5 ms·

This is what makes ShakeDry so revolutionary. The nonsense brands have been saying about waterproof and breathable is actually real. I’ve done 30 mile runs in

This is what makes ShakeDry so revolutionary. The nonsense brands have been saying about waterproof and breathable is actually real. I’ve done 30 mile runs in the pouring rain w/ my ShakeDry jacket and come out “dry” at the end. The material never wets through. The only downside for me is that it does wear “warm” so I mostly wear it in under 45F degree weather — which coincides nicely with Portland’s rainiest weather. My jacket was around $300 and more than worth every penny.

loeg 4y ago
> The only downside for me is that it does wear “warm” so I mostly wear it in under 45F degree weather Yeah. For cycling, I wear short-sleeved summer jerseys under the Shakedry down into the 30s Fahrenheit. It gets pretty warm and sweaty in the high 40s but beats alternatives. (I'm up in Seattle.)
_0w8t 4y ago
I remember US army like 10 years ago compared different fabrics and have found eVent was performing significantly better than Gore Tex. Does ShakeDry really better than alternative according to some realistic tests?
- bsimpson 4y ago
  Obligatory FortNine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtCdQfbLw7o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtCdQfbLw7o For those who don't know, FortNine is a YouTube channel from a Canadian motorcycle gear seller. Their producer has a physics background and makes excellent videos. Like xkcd, there's a relevant video for so many things even tangentially related to motorcycling.
- paulcole 4y ago
  ShakeDry is much better than eVent in my experience running in very wet weather. eVent is fine for shoes (I’m pretty sure it’s what Altra uses in the weatherproof Lone Peaks) but for both weight and performance, ShakeDry is the better jacket material. I’ve spent way too much money on running gear over the years and ShakeDry laps the field in waterproof + breathable. To be honest, I don’t particularly care what performs best according to research. I’m the one wearing it while running and ShakeDry is best for me.
  - flybrand 4y ago
    Did you work with POLARTEC Neoshell or the North Face Futurelight? There were some bike garments made of similar materials.
    - paulcole 4y ago
      I’ve had Neoshell shoes and they were fine as well. But never worn anything w/ that fabric or Futurelight. But from the branding that is very alpine/mountaineering focused, I’d guess that Futurelight is going to be too warm/heavy to be practical for running.
      - flybrand 4y ago
        Sughoi (sp?) had Neoshell bike gear and new composites often focus on higher asp markets like mountaineering before they go into running, etc. These products are about breathable water barrier, not about warmth. They will come!
    - wyre 4y ago
      Neoshell and Futurelight are 3L fabrics so are going to be more similar to eVent than shakedry.
      - flybrand 4y ago
        It seems like you’re saying that all monolayer products are better than all composite layers. I would agree that optimal PTFE is a mini layer, bc it’s got such poor air perm. However, the ‘working’ layer in futurelight and Neoshell has about 1/3 the material as PTFE and much higher void volume, making for higher flow rates. It’s worth checking out.
siftrics 4y ago
>The only downside for me Not to mention the main downside of getting cancer
- Etheryte 4y ago
  A small downside of a few fun options [0]: > As a result of a class-action lawsuit and community settlement with DuPont, three epidemiologists conducted studies on the population surrounding a chemical plant that was exposed to PFOA at levels greater than in the general population. Studies have found correlation between high PFOA exposure and six health outcomes: kidney cancer, testicular cancer, ulcerative colitis, thyroid disease, hypercholesterolemia (high cholesterol), and pregnancy-induced hypertension. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfluorooctanoic_acid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfluorooctanoic_acid
- wernercd 4y ago
  [citation needed]
  - takeda 4y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfluorooctanoic_acid#Health_concerns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfluorooctanoic_acid#Health_... Why do you think they are discontinuing it if it is so amazing in what it does?
    - JamisonM 4y ago
      I am a disinterested observer in all this but the issues seem to be in the concentrations involved in the production of the materials, not in the wearing of them. The grandparent comment seems to imply that wearing these materials is a cancer risk but it really doesn't seem like that is the case. Am I wrong? I can't find anything that indicates it is an issue. (I live in an old house with some asbestos-wrapped ducts, I think asbestos is bad and should not be produced anymore but I also think that the duct wrap in my house is not endangering my family.. this seems like that sort of a situation to me.)
stygiansonic 4y ago
So your sweat is able to evaporate through the membrane leaving you dry? This is the biggest issue I’ve had with so called “breathable” membranes. (I assume you still sweat in < 45F weather because I still sweat even in freezing temperatures when running, depending on other conditions, etc)
- paulcole 4y ago
  I wear a Patagonia capilene baselayer and am often surprised by how dry everything (both myself and the baselayer) are beneath the ShakeDry jacket. There’s exceptions for sure: harder efforts, slightly warmer temperatures, times when the wrists off of my shirt “wick” water up into the body of the shirt/jacket, etc. Overall though for cold (32-45F) and rainy weather like we get a lot in the PNW, it’s an amazing fabric.
Raidion 4y ago
As a runner myself, does being waterproof make that much of a difference? I've done pretty cold runs with various layers of under armour (or related) and while you don't stay dry, you do stay warm, and you will dry out pretty quickly if the rain stops. Only thing I can think of would be very rainy and very windy weather but those are pretty rare in my area.
- paulcole 4y ago
  When it’s very wet, being truly waterproof and breathable makes a huge difference. It’s both much more comfortable and keeps me much warmer over the course of a 4-8 hour long run.
  - Raidion 4y ago
    4-8 hour runs! I can't pretend to understand. I'd top out at ~3 hours at max marathon long run. I would love to do an ultra someday, but not sure if my knees are gonna let me. Take a few extra steps for me next time!
jk7tarYZAQNpTQa 4y ago
- paulcole 4y ago
  I don’t eat meat, I’ve never driven a car, I don’t fly in airplanes, I don’t have kids, and I live in a tiny apartment. How many of those are true for you? I’ll allow myself the planet-killing indulgence of the jacket — which pales in comparison to those other steps I’ve taken. Plus, I have a chronic illness that will already likely significantly shorten my life anyway. I’m not too worried about the health effects of a jacket that I wear 75 days a year.
  - waste_monk 4y ago
    If humanity up and disappeared tomorrow, most of the environmental damage from cars, overpopulation, etc. would sort itself out in a couple of hundred years. PFAS, however, are extremely chemically stable and some of them will still be around in 1,000+ years time. They also bioaccumulate, and biomagnification occurs in predators (similar to mercury). It is a massive problem and the repercussions will be with us for a very long time. If you don't care about your own health, fine. But don't try and take a moral stance about caring for the environment and then complain about PFAS products going away. Being slightly uncomfortable while exercising is a very small price to pay for not screwing up the planet.
    - paulcole 4y ago
      If humanity goes away, I don’t particularly care about what happens to the environment — because that is a stupid hypothetical. And if you think your energy on environmental consciousness is best spent on getting me to care about jackets, good luck.
    - refurb 4y ago
      If there are no humans around does life on earth have any value? It’s just another planet among billions.

