4 ms·

We need a civic cybersecurity bill. Nor for corporate interests but one written by the people to explicitly protect us from corporations and governments.

generalizations 4y ago
We just need to sign an open letter that says what we, as developers, will and will not build, and what kinds of ostracism will result from not signing or not adhering.
- scottLobster 4y ago
  I hope this is sarcasm, otherwise it's rather naive. This may shock you, but lots of devs are not on reddit or HN, and do not participate in OSS development. They won't even know such a letter exists unless someone higher up the nerd tiers told them. For such a letter to have any teeth we'd need a nationwide developers union to enforce it, otherwise it would be just more impotent righteous noise on the internet
- jrm4 4y ago
  I so wish this would be a viable thing, but it's not, especially right now. In a way, you can blame "STEM", right? So many people in here, someone would likely sell out. Law/Policy/Liability and whatever other methods one can get skin in the game are the only answer. Harmful software has to be punished.
- yoyohello13 4y ago
  I hate to break it to you, but many, many devs out their (yes, even on HN) are more than happy to sell their soul for a salary bump.
goosedragons 4y ago
A digital rights bill. No, you can't label that button "buy" and then turn around 6 months later and delete it from my account. No, you can't go out of business and just turn off the DRM servers without removing the restrictions. No, you can't just add DRM to physical crap so you can get a monopoly, etc. Yes, users have the right to format shift your crap. If you want them to rebuy to use on X device add something worthwhile.
- nerdponx 4y ago
  > Yes, users have the right to format shift your crap Doesn't this require a change in copyright law? As far as I know, ripping a CD for personal use is still technically an unauthorized copy in the USA.
  - goosedragons 4y ago
    Ripping a CD is fine because there is no DRM. Ripping a DVD is illegal because it involves breaking DRM. Yes it would require a change but it should.
    - kevincox 4y ago
      The fact that the technology involved masters is inane.
  - dahart 4y ago
    > As far as I know, ripping a CD for personal use is still technically an unauthorized copy in the USA. Making a backup copy of a CD for yourself is legal as long as you don’t distribute it to other people. It falls under “Fair Use”. https://legalbeagle.com/12719622-dmca-backup-of-copyrighted-content.html https://legalbeagle.com/12719622-dmca-backup-of-copyrighted-...
- nonrandomstring 4y ago
  My cybersecurity class dubbed it a "Bill of Bytes". The things you mention off the top of your head are just some of possibly 50 or 60 pressing issues relating to "consumer rights", trade and manufacture, intellectual property, information rights and privacy, digital sustainability, security and resilience. The time has come to collect them all into a coherent analysis and set out limits, principles and safeguards. Those most interested/invested in this will not be random Joe in the street (about whom most readers here will proclaim: "they don't care and therefore deserve no protection") - but developers. Us. Because without some guidance to protect our industry from ourselves it will spiral down over the next decade until "technology" becomes the second common rallying point, after environment, against which people organise. Like climate, I think we are at a potential turning point, with a window of opportunity, to decide whether digital technology will be part of the solution, or another part of the problem.
ianai 4y ago
Defining, enforcing, and reinforcing property rights absolutely is within a government's purpose. So I agree that governments need to step up and modernize the law within the digital world.
- boppo1 4y ago
  Do you mean they should clarify I own my devices and data, or google/apple do?
  - ianai 4y ago
    Obviously the originator of the data should have original rights to it. It shouldn’t be something that can be given away in a EULA without outright compensation and consideration.

generalizations 4y ago

We just need to sign an open letter that says what we, as developers, will and will not build, and what kinds of ostracism will result from not signing or not adhering.

scottLobster 4y ago
I hope this is sarcasm, otherwise it's rather naive. This may shock you, but lots of devs are not on reddit or HN, and do not participate in OSS development. They won't even know such a letter exists unless someone higher up the nerd tiers told them. For such a letter to have any teeth we'd need a nationwide developers union to enforce it, otherwise it would be just more impotent righteous noise on the internet
jrm4 4y ago
I so wish this would be a viable thing, but it's not, especially right now. In a way, you can blame "STEM", right? So many people in here, someone would likely sell out. Law/Policy/Liability and whatever other methods one can get skin in the game are the only answer. Harmful software has to be punished.
yoyohello13 4y ago
I hate to break it to you, but many, many devs out their (yes, even on HN) are more than happy to sell their soul for a salary bump.

goosedragons 4y ago

A digital rights bill. No, you can't label that button "buy" and then turn around 6 months later and delete it from my account. No, you can't go out of business and just turn off the DRM servers without removing the restrictions. No, you can't just add DRM to physical crap so you can get a monopoly, etc. Yes, users have the right to format shift your crap. If you want them to rebuy to use on X device add something worthwhile.

nerdponx 4y ago
> Yes, users have the right to format shift your crap Doesn't this require a change in copyright law? As far as I know, ripping a CD for personal use is still technically an unauthorized copy in the USA.
- goosedragons 4y ago
  Ripping a CD is fine because there is no DRM. Ripping a DVD is illegal because it involves breaking DRM. Yes it would require a change but it should.
  - kevincox 4y ago
    The fact that the technology involved masters is inane.
- dahart 4y ago
  > As far as I know, ripping a CD for personal use is still technically an unauthorized copy in the USA. Making a backup copy of a CD for yourself is legal as long as you don’t distribute it to other people. It falls under “Fair Use”. https://legalbeagle.com/12719622-dmca-backup-of-copyrighted-content.html https://legalbeagle.com/12719622-dmca-backup-of-copyrighted-...
nonrandomstring 4y ago
My cybersecurity class dubbed it a "Bill of Bytes". The things you mention off the top of your head are just some of possibly 50 or 60 pressing issues relating to "consumer rights", trade and manufacture, intellectual property, information rights and privacy, digital sustainability, security and resilience. The time has come to collect them all into a coherent analysis and set out limits, principles and safeguards. Those most interested/invested in this will not be random Joe in the street (about whom most readers here will proclaim: "they don't care and therefore deserve no protection") - but developers. Us. Because without some guidance to protect our industry from ourselves it will spiral down over the next decade until "technology" becomes the second common rallying point, after environment, against which people organise. Like climate, I think we are at a potential turning point, with a window of opportunity, to decide whether digital technology will be part of the solution, or another part of the problem.

ianai 4y ago

Defining, enforcing, and reinforcing property rights absolutely is within a government's purpose. So I agree that governments need to step up and modernize the law within the digital world.

boppo1 4y ago
Do you mean they should clarify I own my devices and data, or google/apple do?
- ianai 4y ago
  Obviously the originator of the data should have original rights to it. It shouldn’t be something that can be given away in a EULA without outright compensation and consideration.