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This is a very narrow perspective coming from someone who gets forced to use snap to install very specific packages, but snap always kind of gives off... I'm no

This is a very narrow perspective coming from someone who gets forced to use snap to install very specific packages, but snap always kind of gives off... I'm not sure how to verbalize this other than "bad vibes", especially compared to it's package management competition in aptitude. Is this a common experience or am I crazy?

kelnos 4y ago
I think the bad vibes come from the fact that Snap is a proprietary, walled-garden system owned by Canonical. The server is not open source, so no one else can run their own Snap Store. It's antithetical to pretty much everything about what we think of as a "Linux distro". I would absolutely never run Ubuntu or install Snap because of this. I'll stick with Debian, thanks.
- Darmody 4y ago
  I think it's not only that. In my opinion is also about how Canonical handles everything. Everyday they look and act more like Microsoft. Empty words to sell you something, to convince you they're better. You can't really act like Microsoft with people that are using your OS because they ran away from Microsoft and expect them to shut up.
  - matkoniecz 4y ago
    For example `sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade` CLI log now includes an ad see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-advantage-tools/+bug/1992026 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-advantage-t... It advertises some Commercial product by Canonical and /r/linux subreddit.
    - rpgmaker 4y ago
      Didn't know it had gotten that bad. I stopped using it when it was clear the desktop was no longer a priority for them. Not blaming them since they're a private company but with so many alternatives there's no need to use a second class Linux "desktop". Fedora is more than great imho.
  - geekbird 4y ago
    Worse, they lock down and make their standard UI not able to be customized, and keep "deprecating" standard UI tools and configs in favor of some junior intern's idea of how real users "should" work. This sucks, and is why I won't run Ubuntu on any desktop. If I wanted to be told how to use a desktop by an OS, I'd get a f'ing Windows box or a Mac. I use Linux because I can configure it to work the way I want. If they take that away, they are just another proprietary pile of shit.
  - account-5 4y ago
    And Apple.
- VWWHFSfQ 4y ago
  snap is the naggiest thing in my computer. it seems like almost every day it's popping up notifications that snap store needs to do something and that I have like 4 days left and then I click on the notification and nothing happens. I have no idea what to do. why is desktop linux still such a piece of crap
  - matkoniecz 4y ago
    > why is desktop linux still such a piece of crap Snap infestation is highest in Ubuntu - so I am planning to switch to some alternative (and due to other Canonical excesses like ads in CLI system tools). My current candidates are Debian and Pop!OS.
    - rpgmaker 4y ago
      Try Fedora. I used to be an ubuntu guy, changed to Fedora KDE years ago and never looked back.
    - entropicdrifter 4y ago
      Consider Linux Mint as well. It's about as close to "Ubuntu without Snaps" as you can get while still having a separate community and dedicated devs.
  - nequo 4y ago
    Snaps are annoying. But Ubuntu is not the same as desktop Linux. Some alternatives: Linux Mint,[1] Fedora[2] or Silverblue,[3] Pop!_OS.[4] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Mint https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Mint [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedora_Linux https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedora_Linux [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedora_Linux#Silverblue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedora_Linux#Silverblue [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop!_OS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop!_OS
    - entropicdrifter 4y ago
      THIS! I run Mint 21 on my main PC with the Liquorix kernel (for game performance and desktop responsiveness under load), and it's everything I want out of a Linux distro. More stable and easy to maintain than Arch or Manjaro, more open than Pop!_OS, and just as intuitive as Ubuntu without any Snaps.
- Mikeb85 4y ago
  > Snap is a proprietary, walled-garden system owned by Canonical. How do you figure? It's all open source, you can easily see it on GitHub... I know Ubuntu hosts snaps on their servers, but every distro does that. What's the proprietary part?
