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I think they kind of have. Musk replied "that's fine" to Ye posting the Musk yacht photo and "that is not" to the Star of David Nazi symbol which suggests that

by atchoo 4y ago

I think they kind of have. Musk replied "that's fine" to Ye posting the Musk yacht photo and "that is not" to the Star of David Nazi symbol which suggests that was the final line for the ban. The "going deathcon one on the Jews", which led to the pre-Musk ban, is arguably a more explictly a violent threat than the symbol.

themitigating 4y ago
The swastika itself represents historical violence on the Jews. I would argue it alone is an explicit threat of violence because I can't see what other meaning today it could have?
- bashinator 4y ago
  My parents have a vintage carpet with some eastern (counterclockwise) swastikas on it. That said, the context around your comment is completely apparent and the downvote are troubling to say the least. I hope it's just unhelpful pedantry rather than pedantry as a cover for bigotry.
- hutzlibu 4y ago
  The swastiska has had a very long history, before the Nazis misused it for their purpose. wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika So when kayne used it, of course he referred to the Nazi symbol and just wanted attention and strongly hint at his antisemitism. But other people can mean something very different: "In several major Indo-European religions, the swastika symbolises lightning bolts, representing the thunder god and the king of the gods, such as Indra in Vedic Hinduism, Zeus in the ancient Greek religion, Jupiter in the ancient Roman religion, and Thor in the ancient Germanic religion."
  - themitigating 4y ago
    I'm aware, I'm sure most people are because this tidbit is always brought up when the swastika is discussed. The context is clear all around though
    - lamontcg 4y ago
      Stanning for the swastika is one of the weirdest modern internet fetishes.
    - hutzlibu 4y ago
      "The context is clear all around though" Then why make this generalised statement? " I can't see what other meaning today it could have?" Because I know people who are into germanic livestyle and they are NOT nazis, but they would like to use that old symbol freely. So that is one counterexample. There are people today who use the swastika who explicitley do not refer to the nazis. But like I said, when people like kayne use the swastika, their meaning is very clear and different.
    - encryptluks2 4y ago
      Should we be burning school books and cancelling movies about the Holocaust because they have swastikas? Like it or not it is free speech and shouldn't be banned.
      - shadowgovt 4y ago
        I'd stand against a government doing that. If an individual book owner decides to have a backyard barbecue of all their pro-Nazi propaganda or an individual theater owner doesn't feel comfortable running Jojo Rabbit, that's up to them.
        encryptluks2 4y ago
        Yes, but when they claim to support free speech and then turn around and do the opposite it is best to call them out on it. The reason for my hyperbole response was because here we are talking about Twitter and free speech, and some people are avidly in support of banning things and people they don't like.
        shadowgovt 4y ago
        Within the law, Twitter is well within their rights to ban things and people Musk doesn't like.
- atchoo 4y ago
  Oh don't get me wrong, they are both unacceptable and I haven't and don't want to see the symbol tweet. I personally find words more impactful, revealing of intent and suggesting action than symbols. I say arguable because I don't which was worse, or if it's a worthy discussion, but the deathcon tweet is enough for me to see an unwell/dangerous person that needs a ban just to save them from themselves let alone anyone else.
  - encryptluks2 4y ago
    Defcon levels have to do with defense not attack.
    - dekhn 4y ago
      yes but we're talking about deathcon levels, which are an entirely different thing!
    - Yoric 4y ago
      Well, it's still mobilizing the army. Plus, "death con".
    - krapp 4y ago
      That isn't true in common parlance.
      - encryptluks2 4y ago
        It literally stands for defense readiness condition
        krapp 4y ago
        And yet humans aren't computers, and the meaning of phrases in popular culture isn't always determined by strict literal definition. Most people would interpret the phrase "I’m a bit sleepy tonight but when I wake up I’m going (def) con 3 On JEWISH PEOPLE" to mean preparing to go to war or enter into conflict against, not preparing to defend against an attack from, jewish people.
lesuorac 4y ago
It's was death con 3 not 1. Which makes it even weirder since 3 is the middle. But that's also assuming he meant defcon which is something we probably shouldn't do. Should stick to the words he's actually saying and w.r.t. the "going death ... on jewish people" is pretty black/white on inciting violence. But it was only a temporarily ban that he got following that tweet (which twitter1.0 did claim to do )[1]. Afaik, nobody at twitter2.0 has made a clear statement as to what tweet caused the permanent suspension. Just commenting "that is not" is not at all the same as saying "and this will get you banned". [1]: https://www.politico.com/news/2022/10/10/kanye-wests-twitter-instagram-locked-over-offensive-posts-00061089 https://www.politico.com/news/2022/10/10/kanye-wests-twitter...

