7 ms·

It’s also a big problem in communities surrounding domestic USA bases. I live in a community with an Air Force base. They tested the groundwater after a cluster

It’s also a big problem in communities surrounding domestic USA bases. I live in a community with an Air Force base. They tested the groundwater after a cluster of cancer cases appeared in graduates of the local high school. The PFAS levels were off the charts

dtech 4y ago
What do military bases do specifically causing this contamination?
- nonameiguess 4y ago
  No idea specifically with PFAS, but in general, military installations are used for military training, which has many of the same pollution properties of an actual war. Spent rounds, links, casings for missiles, rockets, tank rounds, exploded C4, spilled fuel and lubricants. A great deal of effort goes into cleaning up after exercises, but you're never going to get it all. This is at least part of the reason training areas tend to be fairly isolated and remote and ideally nowhere near the water source for a human population. But also why the military has a pretty consistent history of settlement awards for raising cancer rates in at least the families of the personnel themselves who have no choice but to live there.
- sgtnoodle 4y ago
  I believe they routinely dump large quantities of PFAS based chemicals onto runways for whatever reason, then let it run down storm drains.
- gpcr1949 4y ago
  I was wondering the same thing. I found this in a guardian article > The military’s firefighters use aqueous film-forming foam, or AFFF, which contains extremely high levels of PFAS, in training exercises and emergencies. Though AFFF is effective, it has led to widespread contamination around bases and airports, and Congress just mandated the military check for PFAS pollution at 700 facilities while earmarking $571m for cleanup, though observers say the cost will likely be much higher. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/06/military-bases-contaminating-water-supply-pfas https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/06/military-bas...
- stephen_g 4y ago
  They would do firefighting training using foams that contained carcinogenic PFAS compounds. PFAS are extremely persistent, both in the environment and in the body. Apart from the risk from direct contact with the foams, it also would accumulate in the ground and then leech into groundwater, rivers, streams, oceans etc. so gets into local water and food supply. These foams were a problem in civilian airports too but not to the same extent as military. Also in a lot of ways the military just seems to have safety standards a few decades behind everyone else. Various fuels, solvents and lubricants they use for aircraft etc. also contain carcinogenic compounds, and they just seem to have a history of never disposing of them properly (an example is the burn pits in Afghanistan where they would just dig big holes and burn toxic solvents along with plastic waste etc. in the air, causing huge health problems and many deaths for a lot of veterans).
  - nszceta 4y ago
    They didn't just burn plastic waste and solvents in the burn pits; they burned everything: even hundreds of brand new iPads and other electronics.
    - treypitt 4y ago
      source?
      - nszceta 4y ago
        People I talked to that did the burning
      - driverdan 4y ago
        Search for "military burn pits" and you'll learn a lot about them. Wikipedia is also a good place to start: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burn_pit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burn_pit
    - stephen_g 4y ago
      They did burn all their rubbish yes (though I hadn’t heard of them burning new electronics! That’s crazy!). I was just highlighting the particularly nasty stuff, but there was also organic and even human waste burned.
- meindnoch 4y ago
  Firefighting foams
  - mirekrusin 4y ago
    What's wrong with water?
    - Brian_K_White 4y ago
      it doesn't foam
    - Eleison23 4y ago
    - jabl 4y ago
      Same reason you're not supposed to extinguish an oil fire in your frying pan by splashing water on it.
    - kennend3 4y ago
      I though this was "common knowledge" but here goes. There are different class fire extinguishers depending on what is on fire. https://vanguard-fire.com/what-are-the-5-different-classes-of-fires/ https://vanguard-fire.com/what-are-the-5-different-classes-o... You cant use water on any sort of "gas" fire because the gas (airplane fuel, etc) will simply float on top of the water and remain on fire. Throwing water on it can actually help it spread as well.
      - mirekrusin 4y ago
        In recent fire truck vs airplane crash on the airport they used water and it seem to worked well. We're talking about open air fire treated with carcinogenic foam in large quantities where 1m+ large flakes land in somebody's private garden.
        ben_w 4y ago
- simongr3dal 4y ago
  The article mentions that "health activists" have been denied access to the bases, I don't think it's too much to imagine that Japanese authorities could also be facing significant bureaucratic hurdles to gain access and actually determine the source of pollution. They give an example of both military and civilian firefighters doing training that involve using a lot of fire-suppressing foam. These foams contain carcinogenic compounds that can be washed into the groundwater by rain. In Denmark we have recently had just that happen to people living near firefighter training grounds [link] link (machine translated since I couldn't find anything in english): https://www-dr-dk.translate.goog/nyheder/indland/store-maengder-af-farligt-stof-er-maalt-i-korsoer-borgeres-blod-man-falder-ned-i-et?_x_tr_sl=da&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://www-dr-dk.translate.goog/nyheder/indland/store-maeng...