  - pxc 4y ago
    The server itself is proprietary and the Snap client is hardcoded to point to Canonical's servers (repos are not configurable). There have been proof-of-concept server implementations by third parties, and some of those have been open-source. But IIRC none of them are maintained or used anywhere. It could be worse, but at the end of the day it still just seems like a controlling, proto-monopolistic design compared to something like Flatpak, or to any traditional package management repos on Linux.
    - Mikeb85 4y ago
      > The server itself is proprietary and the Snap client is hardcoded to point to Canonical's servers (repos are not configurable). So fork it and change the code. This isn't the definition of "proprietary". There's still nothing stopping people from having their own snap store except a lil effort.
      - pxc 4y ago
        A client/server application where the server is proprietary isn't really a free software application as far as I'm concerned, even if the server is easy to clone. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I expect better from 'open-source' in my personal computing life, and competitors seem happy to deliver it. If that makes me fussy, oh well.
barnabee 4y ago
Snap was what made me switch back to Debian from Ubuntu. In the process I discovered that every issue and friction that had got me to try Ubuntu initially has been more than adequately solved by Debian now. IMO Debian is by far the saner distribution these days and there’s no reason at all to use Ubuntu for most people.
- vdfs 4y ago
  Debian is good if you don't want up to date browsers, the only shock i had when i tried Debian after this snap fiasco, ironically that's among things snap is trying to solve (quick updates)
  - vanous 4y ago
    >Debian is good if you don't want up to date browsers, the only shock i had when i tried Debian after this snap fiasco, ironically that's among things snap is trying to solve (quick updates) You mean Debian stable. But you have a choice, you can select testing or unstable, which gives you newer software.
    - mort96 4y ago
      Debian Testing only has Firefox ESR, currently version 102. Unstable has Firefox 104, which was released in August and is 3 releases behind...
      - geekbird 4y ago
        Not everyone needs bleeding edge.
        mort96 4y ago
        Sooo... Debian is good if you don't want up to date browsers.
        4y ago
yamtaddle 4y ago
Nah. None of the three big similar solutions to this (AppImage, Flatpack) feel quite like they're the right way to do this, but Snap manages to feel distinctly more-wrong than the others, without any accompanying unique benefits to offset that.
kunwon1 4y ago
I don't think you're crazy. My main gripe with Snap the last time I evaluated the system was that they will not let you disable automatic updates, as a matter of policy [1] I do not know if this is still the policy 5 years later [1] https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/disabling-automatic-refresh-for-snap-from-store/707/4 https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/disabling-automatic-refresh-for...
- jacquesm 4y ago
  They do now, see upthread.
ProAm 4y ago
I agree. I understand why they are doing it, but I dont feel good using it. It has me wanting to switch to Fedora for no other reason beyond it makes me feel like my computer isn't my computer anymore.
wing-_-nuts 4y ago
I despise snap. There's a reason why we use apt / yum / pacman or whatever, and that's because traditional package management works. When I install something through snap or flatpack, invariably it starts slower, has worse performance, is much more bloated and is generally a much more janky experience than just getting it from the apt repo. Snaps are the number one reason why I use popOS or mint over ubuntu.
- geekbird 4y ago
  IMO Snap is nothing more than bloatware designed as a resume building project by newby programmers.
geekbird 4y ago
As a sysadmin, I loathe "Snap". There are two main packaging systems for Linux that are well known and usable. You can also use standard config management software to roll out configs for each package. Snap is a solution in search for a problem by people who are too lazy to use standard packaging that has been in existence for decades. Listen up kids: "New" is seldom "better" when it comes to system tools. Put your creativity to applications, not trying to reinvent the wheel with "new" packaging systems. Snap is a bloated mess, and we wish is was not on any system we administer.

