6 ms·

Americans seem a bit weird about food safety, but also American food seems incredibly unsafe. I remember an American colleague of mine absolutely freaking out

Americans seem a bit weird about food safety, but also American food seems incredibly unsafe. I remember an American colleague of mine absolutely freaking out that I was slicing up chicken without wearing gloves, and he was convinced that I'd be dead by morning from some hideous chicken-borne disease because of it. Apparently chicken in the US really is that dangerous, or something, but I guess someone from the US can comment?

msla 4y ago
> I remember an American colleague of mine absolutely freaking out that I was slicing up chicken without wearing gloves, and he was convinced that I'd be dead by morning from some hideous chicken-borne disease because of it. Most Americans aren't like that person. > Apparently chicken in the US really is that dangerous Not to my knowledge. On the other (ungloved) hand, I don't know of any culinary tradition involving eating raw chicken.
TheAlchemist 4y ago
I was amazed in the US grocery shops - plenty of warning signs about how eggs are dangerous if not cooked properly etc. Funny thing is that all those signs were next to actually healthy food ! Nothing next to the massively processed food that make up 90% of the shop.
- zdragnar 4y ago
  That's because federal regulations in the US require that eggs be washed and refrigerated prior to selling at grocery stores. On the one hand, this decreases the risk that the egg will get contaminated if someone cooks an unwashed egg, but it also means that it no longer has the protective coating on the shell that unwashed eggs have. That said, I don't think there have been egg related deaths since a raw egg eating competition years ago.
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
    I remember hearing that the protective coating on unwashed eggs is also where salmonella is most likely to come from as a justification for requiring that the eggs are washed. I don't know how correct that is but it seems to be somewhat commonly believed in the US.
  - ethbr0 4y ago
    I've been making historic cocktails with uncooked US eggs (either whites or yolks) for the winter season, and have yet to get sick. But sample size me and usually with a decent amount of ethanol.
    - smegsicle 4y ago
      any recommendations? i do know that whites and soda make for a fun texture
      - ethbr0 4y ago
        If you can get ahold of pisco, a pisco sour (Peruvian) is a fun classic. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pisco_Sour https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pisco_Sour And generally, most of the sour family, and their descendents the fizzes. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sour_(cocktail) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sour_(cocktail) Egg whites add a nice... balance and mouthfeel to the cocktail that you don't really get from other ingredients. For the yolks, flips are the big family (think nog without cream). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip_(cocktail) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip_(cocktail) You can also save the yolks and make zabaione without being wasteful. Heavenly decadent on fresh fruit and easy to whip up after dinner. Also a great wow if you've got leftover champagne, as the carbonation isn't particularly important. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zabaione https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zabaione I usually split an egg and store the unused portion (whites or yolks) in the fridge 24 hours and use them the next day.
      - overgrownzygote 4y ago
        My personal favorite egg white cocktail is the Clover Club, which hasn’t been mentioned yet.
  - fortedoesnthack 4y ago
    I looked this up before since I was curious if this actually did anything, and apparently the US _does_ have a lower incidence of food poisoning compared to many countries, so perhaps some of these preventative measures taken in the US do help. I guess it also helps there is a cultural aversion to eating raw food compared to the Europe and Asia.
    - wink 4y ago
      Unironically, with their health care system couldn't it also be underreporting and not seeing a doctor if you have a mild case of food poisoning where someone in Europe would just go see a doctor?
laurencerowe 4y ago
Chickens in the US are not vaccinated against salmonella as they are in Europe. https://medium.com/@westwise/why-hasnt-a-vaccine-stopped-salmonella-c3c643b6b884 https://medium.com/@westwise/why-hasnt-a-vaccine-stopped-sal...
setr 4y ago
I’m American born & raised, and know of no Americans who are concerned about gloves while cooking (though you do need to wash anything touching raw meat before moving on). On the other hand, Koreans I’ve seen seem to almost fetishize the use of plastics for all manner of cooking which I’ve never understood. As far as I’ve seen, all the American sterilization obsession is pushed onto the industry, not in the kitchen itself — e.g. you cannot find anything “dangerous” in most grocery stores / restaurants in the first place. The closest is steak and sashimi