loeg 4y ago

> The only downside for me is that it does wear “warm” so I mostly wear it in under 45F degree weather Yeah. For cycling, I wear short-sleeved summer jerseys under the Shakedry down into the 30s Fahrenheit. It gets pretty warm and sweaty in the high 40s but beats alternatives. (I'm up in Seattle.)

_0w8t 4y ago

I remember US army like 10 years ago compared different fabrics and have found eVent was performing significantly better than Gore Tex. Does ShakeDry really better than alternative according to some realistic tests?

bsimpson 4y ago
Obligatory FortNine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtCdQfbLw7o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtCdQfbLw7o For those who don't know, FortNine is a YouTube channel from a Canadian motorcycle gear seller. Their producer has a physics background and makes excellent videos. Like xkcd, there's a relevant video for so many things even tangentially related to motorcycling.
paulcole 4y ago
ShakeDry is much better than eVent in my experience running in very wet weather. eVent is fine for shoes (I’m pretty sure it’s what Altra uses in the weatherproof Lone Peaks) but for both weight and performance, ShakeDry is the better jacket material. I’ve spent way too much money on running gear over the years and ShakeDry laps the field in waterproof + breathable. To be honest, I don’t particularly care what performs best according to research. I’m the one wearing it while running and ShakeDry is best for me.
- flybrand 4y ago
  Did you work with POLARTEC Neoshell or the North Face Futurelight? There were some bike garments made of similar materials.
  - paulcole 4y ago
    I’ve had Neoshell shoes and they were fine as well. But never worn anything w/ that fabric or Futurelight. But from the branding that is very alpine/mountaineering focused, I’d guess that Futurelight is going to be too warm/heavy to be practical for running.
    - flybrand 4y ago
      Sughoi (sp?) had Neoshell bike gear and new composites often focus on higher asp markets like mountaineering before they go into running, etc. These products are about breathable water barrier, not about warmth. They will come!
  - wyre 4y ago
    Neoshell and Futurelight are 3L fabrics so are going to be more similar to eVent than shakedry.
    - flybrand 4y ago
      It seems like you’re saying that all monolayer products are better than all composite layers. I would agree that optimal PTFE is a mini layer, bc it’s got such poor air perm. However, the ‘working’ layer in futurelight and Neoshell has about 1/3 the material as PTFE and much higher void volume, making for higher flow rates. It’s worth checking out.

