5 ms·

Javascript/Electron - single code base for multiple desktop platforms.

potatolicious 4y ago
+1. I can't speak to Windows but I suspect it's similar: if you're running a well-implemented native app (ex. Pixelmator) the responsiveness is entirely there and in fact significantly better than it was in the 90s. Even fairly graphically heavy apps have no issues resizing and otherwise being real-time interactive. I would hazard that the vast majority of "jank" you see in desktop apps today is due to cross-platform code. A large portion of this is webviews (ex. Slack), but some of it is also poorly-implemented shims between the platform's native APIs and shoehorning that into some cross-platform library (ex. Photoshop).
- iforgotpassword 4y ago
  I recently used a legacy win32 app at work, on a windows 10 laptop. It looked old, even though the buttons etc got styled the win10 way. Since the app had some issues, I wanted to rule out a compatibility problem with modern Windows, and ran the app in a windows XP VM on the same laptop. Unfortunately the same issues arose, but I was really surprised by how snappy the app felt. Everything was just immediate, sub-windows popped up instantly. Sure, the machine was an order of magnitude faster than the typical XP machine back in the day, so it's not an apples to apples comparison, but still it was one of these revelations that we just seem to be taking one step forwards and at least one step back every time we improve something.
  - cogman10 4y ago
    Even if you take a step above win32 and use a framework like GTK or QT, you'll find that sort of responsiveness.
FirstLvR 4y ago
Yup that’s the answer, and cyber security, we had to add thousand of code lines in order to circumvent login properties and such, in order to make software more secure (and less private)
mritchie712 4y ago
Not by any means a solution to all Electron problems, but Tauri[0] is promising. 0 - https://github.com/tauri-apps/tauri https://github.com/tauri-apps/tauri
- robertlagrant 4y ago
  We're looking seriously at Tauri for a new application. It seems good, although we're very early days.
  - mritchie712 4y ago
    yep, we're using too. Very happy so far.
    - robertlagrant 4y ago
      That's great to hear.
- no_time 4y ago
  Is this any better in performance? Looks like rust bolted to a system webview (chromium in the case of Windows) instead of electron (chromium bolted to v8)
bovermyer 4y ago
Just this morning I finally bought a license for Sublime Text. It's just so much faster than any other GUI-based editor.
dieulot 4y ago
Modern macOS is a significant counterexample to that claim. Most of it is janky. Zooming and dezooming the Finder is not something a 2.5 years old MacBook Air (€1200) can keep up with smoothly, for instance. Opening a Save dialog takes over 3 seconds, and expanding/collapsing the file explorer in it is comically janky.
- ace2358 4y ago
  None of this sounds right based on my experience. Wondering which model you have? Is it fanless? I’ve never used until o got my 2022 m2 air. It’s the best computer I’ve ever used. Before that, 10 years of Mac Pro, and they’ve all been old (2010 models) and fast.
  - dieulot 4y ago
    MacBook Air early 2020 base model. The 2010 Mac Pro doesn’t run macOS 11+, that might be its X factor.
    - ace2358 4y ago
      Is that a fanless intel machine? The Mac Pro can run newer os with the help of open core. I can do many things with it like run Mac osX 10.6 using my modern amd rx570. I can also run macos 12+ which I do. It runs great!
- ezfe 4y ago
  That's simply not true. A 2019 MacBook Air has no trouble with any of these things. If you're having trouble with these, something is seriously wrong with your computer.
  - dieulot 4y ago
    Proof: https://dieulot.fr/~temp/Screen%20Recording%202022-12-05%20at%2020.54.38.mov https://dieulot.fr/~temp/Screen%20Recording%202022-12-05%20a... It’s more pronounced while recording but that’s the idea.
chrisco255 4y ago
VS Code works great in my experience.
- dzikimarian 4y ago
  We'll I've spent years on notepad++ and I will have to disagree (ofc VSC can be almost like full IDE but I don't have a lot of plug-ins)
- pjmlp 4y ago
  Thankfully to having multi-process architecture with enough of those services written in a mix of C#, Rust and C++.
  - chrisco255 4y ago
    Vast majority of the codebase is Typescript: https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/tree/main/src https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/tree/main/src. Only thing I could find written in Rust was the CLI. Sure, under the hood Electron is powered by Chromium V8 (which also powers Node.js), which is written in C++. But that is just the basic packages and services available to all Electron desktop and Node.js apps.
    - pjmlp 4y ago
      See ripgrep, and Microsoft plugins that have to be additionally installed, depending on the workloads.

