is Oscar Pistorius Don’t answer the door.
selcuka 4y ago
I don't know. You could have also let someone else do your homework for you. Does that also count as "using tools that you have access to"?
- x-complexity 4y ago
  > I don't know. You could have also let someone else do your homework for you. Does that also count as "using tools that you have access to"? Keep in mind that the reverse is also true: If he did try to do it all manually & without the tracing method, is his use of already-available graphite "using tools that you have access to"? Should he be made to go to a mine & dig out coal for graphite in order for it to count as his work?

SAI_Peregrinus 4y ago

> To put it with maximum extremity, should a student be able to turn-in a traced photograph for their homework in a life drawing class? Vermeer may have done effectively that and painted projections (from a camera obscura or similar device). He's still widely considered one of the greatest artists of the Dutch Golden Age.

shagie 4y ago
You're looking for a Camera Lucida. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camera_lucida https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camera_lucida A modern version of it can be found https://neolucida.com https://neolucida.com
- SAI_Peregrinus 4y ago
  Possibly. It's not proven that Vermeer used any device, though it does seem likely. The Camera Lucida was extremely obscure in Vermeer's time, so it's less likely he used one than the (much older and simpler) Camera Obscura.