kelnos 4y ago

I think the bad vibes come from the fact that Snap is a proprietary, walled-garden system owned by Canonical. The server is not open source, so no one else can run their own Snap Store. It's antithetical to pretty much everything about what we think of as a "Linux distro". I would absolutely never run Ubuntu or install Snap because of this. I'll stick with Debian, thanks.

Darmody 4y ago
I think it's not only that. In my opinion is also about how Canonical handles everything. Everyday they look and act more like Microsoft. Empty words to sell you something, to convince you they're better. You can't really act like Microsoft with people that are using your OS because they ran away from Microsoft and expect them to shut up.
- matkoniecz 4y ago
  For example `sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade` CLI log now includes an ad see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-advantage-tools/+bug/1992026 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-advantage-t... It advertises some Commercial product by Canonical and /r/linux subreddit.
  - rpgmaker 4y ago
    Didn't know it had gotten that bad. I stopped using it when it was clear the desktop was no longer a priority for them. Not blaming them since they're a private company but with so many alternatives there's no need to use a second class Linux "desktop". Fedora is more than great imho.
- geekbird 4y ago
  Worse, they lock down and make their standard UI not able to be customized, and keep "deprecating" standard UI tools and configs in favor of some junior intern's idea of how real users "should" work. This sucks, and is why I won't run Ubuntu on any desktop. If I wanted to be told how to use a desktop by an OS, I'd get a f'ing Windows box or a Mac. I use Linux because I can configure it to work the way I want. If they take that away, they are just another proprietary pile of shit.
- account-5 4y ago
  And Apple.
VWWHFSfQ 4y ago
snap is the naggiest thing in my computer. it seems like almost every day it's popping up notifications that snap store needs to do something and that I have like 4 days left and then I click on the notification and nothing happens. I have no idea what to do. why is desktop linux still such a piece of crap
- matkoniecz 4y ago
  > why is desktop linux still such a piece of crap Snap infestation is highest in Ubuntu - so I am planning to switch to some alternative (and due to other Canonical excesses like ads in CLI system tools). My current candidates are Debian and Pop!OS.
  - rpgmaker 4y ago
    Try Fedora. I used to be an ubuntu guy, changed to Fedora KDE years ago and never looked back.
  - entropicdrifter 4y ago
    Consider Linux Mint as well. It's about as close to "Ubuntu without Snaps" as you can get while still having a separate community and dedicated devs.
- nequo 4y ago
  Snaps are annoying. But Ubuntu is not the same as desktop Linux. Some alternatives: Linux Mint,[1] Fedora[2] or Silverblue,[3] Pop!_OS.[4] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Mint https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Mint [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedora_Linux https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedora_Linux [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedora_Linux#Silverblue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedora_Linux#Silverblue [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop!_OS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop!_OS
  - entropicdrifter 4y ago
    THIS! I run Mint 21 on my main PC with the Liquorix kernel (for game performance and desktop responsiveness under load), and it's everything I want out of a Linux distro. More stable and easy to maintain than Arch or Manjaro, more open than Pop!_OS, and just as intuitive as Ubuntu without any Snaps.
Mikeb85 4y ago
> Snap is a proprietary, walled-garden system owned by Canonical. How do you figure? It's all open source, you can easily see it on GitHub... I know Ubuntu hosts snaps on their servers, but every distro does that. What's the proprietary part?
- pxc 4y ago
  The server itself is proprietary and the Snap client is hardcoded to point to Canonical's servers (repos are not configurable). There have been proof-of-concept server implementations by third parties, and some of those have been open-source. But IIRC none of them are maintained or used anywhere. It could be worse, but at the end of the day it still just seems like a controlling, proto-monopolistic design compared to something like Flatpak, or to any traditional package management repos on Linux.
  - Mikeb85 4y ago
    > The server itself is proprietary and the Snap client is hardcoded to point to Canonical's servers (repos are not configurable). So fork it and change the code. This isn't the definition of "proprietary". There's still nothing stopping people from having their own snap store except a lil effort.
    - pxc 4y ago
      A client/server application where the server is proprietary isn't really a free software application as far as I'm concerned, even if the server is easy to clone. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I expect better from 'open-source' in my personal computing life, and competitors seem happy to deliver it. If that makes me fussy, oh well.

barnabee 4y ago

Snap was what made me switch back to Debian from Ubuntu. In the process I discovered that every issue and friction that had got me to try Ubuntu initially has been more than adequately solved by Debian now. IMO Debian is by far the saner distribution these days and there’s no reason at all to use Ubuntu for most people.

vdfs 4y ago
Debian is good if you don't want up to date browsers, the only shock i had when i tried Debian after this snap fiasco, ironically that's among things snap is trying to solve (quick updates)
- vanous 4y ago
  >Debian is good if you don't want up to date browsers, the only shock i had when i tried Debian after this snap fiasco, ironically that's among things snap is trying to solve (quick updates) You mean Debian stable. But you have a choice, you can select testing or unstable, which gives you newer software.
  - mort96 4y ago
    Debian Testing only has Firefox ESR, currently version 102. Unstable has Firefox 104, which was released in August and is 3 releases behind...
    - geekbird 4y ago
      Not everyone needs bleeding edge.
      - mort96 4y ago
        Sooo... Debian is good if you don't want up to date browsers.
        4y ago

yamtaddle 4y ago

Nah. None of the three big similar solutions to this (AppImage, Flatpack) feel quite like they're the right way to do this, but Snap manages to feel distinctly more-wrong than the others, without any accompanying unique benefits to offset that.

kunwon1 4y ago

I don't think you're crazy. My main gripe with Snap the last time I evaluated the system was that they will not let you disable automatic updates, as a matter of policy [1] I do not know if this is still the policy 5 years later [1] https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/disabling-automatic-refresh-for-snap-from-store/707/4 https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/disabling-automatic-refresh-for...

jacquesm 4y ago
They do now, see upthread.

ProAm 4y ago

I agree. I understand why they are doing it, but I dont feel good using it. It has me wanting to switch to Fedora for no other reason beyond it makes me feel like my computer isn't my computer anymore.

wing-_-nuts 4y ago

I despise snap. There's a reason why we use apt / yum / pacman or whatever, and that's because traditional package management works. When I install something through snap or flatpack, invariably it starts slower, has worse performance, is much more bloated and is generally a much more janky experience than just getting it from the apt repo. Snaps are the number one reason why I use popOS or mint over ubuntu.

geekbird 4y ago
IMO Snap is nothing more than bloatware designed as a resume building project by newby programmers.

geekbird 4y ago

As a sysadmin, I loathe "Snap". There are two main packaging systems for Linux that are well known and usable. You can also use standard config management software to roll out configs for each package. Snap is a solution in search for a problem by people who are too lazy to use standard packaging that has been in existence for decades. Listen up kids: "New" is seldom "better" when it comes to system tools. Put your creativity to applications, not trying to reinvent the wheel with "new" packaging systems. Snap is a bloated mess, and we wish is was not on any system we administer.