taylodl 4y ago
Industrial-processed chicken really is that dangerous. It's the de-feathering. They place the bird in vat of boiling water. It loosens the stool so the bird isn't really de-feathered in boiling water, it's de-feathered in boiling chicken shit water. Believe it or not this process works so long as you take precautions in how you handle the meat to prevent that bacteria from growing. Having said that, I don't know of anyone who uses gloves when handling chicken. Just wash your hands and you'll be fine. Then again, this person may have known someone who died from a staph infection. As long as you're not handling raw chicken while having an open cut on your hands or fingers (gross!) then you should be fine. Still, wash up when you're done!
- ponow 4y ago
  Umm, it's boiling water, not luke warm water. You can boil still pond scum and then drink it. Please floss after.
  - bitcurious 4y ago
    Let’s say you have a big pot of boiling water and you put a raw chicken in there. What temperature is the water now? What if at the end of this process, your goal is to have a raw chicken?
    - ponow 4y ago
      But the nasty water itself, which was claimed to be the source of the problem, is not. It's the rawness of the insides of the meat.
zdragnar 4y ago
I've never seen anyone wear gloves to cut chicken that wasn't working in a commercial kitchen where they required it. I've been cooking in America for decades and have never once had an issue with cooking chicken and not wearing gloves. My mother, other the other hand, got an eye infection the day after getting a bit of raw liquid in her eye while she was cutting chicken a few months ago. A few antibiotics and eye drops, and it cleared up. The only absurd precaution I've seen someone take in the US is that my grandmother would overcook pork to the point we would joke that it would shatter if you dropped it- however, she grew up in times when trichinosis was a very valid concern. Nowadays, it is safe to cook less than well done (some prefer medium or mid-well) though I don't know anyone willing to try it.
- banannaise 4y ago
  Medium-rare pork (cooked to 145F instead of 165) is really tasty. I've been cooking it that way for a few years now.
- jamiek88 4y ago
  > some prefer medium or mid-well) though I don't know anyone willing to try it Fairly common in Texas.
jjtheblunt 4y ago
american here, and that seems as weird to me as it does to you
- Gordonjcp 4y ago
  Good to hear. He was a bit of a weird guy, but this seemed like a really deep-seated "everyone knows that..." thing.
  - jjtheblunt 4y ago
    yeah, the good old small sample set randomness!
Sunspark 4y ago
I understand that American chicken is not processed under sanitary conditions which is why it needs to be chlorine dipped to kill the salmonella bacteria. This was one of the big controversies about Brexit, that they would be receiving chlorinated chicken from America when previously they were able to enjoy non-chlorinated chicken. That said, even with salmonella bacteria, just wash your hands after preparing it and you'll be fine.
gernb 4y ago
Yes, and In Japan you can eat raw chicken at plenty of restaurants https://www.google.com/search?q=%E9%B3%A5%E5%88%BA%E3%81%97&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=%E9%B3%A5%E5%88%BA%E3%81%97&... it's good.
- rtpg 4y ago
  It’s also totally measurably getting people sick and (as one researcher put it) “not magically safe” [0] [0] https://mobile.twitter.com/benschrager/status/1425675378371141634 https://mobile.twitter.com/benschrager/status/14256753783711...
  - gernb 4y ago
    I never said it was magically safe Other common raw meats include sushi, poke, sashimi, steak tartar, yukhoe (double whammy, raw beef + raw egg) the #1 source of food poisoning is the norovirus via bad veggies by a literal order of magnitude over anything else. Guess I'd better stop eating salad and putting uncooked veggies in my sandwich
    - rtpg 4y ago
      Sorry, I just really like the wording and wanted to make sure that people don't read that and think that there's some magic going on (like the "real" magic that goes on with eggs that make raw eggs safer to eat in some countries) To your point about uncooked vegetables... the fact that that is what is left standing is a testament to us cooking meat and practicing proper food safety! I'm sure that stat would change quite quickly if people were having chicken sashimi more often. Disclaimer: I eat sashimi quite often (steak tartar... sometimes. There are definitely restaurants I trust less to do that safely). Just also think it's important to conceptualize the size of the dice roll for various foods.
- fomine3 4y ago
  Most of these restaurants are just stupid. Food poisoning is happend more in restaurants than home.
PolygonSheep 4y ago
American born and raised here: I always ensure I wash my hands thoroughly after handling raw chicken but I've never worn gloves or ever seen anyone doing it to cut chicken at home. I have seen it in restaurants but that's more to keep the food from being contaminated by hands, not the other way around.