- devoutsalsa 4y ago
  I used to live on Treasure Island, a former naval base in San Francisco. It turns out my former house contained radioactive from atomic weapons testing in the Pacific. That explains my third arm. https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/navy-finds-radiation-in-treasure-island-home/71751/ https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/navy-finds-radiation-i...
  - pyuser583 4y ago
    How is Treasure Island? I wanted to live there, but everyone is SF said “don’t.” Apparently it’s an ugly, post-industrial sewage pit populated by an extremist anti-male lesbian commune, and Coastguardsmen receiving hazard pay. I figured it was just local prejudice, but there’s some truth to the myth?
- basch 4y ago
  https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/25/us-military-toxic-chemicals-us-states https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/25/us-mil... David Bond has a series of articles about things like this.
- ArnoVW 4y ago
  I would hope that the Standard Operating Practise is adapted to local conditions, and that this sort of thing would not happen next to urban areas, but a good example of the typical mindset: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKNfFm0QDXQ Btw, this is from a Youtube channel of an Emergency medic. It's sort of Doctor House, but with real cases. He makes his videos to attract attention to certain things, so that people don't end up in the emergency ward. Highly recommend.
- morbidious 4y ago
  And moreover why does America have to poke its nose into other countries and establish military bases there?
  - akomtu 4y ago
    It goes all the way back to WW2. Japan was playing for the wrong team and that team lost. Since then Japan is effectively a vassal of the US.
    - morbidious 4y ago
      But don't Americans have any shame for wiping out so many innocent lives in the nuclear bombings, yet still have the audacity to make Japan their vassal state?
      - DontchaKnowit 4y ago
        No
      - uni_rule 4y ago
        It was not particularly to empathize with Imperial Japan of all places. Saying they didn't treat people kindly was the understatement of the (20th) century.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- runjake 4y ago
  Fuels and other petroleum fluids, which military bases use a lot of. Munitions, munition byproducts, biowaste, various other fluids such as carcinogenic firefighter fluids, aircraft engines, tank engines, we would run internal combustion engines (generators, HVAC, misc) like there was no tomorrow because fuel was effectively free. Those are just the stuff I can think of off the top of my head, but I keep coming up with more so I’ll stop writing now. Don’t ever live on or near a decommissioned military base.
kzrdude 4y ago
How did the community respond? And did the base start cleaning up its operations?
the-printer 4y ago
I’ve been hearing a lot of those “If you or a loved one have been affected…” style of commercials lately talking about Camp Lejeune some decades ago.
- ben_w 4y ago
  Likewise, but spam email. Am currently getting even more spam about Camp Lejeune than even the "you've been awarded $10 million" messages.
bamboozled 4y ago
Do you think only "USA" bases have problems? Like why would only US air force bases have this problem? Do other countries use eco-friendly / biodegradable materials on their bases? Edit: This is not to say I think it's "OK" that this is happening, I feel the USA should strive to be way better than this, I just doubt this happens on American bases only. Edit 2: Little bit surprised and disappointed about the down votes, I'm not trying to discount this is an American base, but if the issue is these use of toxic chemicals used in things likefirefighting exercises, it's happening everywhere in the world and should be stopped?
- pmontra 4y ago
  It might be a common problem to all air forces around the world but how many other countries have so many air bases around the world? I guess that no Japanese ever complained about the environmental impact of an Italian or French air force base in Okinawa.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- throwaway78987 4y ago
  Don’t be surprised by the downvotes. There seems to be a little bit of the “USA BAD” vibe here right now ~ especially in terms of the military. The US does seem to emphasize training and preparedness over simply having equipment which could lead to higher relative levels of contamination when compared to other militaries. I’m not sure if that is the case, but I recall the training differences being considered a factor when evaluating operational challenges (for example Saddam’s iraqi troops vs Cold War Soviets in the same equipment and situation ~ the Soviets would be expected to present a significantly harder challenge just by virtue of better training ~ at least in theory)
  - bamboozled 4y ago
    I guess if what you're saying is true, they can replace the foam with water or similar for the majority of training.
api 4y ago
Part of why the US now fully acknowledges Area 51 (more or less) is lawsuits by former workers over cancers and other conditions caused by exposure to toxic materials. https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/area-51-secrets-under-the-sun/2013/08/16/d9fea198-06b1-11e3-9259-e2aafe5a5f84_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/area-51-secre...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

dtech 4y ago

What do military bases do specifically causing this contamination?