by atchoo 4y ago

themitigating 4y ago

The swastika itself represents historical violence on the Jews. I would argue it alone is an explicit threat of violence because I can't see what other meaning today it could have?

bashinator 4y ago
My parents have a vintage carpet with some eastern (counterclockwise) swastikas on it. That said, the context around your comment is completely apparent and the downvote are troubling to say the least. I hope it's just unhelpful pedantry rather than pedantry as a cover for bigotry.
hutzlibu 4y ago
The swastiska has had a very long history, before the Nazis misused it for their purpose. wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika So when kayne used it, of course he referred to the Nazi symbol and just wanted attention and strongly hint at his antisemitism. But other people can mean something very different: "In several major Indo-European religions, the swastika symbolises lightning bolts, representing the thunder god and the king of the gods, such as Indra in Vedic Hinduism, Zeus in the ancient Greek religion, Jupiter in the ancient Roman religion, and Thor in the ancient Germanic religion."
- themitigating 4y ago
  I'm aware, I'm sure most people are because this tidbit is always brought up when the swastika is discussed. The context is clear all around though
  - lamontcg 4y ago
    Stanning for the swastika is one of the weirdest modern internet fetishes.
  - hutzlibu 4y ago
    "The context is clear all around though" Then why make this generalised statement? " I can't see what other meaning today it could have?" Because I know people who are into germanic livestyle and they are NOT nazis, but they would like to use that old symbol freely. So that is one counterexample. There are people today who use the swastika who explicitley do not refer to the nazis. But like I said, when people like kayne use the swastika, their meaning is very clear and different.
  - encryptluks2 4y ago
    Should we be burning school books and cancelling movies about the Holocaust because they have swastikas? Like it or not it is free speech and shouldn't be banned.
    - shadowgovt 4y ago
      I'd stand against a government doing that. If an individual book owner decides to have a backyard barbecue of all their pro-Nazi propaganda or an individual theater owner doesn't feel comfortable running Jojo Rabbit, that's up to them.
      - encryptluks2 4y ago
        Yes, but when they claim to support free speech and then turn around and do the opposite it is best to call them out on it. The reason for my hyperbole response was because here we are talking about Twitter and free speech, and some people are avidly in support of banning things and people they don't like.
        shadowgovt 4y ago
        Within the law, Twitter is well within their rights to ban things and people Musk doesn't like.
atchoo 4y ago
Oh don't get me wrong, they are both unacceptable and I haven't and don't want to see the symbol tweet. I personally find words more impactful, revealing of intent and suggesting action than symbols. I say arguable because I don't which was worse, or if it's a worthy discussion, but the deathcon tweet is enough for me to see an unwell/dangerous person that needs a ban just to save them from themselves let alone anyone else.
- encryptluks2 4y ago
  Defcon levels have to do with defense not attack.
  - dekhn 4y ago
    yes but we're talking about deathcon levels, which are an entirely different thing!
  - Yoric 4y ago
    Well, it's still mobilizing the army. Plus, "death con".
  - krapp 4y ago
    That isn't true in common parlance.
    - encryptluks2 4y ago
      It literally stands for defense readiness condition
      - krapp 4y ago
        And yet humans aren't computers, and the meaning of phrases in popular culture isn't always determined by strict literal definition. Most people would interpret the phrase "I’m a bit sleepy tonight but when I wake up I’m going (def) con 3 On JEWISH PEOPLE" to mean preparing to go to war or enter into conflict against, not preparing to defend against an attack from, jewish people.

lesuorac 4y ago

It's was death con 3 not 1. Which makes it even weirder since 3 is the middle. But that's also assuming he meant defcon which is something we probably shouldn't do. Should stick to the words he's actually saying and w.r.t. the "going death ... on jewish people" is pretty black/white on inciting violence. But it was only a temporarily ban that he got following that tweet (which twitter1.0 did claim to do )[1]. Afaik, nobody at twitter2.0 has made a clear statement as to what tweet caused the permanent suspension. Just commenting "that is not" is not at all the same as saying "and this will get you banned". [1]: https://www.politico.com/news/2022/10/10/kanye-wests-twitter-instagram-locked-over-offensive-posts-00061089 https://www.politico.com/news/2022/10/10/kanye-wests-twitter...