+1. I can't speak to Windows but I suspect it's similar: if you're running a well-implemented native app (ex. Pixelmator) the responsiveness is entirely there and in fact significantly better than it was in the 90s. Even fairly graphically heavy apps have no issues resizing and otherwise being real-time interactive. I would hazard that the vast majority of "jank" you see in desktop apps today is due to cross-platform code. A large portion of this is webviews (ex. Slack), but some of it is also poorly-implemented shims between the platform's native APIs and shoehorning that into some cross-platform library (ex. Photoshop).

iforgotpassword 4y ago
I recently used a legacy win32 app at work, on a windows 10 laptop. It looked old, even though the buttons etc got styled the win10 way. Since the app had some issues, I wanted to rule out a compatibility problem with modern Windows, and ran the app in a windows XP VM on the same laptop. Unfortunately the same issues arose, but I was really surprised by how snappy the app felt. Everything was just immediate, sub-windows popped up instantly. Sure, the machine was an order of magnitude faster than the typical XP machine back in the day, so it's not an apples to apples comparison, but still it was one of these revelations that we just seem to be taking one step forwards and at least one step back every time we improve something.
- cogman10 4y ago
  Even if you take a step above win32 and use a framework like GTK or QT, you'll find that sort of responsiveness.

FirstLvR 4y ago

Yup that’s the answer, and cyber security, we had to add thousand of code lines in order to circumvent login properties and such, in order to make software more secure (and less private)

mritchie712 4y ago

Not by any means a solution to all Electron problems, but Tauri[0] is promising. 0 - https://github.com/tauri-apps/tauri https://github.com/tauri-apps/tauri

robertlagrant 4y ago
We're looking seriously at Tauri for a new application. It seems good, although we're very early days.
- mritchie712 4y ago
  yep, we're using too. Very happy so far.
  - robertlagrant 4y ago
    That's great to hear.
no_time 4y ago
Is this any better in performance? Looks like rust bolted to a system webview (chromium in the case of Windows) instead of electron (chromium bolted to v8)

bovermyer 4y ago

Just this morning I finally bought a license for Sublime Text. It's just so much faster than any other GUI-based editor.

dieulot 4y ago

Modern macOS is a significant counterexample to that claim. Most of it is janky. Zooming and dezooming the Finder is not something a 2.5 years old MacBook Air (€1200) can keep up with smoothly, for instance. Opening a Save dialog takes over 3 seconds, and expanding/collapsing the file explorer in it is comically janky.

ace2358 4y ago
None of this sounds right based on my experience. Wondering which model you have? Is it fanless? I’ve never used until o got my 2022 m2 air. It’s the best computer I’ve ever used. Before that, 10 years of Mac Pro, and they’ve all been old (2010 models) and fast.
- dieulot 4y ago
  MacBook Air early 2020 base model. The 2010 Mac Pro doesn’t run macOS 11+, that might be its X factor.
  - ace2358 4y ago
    Is that a fanless intel machine? The Mac Pro can run newer os with the help of open core. I can do many things with it like run Mac osX 10.6 using my modern amd rx570. I can also run macos 12+ which I do. It runs great!
ezfe 4y ago
That's simply not true. A 2019 MacBook Air has no trouble with any of these things. If you're having trouble with these, something is seriously wrong with your computer.
- dieulot 4y ago
  Proof: https://dieulot.fr/~temp/Screen%20Recording%202022-12-05%20at%2020.54.38.mov https://dieulot.fr/~temp/Screen%20Recording%202022-12-05%20a... It’s more pronounced while recording but that’s the idea.

chrisco255 4y ago

VS Code works great in my experience.

dzikimarian 4y ago
We'll I've spent years on notepad++ and I will have to disagree (ofc VSC can be almost like full IDE but I don't have a lot of plug-ins)
pjmlp 4y ago
Thankfully to having multi-process architecture with enough of those services written in a mix of C#, Rust and C++.
- chrisco255 4y ago
  Vast majority of the codebase is Typescript: https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/tree/main/src https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/tree/main/src. Only thing I could find written in Rust was the CLI. Sure, under the hood Electron is powered by Chromium V8 (which also powers Node.js), which is written in C++. But that is just the basic packages and services available to all Electron desktop and Node.js apps.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    See ripgrep, and Microsoft plugins that have to be additionally installed, depending on the workloads.