nonameiguess 4y ago
No idea specifically with PFAS, but in general, military installations are used for military training, which has many of the same pollution properties of an actual war. Spent rounds, links, casings for missiles, rockets, tank rounds, exploded C4, spilled fuel and lubricants. A great deal of effort goes into cleaning up after exercises, but you're never going to get it all. This is at least part of the reason training areas tend to be fairly isolated and remote and ideally nowhere near the water source for a human population. But also why the military has a pretty consistent history of settlement awards for raising cancer rates in at least the families of the personnel themselves who have no choice but to live there.
sgtnoodle 4y ago
I believe they routinely dump large quantities of PFAS based chemicals onto runways for whatever reason, then let it run down storm drains.
gpcr1949 4y ago
I was wondering the same thing. I found this in a guardian article > The military’s firefighters use aqueous film-forming foam, or AFFF, which contains extremely high levels of PFAS, in training exercises and emergencies. Though AFFF is effective, it has led to widespread contamination around bases and airports, and Congress just mandated the military check for PFAS pollution at 700 facilities while earmarking $571m for cleanup, though observers say the cost will likely be much higher. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/06/military-bases-contaminating-water-supply-pfas https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/06/military-bas...
stephen_g 4y ago
They would do firefighting training using foams that contained carcinogenic PFAS compounds. PFAS are extremely persistent, both in the environment and in the body. Apart from the risk from direct contact with the foams, it also would accumulate in the ground and then leech into groundwater, rivers, streams, oceans etc. so gets into local water and food supply. These foams were a problem in civilian airports too but not to the same extent as military. Also in a lot of ways the military just seems to have safety standards a few decades behind everyone else. Various fuels, solvents and lubricants they use for aircraft etc. also contain carcinogenic compounds, and they just seem to have a history of never disposing of them properly (an example is the burn pits in Afghanistan where they would just dig big holes and burn toxic solvents along with plastic waste etc. in the air, causing huge health problems and many deaths for a lot of veterans).
- nszceta 4y ago
  They didn't just burn plastic waste and solvents in the burn pits; they burned everything: even hundreds of brand new iPads and other electronics.
  - treypitt 4y ago
    source?
    - nszceta 4y ago
      People I talked to that did the burning
    - driverdan 4y ago
      Search for "military burn pits" and you'll learn a lot about them. Wikipedia is also a good place to start: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burn_pit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burn_pit
  - stephen_g 4y ago
    They did burn all their rubbish yes (though I hadn’t heard of them burning new electronics! That’s crazy!). I was just highlighting the particularly nasty stuff, but there was also organic and even human waste burned.
meindnoch 4y ago
Firefighting foams
- mirekrusin 4y ago
  What's wrong with water?
  - Brian_K_White 4y ago
    it doesn't foam
  - Eleison23 4y ago
  - jabl 4y ago
    Same reason you're not supposed to extinguish an oil fire in your frying pan by splashing water on it.
  - kennend3 4y ago
    I though this was "common knowledge" but here goes. There are different class fire extinguishers depending on what is on fire. https://vanguard-fire.com/what-are-the-5-different-classes-of-fires/ https://vanguard-fire.com/what-are-the-5-different-classes-o... You cant use water on any sort of "gas" fire because the gas (airplane fuel, etc) will simply float on top of the water and remain on fire. Throwing water on it can actually help it spread as well.
    - mirekrusin 4y ago
      In recent fire truck vs airplane crash on the airport they used water and it seem to worked well. We're talking about open air fire treated with carcinogenic foam in large quantities where 1m+ large flakes land in somebody's private garden.
      - ben_w 4y ago
simongr3dal 4y ago
The article mentions that "health activists" have been denied access to the bases, I don't think it's too much to imagine that Japanese authorities could also be facing significant bureaucratic hurdles to gain access and actually determine the source of pollution. They give an example of both military and civilian firefighters doing training that involve using a lot of fire-suppressing foam. These foams contain carcinogenic compounds that can be washed into the groundwater by rain. In Denmark we have recently had just that happen to people living near firefighter training grounds [link] link (machine translated since I couldn't find anything in english): https://www-dr-dk.translate.goog/nyheder/indland/store-maengder-af-farligt-stof-er-maalt-i-korsoer-borgeres-blod-man-falder-ned-i-et?_x_tr_sl=da&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://www-dr-dk.translate.goog/nyheder/indland/store-maeng...
devoutsalsa 4y ago
I used to live on Treasure Island, a former naval base in San Francisco. It turns out my former house contained radioactive from atomic weapons testing in the Pacific. That explains my third arm. https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/navy-finds-radiation-in-treasure-island-home/71751/ https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/navy-finds-radiation-i...
- pyuser583 4y ago
  How is Treasure Island? I wanted to live there, but everyone is SF said “don’t.” Apparently it’s an ugly, post-industrial sewage pit populated by an extremist anti-male lesbian commune, and Coastguardsmen receiving hazard pay. I figured it was just local prejudice, but there’s some truth to the myth?
basch 4y ago
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/25/us-military-toxic-chemicals-us-states https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/25/us-mil... David Bond has a series of articles about things like this.
ArnoVW 4y ago
I would hope that the Standard Operating Practise is adapted to local conditions, and that this sort of thing would not happen next to urban areas, but a good example of the typical mindset: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKNfFm0QDXQ Btw, this is from a Youtube channel of an Emergency medic. It's sort of Doctor House, but with real cases. He makes his videos to attract attention to certain things, so that people don't end up in the emergency ward. Highly recommend.
morbidious 4y ago
And moreover why does America have to poke its nose into other countries and establish military bases there?
- akomtu 4y ago
  It goes all the way back to WW2. Japan was playing for the wrong team and that team lost. Since then Japan is effectively a vassal of the US.
  - morbidious 4y ago
    But don't Americans have any shame for wiping out so many innocent lives in the nuclear bombings, yet still have the audacity to make Japan their vassal state?
    - DontchaKnowit 4y ago
      No
    - uni_rule 4y ago
      It was not particularly to empathize with Imperial Japan of all places. Saying they didn't treat people kindly was the understatement of the (20th) century.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
runjake 4y ago
Fuels and other petroleum fluids, which military bases use a lot of. Munitions, munition byproducts, biowaste, various other fluids such as carcinogenic firefighter fluids, aircraft engines, tank engines, we would run internal combustion engines (generators, HVAC, misc) like there was no tomorrow because fuel was effectively free. Those are just the stuff I can think of off the top of my head, but I keep coming up with more so I’ll stop writing now. Don’t ever live on or near a decommissioned military base.

