7 ms·

This isn't too surprising. If the goal is to reduce car ownership (and trips), then my first thought would be that adding ride sharing services could only help

This isn't too surprising. If the goal is to reduce car ownership (and trips), then my first thought would be that adding ride sharing services could only help if it fills few remaining trips that a robust public transit system can't easily accommodate. Even if on a per trip basis ridesharing has greater externalities, that might be ok if only a small minority of trips need a car in the first place. Of course, that's obviously not true for already car-dependent cities. Other aspects that the linked policy brief mentions also follows, such as ridesharing displacing transit more among more wealthy populations. To me, the most surprising finding is that ridesharing did not lower car ownership even in cities that aren't car-dependent. If I had to hypothesize about why that might be the case, I would say it would probably be due to ridesharing replacing transit, making it worse in turn. Especially since U.S. transit is so bad in general, making it much worse would render it useless in many if not most U.S. cities.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
> If I had to hypothesize about why that might be the case, I would say it would probably be due to ridesharing replacing transit, making it worse in turn. I think it's economics & utility. I begrudgingly own a car (and parking). The few times a month I use my car, it would cost way more to Uber than to own my car and drive myself. Not to mention, I think of myself as a pretty bad driver, but most times my Uber drivers are even worse. It's also useful the once a month or so I drive out of the city to camp or go hiking or see family or whatever (don't need to rent a car). It's also useful for the odd shopping trip here & there (and much cheaper than renting a car or Ubering to 5 or different stores, with bags & boxes, etc). I still use Uber a few times a month - when I need to go somewhere where parking is a nightmare. But I mostly just walk & bike & take the train.
- Spivak 4y ago
  Huh, I’m currently in the opposite boat. The cost of ride-sharing a few times a month is so much cheaper than the total cost of owning a car. Like hell it’s less than just the insurance.
- scarface74 4y ago
  So my wife and I decided to do the digital nomad thing earlier this year. Our first thought was that we would drive her Hyundai Tuscan and across the country and sell my old car. Then we realized we don’t like road trips when we drove from Atlanta (our home) to Nashville. She gets carsick when she is not driving. Which is ironic because it doesn’t happen when she is driving and she has had a commercial driving license for decades and she was a city bus driver before we got married and a school bus driver afterwards - mostly for the benefits until two years ago. We sold both of our cars saving $800 a month in car notes and insurance not counting maintenance - I was already working remotely - and we decided to fly everywhere and have a $900/month “Uber budget”. Even before then, I hated everything about car ownership and for year we had one car when I gave my car to my older son who doesn’t live with us. I loved when I went on business trips and didn’t have to drive. We don’t have to worry about car maintenance and repairs and statistically flying long distances is much safer than driving. Another anecdote is that before my son could drive he had a job. We paid about $400 a month for him to take Uber everywhere which was much cheaper than a car note and car insurance for an under 21 year old male ($550). No we couldn’t buy a big six foot three dude an old little beater and I hate dealing with car repairs.
  - vorpalhex 4y ago
    Are you buying a new car every 3 years? That car note shouldn't be $400/mo for the life of the car.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      My wife and I have been married since 2012. She had an old beater and we bought a 2011 used Ford Fusion for her($15K) from CarMax. I had a 2008 Honda Civic. In 2015, I gave my car to my older (step)son and bought a 2012 Sonic Fusion ($14k). In 2020 when I started working remotely, my older son who didn’t live with us needed a car so I gave him my Sonic and we lived with one car for a year - I had a permanently remote job at $BigTech by then. We shared the 2011 Fusion. A year later in the summer of 2021 we bought the Hyundai ($36k) and I drove the 2011 Fusion. When we decided to do the digital nomad thing starting in October, we sold the Hyundai back to the dealer for what we owed and saved $750 between the car note and insurance. Right before we left, we sold the Fusion saving another $80 a month in car insurance. Again this doesn’t count car maintenance.
pclmulqdq 4y ago
People who make economic arguments about how Uber/Lyft are so much more efficient than car ownership don't understand the fact that most car owners care a lot about availability. When I need a car, I want to have it, no questions asked, and no "surge" pricing. Personally, I have lived in big cities both with and without a car, and I would absolutely choose to keep my car and pay for parking if I moved back.
- redox99 4y ago
  Yep. Owning a car is about availability. You want to go to X place at any time, any place? You can walk to your car and do so immediately. The same happens with private jets. Yes, some first class seats are insanely luxurious. But you will never have the same experience as owning your own jet that you can hop on at a moments notice.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - pclmulqdq 4y ago
    I have flown first class and private a few times. IMO international first class is the best flying experience you can get, and beats flying private by a lot (aside from the security...). By the way, I think this is also true of the "luxury" ubers - it's a much better experience than driving.
    - ghaff 4y ago
      >By the way, I think this is also true of the "luxury" ubers - it's a much better experience than driving. Well, sure. In general, being driven is better than driving. If money were no object, I would absolutely book a car service for a night in town rather than driving myself. But that would add about $300 to the evening--which I can afford but wouldn't pay just so I didn't need to drive.
      - pclmulqdq 4y ago
whimsicalism 4y ago
> could only help Having trouble parsing this without hearing it spoken. Do you mean this as a condition for it helping or saying that basically the only possibility is that it is beneficial?
- gfaster 4y ago
  Sorry for late reply, but I meant the former. I find it plausible that even with robust public transit, the idle miles driven by rideshare do not incur any net benefit.
rufus_foreman 4y ago
>> If the goal is to reduce car ownership That's a pretty weird goal to have. For me the goal is freedom and the pursuit of happiness, part of that would be competitive markets where externalities are priced in, but having "reduce ownership of a certain thing" be a goal is just...strange to me.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago

> If I had to hypothesize about why that might be the case, I would say it would probably be due to ridesharing replacing transit, making it worse in turn. I think it's economics & utility. I begrudgingly own a car (and parking). The few times a month I use my car, it would cost way more to Uber than to own my car and drive myself. Not to mention, I think of myself as a pretty bad driver, but most times my Uber drivers are even worse. It's also useful the once a month or so I drive out of the city to camp or go hiking or see family or whatever (don't need to rent a car). It's also useful for the odd shopping trip here & there (and much cheaper than renting a car or Ubering to 5 or different stores, with bags & boxes, etc). I still use Uber a few times a month - when I need to go somewhere where parking is a nightmare. But I mostly just walk & bike & take the train.

Spivak 4y ago
Huh, I’m currently in the opposite boat. The cost of ride-sharing a few times a month is so much cheaper than the total cost of owning a car. Like hell it’s less than just the insurance.
scarface74 4y ago
So my wife and I decided to do the digital nomad thing earlier this year. Our first thought was that we would drive her Hyundai Tuscan and across the country and sell my old car. Then we realized we don’t like road trips when we drove from Atlanta (our home) to Nashville. She gets carsick when she is not driving. Which is ironic because it doesn’t happen when she is driving and she has had a commercial driving license for decades and she was a city bus driver before we got married and a school bus driver afterwards - mostly for the benefits until two years ago. We sold both of our cars saving $800 a month in car notes and insurance not counting maintenance - I was already working remotely - and we decided to fly everywhere and have a $900/month “Uber budget”. Even before then, I hated everything about car ownership and for year we had one car when I gave my car to my older son who doesn’t live with us. I loved when I went on business trips and didn’t have to drive. We don’t have to worry about car maintenance and repairs and statistically flying long distances is much safer than driving. Another anecdote is that before my son could drive he had a job. We paid about $400 a month for him to take Uber everywhere which was much cheaper than a car note and car insurance for an under 21 year old male ($550). No we couldn’t buy a big six foot three dude an old little beater and I hate dealing with car repairs.
- vorpalhex 4y ago
  Are you buying a new car every 3 years? That car note shouldn't be $400/mo for the life of the car.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    My wife and I have been married since 2012. She had an old beater and we bought a 2011 used Ford Fusion for her($15K) from CarMax. I had a 2008 Honda Civic. In 2015, I gave my car to my older (step)son and bought a 2012 Sonic Fusion ($14k). In 2020 when I started working remotely, my older son who didn’t live with us needed a car so I gave him my Sonic and we lived with one car for a year - I had a permanently remote job at $BigTech by then. We shared the 2011 Fusion. A year later in the summer of 2021 we bought the Hyundai ($36k) and I drove the 2011 Fusion. When we decided to do the digital nomad thing starting in October, we sold the Hyundai back to the dealer for what we owed and saved $750 between the car note and insurance. Right before we left, we sold the Fusion saving another $80 a month in car insurance. Again this doesn’t count car maintenance.

pclmulqdq 4y ago

People who make economic arguments about how Uber/Lyft are so much more efficient than car ownership don't understand the fact that most car owners care a lot about availability. When I need a car, I want to have it, no questions asked, and no "surge" pricing. Personally, I have lived in big cities both with and without a car, and I would absolutely choose to keep my car and pay for parking if I moved back.

redox99 4y ago
Yep. Owning a car is about availability. You want to go to X place at any time, any place? You can walk to your car and do so immediately. The same happens with private jets. Yes, some first class seats are insanely luxurious. But you will never have the same experience as owning your own jet that you can hop on at a moments notice.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- pclmulqdq 4y ago
  I have flown first class and private a few times. IMO international first class is the best flying experience you can get, and beats flying private by a lot (aside from the security...). By the way, I think this is also true of the "luxury" ubers - it's a much better experience than driving.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    >By the way, I think this is also true of the "luxury" ubers - it's a much better experience than driving. Well, sure. In general, being driven is better than driving. If money were no object, I would absolutely book a car service for a night in town rather than driving myself. But that would add about $300 to the evening--which I can afford but wouldn't pay just so I didn't need to drive.
    - pclmulqdq 4y ago

whimsicalism 4y ago

> could only help Having trouble parsing this without hearing it spoken. Do you mean this as a condition for it helping or saying that basically the only possibility is that it is beneficial?

gfaster 4y ago
Sorry for late reply, but I meant the former. I find it plausible that even with robust public transit, the idle miles driven by rideshare do not incur any net benefit.

rufus_foreman 4y ago

>> If the goal is to reduce car ownership That's a pretty weird goal to have. For me the goal is freedom and the pursuit of happiness, part of that would be competitive markets where externalities are priced in, but having "reduce ownership of a certain thing" be a goal is just...strange to me.