msla 4y ago

> I remember an American colleague of mine absolutely freaking out that I was slicing up chicken without wearing gloves, and he was convinced that I'd be dead by morning from some hideous chicken-borne disease because of it. Most Americans aren't like that person. > Apparently chicken in the US really is that dangerous Not to my knowledge. On the other (ungloved) hand, I don't know of any culinary tradition involving eating raw chicken.

TheAlchemist 4y ago

I was amazed in the US grocery shops - plenty of warning signs about how eggs are dangerous if not cooked properly etc. Funny thing is that all those signs were next to actually healthy food ! Nothing next to the massively processed food that make up 90% of the shop.

zdragnar 4y ago
That's because federal regulations in the US require that eggs be washed and refrigerated prior to selling at grocery stores. On the one hand, this decreases the risk that the egg will get contaminated if someone cooks an unwashed egg, but it also means that it no longer has the protective coating on the shell that unwashed eggs have. That said, I don't think there have been egg related deaths since a raw egg eating competition years ago.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
  I remember hearing that the protective coating on unwashed eggs is also where salmonella is most likely to come from as a justification for requiring that the eggs are washed. I don't know how correct that is but it seems to be somewhat commonly believed in the US.
- ethbr0 4y ago
  I've been making historic cocktails with uncooked US eggs (either whites or yolks) for the winter season, and have yet to get sick. But sample size me and usually with a decent amount of ethanol.
  - smegsicle 4y ago
    any recommendations? i do know that whites and soda make for a fun texture
    - ethbr0 4y ago
      If you can get ahold of pisco, a pisco sour (Peruvian) is a fun classic. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pisco_Sour https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pisco_Sour And generally, most of the sour family, and their descendents the fizzes. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sour_(cocktail) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sour_(cocktail) Egg whites add a nice... balance and mouthfeel to the cocktail that you don't really get from other ingredients. For the yolks, flips are the big family (think nog without cream). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip_(cocktail) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip_(cocktail) You can also save the yolks and make zabaione without being wasteful. Heavenly decadent on fresh fruit and easy to whip up after dinner. Also a great wow if you've got leftover champagne, as the carbonation isn't particularly important. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zabaione https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zabaione I usually split an egg and store the unused portion (whites or yolks) in the fridge 24 hours and use them the next day.
    - overgrownzygote 4y ago
      My personal favorite egg white cocktail is the Clover Club, which hasn’t been mentioned yet.
- fortedoesnthack 4y ago
  I looked this up before since I was curious if this actually did anything, and apparently the US _does_ have a lower incidence of food poisoning compared to many countries, so perhaps some of these preventative measures taken in the US do help. I guess it also helps there is a cultural aversion to eating raw food compared to the Europe and Asia.
  - wink 4y ago
    Unironically, with their health care system couldn't it also be underreporting and not seeing a doctor if you have a mild case of food poisoning where someone in Europe would just go see a doctor?

laurencerowe 4y ago

Chickens in the US are not vaccinated against salmonella as they are in Europe. https://medium.com/@westwise/why-hasnt-a-vaccine-stopped-salmonella-c3c643b6b884 https://medium.com/@westwise/why-hasnt-a-vaccine-stopped-sal...

setr 4y ago

I’m American born & raised, and know of no Americans who are concerned about gloves while cooking (though you do need to wash anything touching raw meat before moving on). On the other hand, Koreans I’ve seen seem to almost fetishize the use of plastics for all manner of cooking which I’ve never understood. As far as I’ve seen, all the American sterilization obsession is pushed onto the industry, not in the kitchen itself — e.g. you cannot find anything “dangerous” in most grocery stores / restaurants in the first place. The closest is steak and sashimi

taylodl 4y ago

Industrial-processed chicken really is that dangerous. It's the de-feathering. They place the bird in vat of boiling water. It loosens the stool so the bird isn't really de-feathered in boiling water, it's de-feathered in boiling chicken shit water. Believe it or not this process works so long as you take precautions in how you handle the meat to prevent that bacteria from growing. Having said that, I don't know of anyone who uses gloves when handling chicken. Just wash your hands and you'll be fine. Then again, this person may have known someone who died from a staph infection. As long as you're not handling raw chicken while having an open cut on your hands or fingers (gross!) then you should be fine. Still, wash up when you're done!

