7 ms·

I was struggling with this annoyance recently and today decided to finally uninstall the snap. The “close now” is super annoying. I ran “sudo apt install firef

I was struggling with this annoyance recently and today decided to finally uninstall the snap. The “close now” is super annoying. I ran “sudo apt install firefox” and it installed a freaking snap! Today I learned that Ubuntu just decides to install snaps instead of the apt package. What the hell.

cybrexalpha 4y ago
I moved from Ubuntu to Debian because of snaps. I keep apt and the majority of my knowledge of how to run the system, but no snap.
dublinben 4y ago
You might prefer Pop! OS, which is based on Ubuntu, but uses flatpak instead of snaps.
- poszlem 4y ago
  Just to add a data point, I recently went back to Linux after spending years in the MacOS world. Installed Ubuntu out of habit, got the exact same thing happen to me (removed snap, installed firefox through apt, got snap back) and went to Pop OS. Could not be happier with the overall system and still very much disgusted by what Ubuntu decided to do.
  - alpaca128 4y ago
    I've had bad luck with PopOS, but it defniitely has one of the most reasonable and user friendly configurations out of the box.
  - brainchild-adam 4y ago
    Welcome back to Linux! What made you switch from macOS?
    - petre 4y ago
      Not OP but the desktop is super annoying for advanced users with too much mouse usage and things that are super easy in Linux to install from packages require Macports or brew pulling out N squared dependencies.
      - brainchild-adam 4y ago
        Yes, I can relate to that. Next to my Linux machines, I use an M1 Mac Mini with macOS, and I eagerly await the day I can install a Linux of my liking on it and run the Mac from there (looking at Asahi Linux's impressive work). Also, the system update approach of macOS seems quite hostile to slow and/or metered connections.
- comex 4y ago
  Or Debian, which much of Ubuntu is derived from, and where Firefox is still offered as a regular apt package like always.
  - iudqnolq 4y ago
    I can't remember if I manually configured this, and couldn't find docs on if this is the default. On my laptop: - Apt installs traditional deb packages - The software center GUI has a dropdown to pick between Flatpack & Deb, defaulting to Flatpack. I think this is a decent setup. Apt not doing what I'm used to infuriates me, but it feels vibely fitting for a gui to default to Flatpacks.
- sockaddr 4y ago
  Yup. This is the same advice I've gotten from two coworkers. Next time I'm up for a reinstall I think I'll make the jump.
- akdor1154 4y ago
  Pop's Firefox is also a deb package fyi.
oliwarner 4y ago
No contest, it's awful. But you can work around it. https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2022/04/how-to-install-firefox-deb-apt-ubuntu-22-04 https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2022/04/how-to-install-firefox-d...
- remram 4y ago
  Can confirm, I uninstalled snapd the day I installed Ubuntu 22.04 and I have been running it for months. Firefox seems to be the only popular package that redirects to a snap (out of my own usage this whole time, at least). I don't know why they did that, and I am a bit worried I will have to abandon Ubuntu if they move more packages to snaps in the next release. But for now all you need to do is the workaround above for Firefox.
  - dizhn 4y ago
    LXD is also distributed only as snap. I think they are killing it by doing this. It's a shame.
    - noisem4ker 4y ago
      They did the same with Docker.
      - remram 4y ago
        No, docker.io is available in APT: https://packages.ubuntu.com/jammy/docker.io https://packages.ubuntu.com/jammy/docker.io
        noisem4ker 4y ago
        I stand corrected. It looks like there's both a deb and a snap [1]. I now remember getting confused about which one to install, mentally making a note about Docker having been snap'ified, and counting one more strike (perhaps the final one) towards eradicating snap from my system. [1] https://snapcraft.io/docker https://snapcraft.io/docker
angry_octet 4y ago
There's no easy way to ban snaps, apt will keep selecting snapd. But you can try: https://www.tecmint.com/disable-lock-blacklist-package-updates-ubuntu-debian-apt/ https://www.tecmint.com/disable-lock-blacklist-package-updat... Then install flatpak. It has chromium and Firefox.
- chrisandchris 4y ago
  Can't you just remove snapd from your system and it's all good? E.g. https://www.debugpoint.com/remove-snap-ubuntu/?amp=1 https://www.debugpoint.com/remove-snap-ubuntu/?amp=1
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
  Flatpak is awful too.
  - angry_octet 4y ago
    How so?
    - broknbottle 4y ago
      it doesn't respect umask for one. if you're umask is 027, for 750 & 640, you'll get 755 and 644 The most popular repo 'flathub' is filled with flatpak apps that are built from manifests where they are just downloading random debs and extracting them to get the binary instead of actually building anything from source. It's a mullet package manager.. business in the front, party in the back.
    - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
      First of all just the concept of a second package manager is pretty stupid. I only need one. Second, while the idea of sandboxing sounds nice, when it's done to arbitrary packages that might not even be written with sandboxing in mind, all sorts of bugginess can result, in addition to a bunch of friction. E.g on Pop OS the 7zip GUI for linux is a flatpak, and 7zip might leave half made archives around if it crashes during archiving. But now you have to go find some place 8 folders deep into the root filesystem to find and delete it. All sorts of other annoying interactions with filesystems can occur with flatpak'd programs. It just muddies the waters and makes things more complicated. It makes much more sense to just have a reasonable, flexible method of sandboxing, independent of packages, that I can apply to whatever software I want to as needed, like jails on FreeBSD. In short, bundling sandboxing with the package manager breaks with the UNIX philosophy: it does two unrelated things, neither of them well.
hardwaresofton 4y ago
Does it do this on Ubuntu server? I’m assuming not?
justinpombrio 4y ago
Consider Linux Mint. It's based on Ubuntu, but doesn't use the Snap Store. (And from my experience, works like a charm and is well polished.) From the Mint description of the Snap Store: > The Snap Store, also known as the Ubuntu Store, is a commercial centralized software store operated by Canonical. and > This is a store we can’t audit, which contains software nobody can patch. If we can’t fix or modify software, open-source or not, it provides the same limitations as proprietary software. https://linuxmint-user-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/snap.html https://linuxmint-user-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/snap.h... https://linuxmint.com/ https://linuxmint.com/
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- 3np 4y ago
  Less known is LMDE (Linux Mint Debian Edition). Based on Debian instead of Ubuntu; UX mostly identical otherwise. https://linuxmint.com/rel_elsie.php https://linuxmint.com/rel_elsie.php
- pkaye 4y ago
  Do package updates to Linux Mint soon after they come to Ubuntu?
- ilyt 4y ago
  I just use Debian Testing... my install is 13 years old, after many dist-upgrades
  - bityard 4y ago
    Can confirm. Debian + desktop of choice, and everything generally works the way I want.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    > many dist-upgrades They go so smoothly that I always think I must have forgotten something. The only things I've learned to watch out for are networking changes, like the semi-recent interface name changes, network shares (samba protocol changes), and updates on stuff relating to encryption standards (ssh/ssl.)
ilyt 4y ago
That solidifies my opinion of canonical just picking good distro as base then going around breaking shit... Like... wtf ? They'd had to patch apt to even do that...
- matkoniecz 4y ago
  For example `sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade` CLI log now includes an ad see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-advantage-tools/+bug/1992026 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-advantage-t...
  - ilyt 4y ago
    I didn't touch ubuntu for a while (just have to support it for some work stuff) and damn the more I hear the worse it gets... wtf
  - justinclift 4y ago
    Yeah. There's a lot of silliness I'll forgive, but adding ads into cli utils was the "Ubuntu has jumped the shark" moment for me. Now they've stepped onto this slippery slope, I don't intend to be on the ride with them on the way down.
- Spivak 4y ago
  No they don’t, packages can do whatever they want on install and uninstall. You install a package called firefox that on install installs the snap and on uninstall removes it.

