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> What I read in your comment is that the ppl of Iran have no agency My stance is the exact opposite, it's that they do have agency but that the constant artic
by Matl 4y ago
> What I read in your comment is that the ppl of Iran have no agency
My stance is the exact opposite, it's that they do have agency but that the constant articles in the West celebrating a chance for some sort of regime change actually gives the Iranian government the ammunition it needs to make them appear sponsored/non-organic.
It makes it worse that the West does in fact have a history of regime change in Iran, (that had, as its ultimate consequence, helped to install the current gov. there).
If we appeared a lot more indifferent towards changing the regime as such, while supporting the rights of women on moral grounds everywhere, incl our allies such as the Gulf states, we'd have a lot more credibility and removing agency from the protesters by the Iranian authorities would become a lot harder than it is now.
- lajosbacs 4y agoOk, I see and accept your point. But still after your clarification, I see nothing wrong with west cheering the revolution. a) It is our side b) It is impossible to enforce 'not cheering', one slip is enough to be used against you, see Musk and Russian propaganda. And regarding the Gulf states, I also do not like this. But one has to pick his battles and better (for us) getting our oil from them than from Russia.
- Matl 4y ago> But one has to pick his battles and better (for us) getting our oil from them than from Russia. Hmm...could you clarify? The human rights situation in the Gulf is much, much worse in the Gulf. Would this be because they're easier to get in line?
- lajosbacs 4y agoI meant that we need to buy our oil somewhere, for now. And unlike Russia they are far away and not an imminent danger. So better be friends with them, even though we don't like it.
- Matl 4y ago> unlike Russia they are far away and not an imminent danger. So better be friends with them, even though we don't like it. The reason we're no longer on OK terms with Russia is because of Ukraine, yet we're actively helping the likes of KSA and the UAE to do much the same in places like Yemen. I don't know how we can claim to want to not buy oil/gas from Russia based on moral grounds, yet continue our trade with the Gulf and yet still claim some sort of moral high ground.
- lajosbacs 4y agoThat's what I mean, who cares about moral ground when one's own security is on the plate. See how quickly Finland and Sweden dropped their support of Kurds when it was obstructing (via Turkey) their NATO ascension. Even the Kurds have to understand this. I also only give to charity when I'm not broke. Not everyone is Mother Theresa all the time and that should be OK. It's not 0 or 1.
- rocketbop 4y ago> My stance is the exact opposite, it's that they do have agency but that the constant articles in the West celebrating a chance for some sort of regime change actually gives the Iranian government the ammunition it needs to make them appear sponsored/non-organic. It barely matters. Diplomats do try spin things that way, but the government's problem is that they can't stop the protests inside despite having already killed hundreds of protesters, foreign media is pretty far down their list of concerns. In Tehran women are walking around without headscarves in blatant defiance of morality rules and the government is growing desperate. Recent talk of maybe relaxing morality rules are a desperate attempt to placate the protests, not put on a show for the West.