ponow 4y ago
Umm, it's boiling water, not luke warm water. You can boil still pond scum and then drink it. Please floss after.
- bitcurious 4y ago
  Let’s say you have a big pot of boiling water and you put a raw chicken in there. What temperature is the water now? What if at the end of this process, your goal is to have a raw chicken?
  - ponow 4y ago
    But the nasty water itself, which was claimed to be the source of the problem, is not. It's the rawness of the insides of the meat.

zdragnar 4y ago

I've never seen anyone wear gloves to cut chicken that wasn't working in a commercial kitchen where they required it. I've been cooking in America for decades and have never once had an issue with cooking chicken and not wearing gloves. My mother, other the other hand, got an eye infection the day after getting a bit of raw liquid in her eye while she was cutting chicken a few months ago. A few antibiotics and eye drops, and it cleared up. The only absurd precaution I've seen someone take in the US is that my grandmother would overcook pork to the point we would joke that it would shatter if you dropped it- however, she grew up in times when trichinosis was a very valid concern. Nowadays, it is safe to cook less than well done (some prefer medium or mid-well) though I don't know anyone willing to try it.

banannaise 4y ago
Medium-rare pork (cooked to 145F instead of 165) is really tasty. I've been cooking it that way for a few years now.
jamiek88 4y ago
> some prefer medium or mid-well) though I don't know anyone willing to try it Fairly common in Texas.

jjtheblunt 4y ago

american here, and that seems as weird to me as it does to you

Gordonjcp 4y ago
Good to hear. He was a bit of a weird guy, but this seemed like a really deep-seated "everyone knows that..." thing.
- jjtheblunt 4y ago
  yeah, the good old small sample set randomness!

Sunspark 4y ago

I understand that American chicken is not processed under sanitary conditions which is why it needs to be chlorine dipped to kill the salmonella bacteria. This was one of the big controversies about Brexit, that they would be receiving chlorinated chicken from America when previously they were able to enjoy non-chlorinated chicken. That said, even with salmonella bacteria, just wash your hands after preparing it and you'll be fine.

gernb 4y ago

Yes, and In Japan you can eat raw chicken at plenty of restaurants https://www.google.com/search?q=%E9%B3%A5%E5%88%BA%E3%81%97&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=%E9%B3%A5%E5%88%BA%E3%81%97&... it's good.

rtpg 4y ago
It’s also totally measurably getting people sick and (as one researcher put it) “not magically safe” [0] [0] https://mobile.twitter.com/benschrager/status/1425675378371141634 https://mobile.twitter.com/benschrager/status/14256753783711...
- gernb 4y ago
  I never said it was magically safe Other common raw meats include sushi, poke, sashimi, steak tartar, yukhoe (double whammy, raw beef + raw egg) the #1 source of food poisoning is the norovirus via bad veggies by a literal order of magnitude over anything else. Guess I'd better stop eating salad and putting uncooked veggies in my sandwich
  - rtpg 4y ago
    Sorry, I just really like the wording and wanted to make sure that people don't read that and think that there's some magic going on (like the "real" magic that goes on with eggs that make raw eggs safer to eat in some countries) To your point about uncooked vegetables... the fact that that is what is left standing is a testament to us cooking meat and practicing proper food safety! I'm sure that stat would change quite quickly if people were having chicken sashimi more often. Disclaimer: I eat sashimi quite often (steak tartar... sometimes. There are definitely restaurants I trust less to do that safely). Just also think it's important to conceptualize the size of the dice roll for various foods.
fomine3 4y ago
Most of these restaurants are just stupid. Food poisoning is happend more in restaurants than home.

PolygonSheep 4y ago

American born and raised here: I always ensure I wash my hands thoroughly after handling raw chicken but I've never worn gloves or ever seen anyone doing it to cut chicken at home. I have seen it in restaurants but that's more to keep the food from being contaminated by hands, not the other way around.