cybrexalpha 4y ago

I moved from Ubuntu to Debian because of snaps. I keep apt and the majority of my knowledge of how to run the system, but no snap.

dublinben 4y ago

You might prefer Pop! OS, which is based on Ubuntu, but uses flatpak instead of snaps.

poszlem 4y ago
Just to add a data point, I recently went back to Linux after spending years in the MacOS world. Installed Ubuntu out of habit, got the exact same thing happen to me (removed snap, installed firefox through apt, got snap back) and went to Pop OS. Could not be happier with the overall system and still very much disgusted by what Ubuntu decided to do.
- alpaca128 4y ago
  I've had bad luck with PopOS, but it defniitely has one of the most reasonable and user friendly configurations out of the box.
- brainchild-adam 4y ago
  Welcome back to Linux! What made you switch from macOS?
  - petre 4y ago
    Not OP but the desktop is super annoying for advanced users with too much mouse usage and things that are super easy in Linux to install from packages require Macports or brew pulling out N squared dependencies.
    - brainchild-adam 4y ago
      Yes, I can relate to that. Next to my Linux machines, I use an M1 Mac Mini with macOS, and I eagerly await the day I can install a Linux of my liking on it and run the Mac from there (looking at Asahi Linux's impressive work). Also, the system update approach of macOS seems quite hostile to slow and/or metered connections.
comex 4y ago
Or Debian, which much of Ubuntu is derived from, and where Firefox is still offered as a regular apt package like always.
- iudqnolq 4y ago
  I can't remember if I manually configured this, and couldn't find docs on if this is the default. On my laptop: - Apt installs traditional deb packages - The software center GUI has a dropdown to pick between Flatpack & Deb, defaulting to Flatpack. I think this is a decent setup. Apt not doing what I'm used to infuriates me, but it feels vibely fitting for a gui to default to Flatpacks.
sockaddr 4y ago
Yup. This is the same advice I've gotten from two coworkers. Next time I'm up for a reinstall I think I'll make the jump.
akdor1154 4y ago
Pop's Firefox is also a deb package fyi.

oliwarner 4y ago

No contest, it's awful. But you can work around it. https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2022/04/how-to-install-firefox-deb-apt-ubuntu-22-04 https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2022/04/how-to-install-firefox-d...