kzrdude 4y ago

How did the community respond? And did the base start cleaning up its operations?

the-printer 4y ago

I’ve been hearing a lot of those “If you or a loved one have been affected…” style of commercials lately talking about Camp Lejeune some decades ago.

ben_w 4y ago
Likewise, but spam email. Am currently getting even more spam about Camp Lejeune than even the "you've been awarded $10 million" messages.

bamboozled 4y ago

Do you think only "USA" bases have problems? Like why would only US air force bases have this problem? Do other countries use eco-friendly / biodegradable materials on their bases? Edit: This is not to say I think it's "OK" that this is happening, I feel the USA should strive to be way better than this, I just doubt this happens on American bases only. Edit 2: Little bit surprised and disappointed about the down votes, I'm not trying to discount this is an American base, but if the issue is these use of toxic chemicals used in things likefirefighting exercises, it's happening everywhere in the world and should be stopped?

pmontra 4y ago
It might be a common problem to all air forces around the world but how many other countries have so many air bases around the world? I guess that no Japanese ever complained about the environmental impact of an Italian or French air force base in Okinawa.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
throwaway78987 4y ago
Don’t be surprised by the downvotes. There seems to be a little bit of the “USA BAD” vibe here right now ~ especially in terms of the military. The US does seem to emphasize training and preparedness over simply having equipment which could lead to higher relative levels of contamination when compared to other militaries. I’m not sure if that is the case, but I recall the training differences being considered a factor when evaluating operational challenges (for example Saddam’s iraqi troops vs Cold War Soviets in the same equipment and situation ~ the Soviets would be expected to present a significantly harder challenge just by virtue of better training ~ at least in theory)
- bamboozled 4y ago
  I guess if what you're saying is true, they can replace the foam with water or similar for the majority of training.

api 4y ago

Part of why the US now fully acknowledges Area 51 (more or less) is lawsuits by former workers over cancers and other conditions caused by exposure to toxic materials. https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/area-51-secrets-under-the-sun/2013/08/16/d9fea198-06b1-11e3-9259-e2aafe5a5f84_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/area-51-secre...

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]