siftrics 4y ago

>The only downside for me Not to mention the main downside of getting cancer

Etheryte 4y ago
A small downside of a few fun options [0]: > As a result of a class-action lawsuit and community settlement with DuPont, three epidemiologists conducted studies on the population surrounding a chemical plant that was exposed to PFOA at levels greater than in the general population. Studies have found correlation between high PFOA exposure and six health outcomes: kidney cancer, testicular cancer, ulcerative colitis, thyroid disease, hypercholesterolemia (high cholesterol), and pregnancy-induced hypertension. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfluorooctanoic_acid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfluorooctanoic_acid
wernercd 4y ago
[citation needed]
- takeda 4y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfluorooctanoic_acid#Health_concerns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfluorooctanoic_acid#Health_... Why do you think they are discontinuing it if it is so amazing in what it does?
  - JamisonM 4y ago
    I am a disinterested observer in all this but the issues seem to be in the concentrations involved in the production of the materials, not in the wearing of them. The grandparent comment seems to imply that wearing these materials is a cancer risk but it really doesn't seem like that is the case. Am I wrong? I can't find anything that indicates it is an issue. (I live in an old house with some asbestos-wrapped ducts, I think asbestos is bad and should not be produced anymore but I also think that the duct wrap in my house is not endangering my family.. this seems like that sort of a situation to me.)

stygiansonic 4y ago

So your sweat is able to evaporate through the membrane leaving you dry? This is the biggest issue I’ve had with so called “breathable” membranes. (I assume you still sweat in < 45F weather because I still sweat even in freezing temperatures when running, depending on other conditions, etc)

paulcole 4y ago
I wear a Patagonia capilene baselayer and am often surprised by how dry everything (both myself and the baselayer) are beneath the ShakeDry jacket. There’s exceptions for sure: harder efforts, slightly warmer temperatures, times when the wrists off of my shirt “wick” water up into the body of the shirt/jacket, etc. Overall though for cold (32-45F) and rainy weather like we get a lot in the PNW, it’s an amazing fabric.

Raidion 4y ago

As a runner myself, does being waterproof make that much of a difference? I've done pretty cold runs with various layers of under armour (or related) and while you don't stay dry, you do stay warm, and you will dry out pretty quickly if the rain stops. Only thing I can think of would be very rainy and very windy weather but those are pretty rare in my area.

paulcole 4y ago
When it’s very wet, being truly waterproof and breathable makes a huge difference. It’s both much more comfortable and keeps me much warmer over the course of a 4-8 hour long run.
- Raidion 4y ago
  4-8 hour runs! I can't pretend to understand. I'd top out at ~3 hours at max marathon long run. I would love to do an ultra someday, but not sure if my knees are gonna let me. Take a few extra steps for me next time!

jk7tarYZAQNpTQa 4y ago

paulcole 4y ago
I don’t eat meat, I’ve never driven a car, I don’t fly in airplanes, I don’t have kids, and I live in a tiny apartment. How many of those are true for you? I’ll allow myself the planet-killing indulgence of the jacket — which pales in comparison to those other steps I’ve taken. Plus, I have a chronic illness that will already likely significantly shorten my life anyway. I’m not too worried about the health effects of a jacket that I wear 75 days a year.
- waste_monk 4y ago
  If humanity up and disappeared tomorrow, most of the environmental damage from cars, overpopulation, etc. would sort itself out in a couple of hundred years. PFAS, however, are extremely chemically stable and some of them will still be around in 1,000+ years time. They also bioaccumulate, and biomagnification occurs in predators (similar to mercury). It is a massive problem and the repercussions will be with us for a very long time. If you don't care about your own health, fine. But don't try and take a moral stance about caring for the environment and then complain about PFAS products going away. Being slightly uncomfortable while exercising is a very small price to pay for not screwing up the planet.
  - paulcole 4y ago
    If humanity goes away, I don’t particularly care about what happens to the environment — because that is a stupid hypothetical. And if you think your energy on environmental consciousness is best spent on getting me to care about jackets, good luck.
  - refurb 4y ago
    If there are no humans around does life on earth have any value? It’s just another planet among billions.