remram 4y ago
Can confirm, I uninstalled snapd the day I installed Ubuntu 22.04 and I have been running it for months. Firefox seems to be the only popular package that redirects to a snap (out of my own usage this whole time, at least). I don't know why they did that, and I am a bit worried I will have to abandon Ubuntu if they move more packages to snaps in the next release. But for now all you need to do is the workaround above for Firefox.
- dizhn 4y ago
  LXD is also distributed only as snap. I think they are killing it by doing this. It's a shame.
  - noisem4ker 4y ago
    They did the same with Docker.
    - remram 4y ago
      No, docker.io is available in APT: https://packages.ubuntu.com/jammy/docker.io https://packages.ubuntu.com/jammy/docker.io
      - noisem4ker 4y ago
        I stand corrected. It looks like there's both a deb and a snap [1]. I now remember getting confused about which one to install, mentally making a note about Docker having been snap'ified, and counting one more strike (perhaps the final one) towards eradicating snap from my system. [1] https://snapcraft.io/docker https://snapcraft.io/docker

angry_octet 4y ago

There's no easy way to ban snaps, apt will keep selecting snapd. But you can try: https://www.tecmint.com/disable-lock-blacklist-package-updates-ubuntu-debian-apt/ https://www.tecmint.com/disable-lock-blacklist-package-updat... Then install flatpak. It has chromium and Firefox.

chrisandchris 4y ago
Can't you just remove snapd from your system and it's all good? E.g. https://www.debugpoint.com/remove-snap-ubuntu/?amp=1 https://www.debugpoint.com/remove-snap-ubuntu/?amp=1
mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
Flatpak is awful too.
- angry_octet 4y ago
  How so?
  - broknbottle 4y ago
    it doesn't respect umask for one. if you're umask is 027, for 750 & 640, you'll get 755 and 644 The most popular repo 'flathub' is filled with flatpak apps that are built from manifests where they are just downloading random debs and extracting them to get the binary instead of actually building anything from source. It's a mullet package manager.. business in the front, party in the back.
  - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
    First of all just the concept of a second package manager is pretty stupid. I only need one. Second, while the idea of sandboxing sounds nice, when it's done to arbitrary packages that might not even be written with sandboxing in mind, all sorts of bugginess can result, in addition to a bunch of friction. E.g on Pop OS the 7zip GUI for linux is a flatpak, and 7zip might leave half made archives around if it crashes during archiving. But now you have to go find some place 8 folders deep into the root filesystem to find and delete it. All sorts of other annoying interactions with filesystems can occur with flatpak'd programs. It just muddies the waters and makes things more complicated. It makes much more sense to just have a reasonable, flexible method of sandboxing, independent of packages, that I can apply to whatever software I want to as needed, like jails on FreeBSD. In short, bundling sandboxing with the package manager breaks with the UNIX philosophy: it does two unrelated things, neither of them well.

hardwaresofton 4y ago

Does it do this on Ubuntu server? I’m assuming not?

justinpombrio 4y ago

Consider Linux Mint. It's based on Ubuntu, but doesn't use the Snap Store. (And from my experience, works like a charm and is well polished.) From the Mint description of the Snap Store: > The Snap Store, also known as the Ubuntu Store, is a commercial centralized software store operated by Canonical. and > This is a store we can’t audit, which contains software nobody can patch. If we can’t fix or modify software, open-source or not, it provides the same limitations as proprietary software. https://linuxmint-user-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/snap.html https://linuxmint-user-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/snap.h... https://linuxmint.com/ https://linuxmint.com/

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
3np 4y ago
Less known is LMDE (Linux Mint Debian Edition). Based on Debian instead of Ubuntu; UX mostly identical otherwise. https://linuxmint.com/rel_elsie.php https://linuxmint.com/rel_elsie.php
pkaye 4y ago
Do package updates to Linux Mint soon after they come to Ubuntu?
ilyt 4y ago
I just use Debian Testing... my install is 13 years old, after many dist-upgrades
- bityard 4y ago
  Can confirm. Debian + desktop of choice, and everything generally works the way I want.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  > many dist-upgrades They go so smoothly that I always think I must have forgotten something. The only things I've learned to watch out for are networking changes, like the semi-recent interface name changes, network shares (samba protocol changes), and updates on stuff relating to encryption standards (ssh/ssl.)

ilyt 4y ago

That solidifies my opinion of canonical just picking good distro as base then going around breaking shit... Like... wtf ? They'd had to patch apt to even do that...

matkoniecz 4y ago
For example `sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade` CLI log now includes an ad see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-advantage-tools/+bug/1992026 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-advantage-t...
- ilyt 4y ago
  I didn't touch ubuntu for a while (just have to support it for some work stuff) and damn the more I hear the worse it gets... wtf
- justinclift 4y ago
  Yeah. There's a lot of silliness I'll forgive, but adding ads into cli utils was the "Ubuntu has jumped the shark" moment for me. Now they've stepped onto this slippery slope, I don't intend to be on the ride with them on the way down.
Spivak 4y ago
No they don’t, packages can do whatever they want on install and uninstall. You install a package called firefox that on install installs the snap and on uninstall removes it.