6 ms·

I know people like that. Typically they make passive income from their assets (stocks and real estate). But they don't want to admit it, so they make up fake jo

I know people like that. Typically they make passive income from their assets (stocks and real estate). But they don't want to admit it, so they make up fake jobs like "day trading and selling online products".

jerf 4y ago
Keep an eye out on these people. Lots of things were possible in a 0% interest rate environment that aren't now. This could be brilliant people working an incredible job they don't need to work full time on, or they may be the individual version of a corporation surviving only because the interest rate environment is 0%. They don't even have to be directly taking out loans to do it themselves, only taking advantage of economic conditions created by cheap money. "Stocks" haven't been a great source of passive income this year, and "real estate" is showing signs of having just passed its peak. These easy jobs may not survive these things contracting. Of course, if they're walking off with cash rather than debt, they may still be among the winners of the whole 0% interest regime.
- trinsic2 4y ago
  I haven't worked for the corporate world since 2004. When I got back from a trip to Europe I realized I was working myself into the ground and decided to take the hit and start my own business. Now I set my own hours. I think that the time off from work during the pandemic is making others reconsider working for someone else. I laughed out loud when I read some corporate slave droning on about people don't want to work. Stop treating people like cogs in a wheel and create something that society values thats ethical. And maybe, just maybe, you will retain people who actually care about what you do.
  - fallingknife 4y ago
    Well, it worked out for you, but starting your own business is usually exactly the wrong move for someone who doesn't want to work themself into the ground.
    - trinsic2 4y ago
      I guess it would depend on the venture. Do something you love to do, and you never work a day in your life. It takes time and dedication, but I didn't work myself into the ground doing it. But I did have part time jobs when I was starting out. I think its something you create for yourself that grows over time, when you work at a job, you are enriching someone else's vision. That's ok if your visions are aligned, but if you are working at a job that doesn't align with your value system, there is only so much of that you can take.
      - fallingknife 4y ago
        This can certainly be true, but the catch is when you say I love to do x so I will start a business to do x, it's not so simple. You now have to do x + sales + customer service + management, etc. And while it is possible that you love to do all of those things, in the great majority of cases, you don't, and it will be a grind. That's not to say it's not worth it, though.
        trinsic2 4y ago
        You wont know until you try. I found that doing something you love, you will try anything to make it happen. It starts out small and its not like it requires one to be solid in every area of the business right away like the areas you mentioned. Some times people want to compete against well established markets and that is a recepie for disaster. But again, it depends on the niche you have decided on. Also it takes time and people cut you slack if you are delivering value to them that's authentic. I found this source great for starting new business: https://fronterablog.com/ https://fronterablog.com/
  - jerf 4y ago
    That's actually orthogonal to my point. Plenty of people have "lifestyle businesses", but if they generate true value, it's not a mystery as to where the money is coming from. Consult for 20 hours a week, just as an example, and I'm not even slightly mystified at how you can live on that income. I'm not advocating a suit-and-tie, 40hour/week desk job as the only alternative. Were I single I'd probably work half-time myself. I'm talking more about the Amazon drop-shipping businesses where "you can earn $5K/week!!1!" where if it's really that easy the market should already have been consumed, or even the ones you just plain can't figure out where the money is coming from. There's a lot of "businesses" that work in a 0% interest environment that won't work in a 5+% environment. If you've been doing it since 2004, you are almost certainly not in such a space because you started in a non-0% interest environment. I mean, basically, it's just like how the crypto business space is completely collapsing now. They are the first big things to topple over in a non-0%-environment. Smaller analogs to that can happen too, it just won't make the news that Joe-down-the-street's business of importing bulk cheap IP-pirated stuff from China and distributing it to local parents who want cheap Disney-branded stuff went out of business because it turns out that even though he didn't take loans himself, every other company involved in his business was offering subsidized, not-truly-sustainable prices because of the cheap money environment. (If you don't know, that's a real thing, not an outrageous fake example I'm making up. I have a particular acquaintance in mind who did that as a side hustle for a while.)
    - trinsic2 4y ago
      Yea generating value is really important. I think that trying to make money with out creating some kind of value is a dead end in more ways than one.
- axus 4y ago
  Kind of funny that it's the well-off that are "doing the jobs Americans can't afford to do"
  - entropicdrifter 4y ago
    It's been that way for most of history. Most great artists, philosophers, scientists, and politicians were either born into wealth or had wealthy patrons they met by networking with the wealthy at e.g. country clubs, concert halls, or elite universities.
mjr00 4y ago
Yeah it's almost certainly this. In Western culture, and probably others, your job is closely tied to your identity. Even if you don't feel so yourself, it greatly affects how others perceive you. After all, when you meet a new person, one of the first things you ask them is, "What do you do [for a living]?" If you're living off passive income, answering that question can be complicated. So you just make up something like "being a consultant" or "doing online sales." It's pretty similar with generational wealth. I know someone who has been working doing script reviews in Hollywood for 10 years now. It's definitely paid work, but maybe a few thousand a month; the rest of their lifestyle is financed by their parents, who run a real estate business. But it's a lot easier, socially, to say "I'm a script writer and reviewer" than to say "I don't work, my parents pay for everything."
- JohnFen 4y ago
  > After all, when you meet a new person, one of the first things you ask them is, "What do you do [for a living]?" Not in my part of the US. I've rarely been asked, and have never asked unless it was pertinent to an ongoing discussion.
- adamsmith143 4y ago
  Who are they fooling? No one buys that you can have a brand new Mercedes and live in a high rise apartment by "reviewing a few scripts" every few months.
  - mjr00 4y ago
    Sure, but he has a Civic from the mid-2000s and lives in a typically-priced LA low-rise rental apartment in an okay-but-not-amazing neighborhood. Funnily enough, he's dating a girl in a very similar situation who currently has an occupation of "pet sitter." If you actually sat down and did the math, it'd be obvious. But most people don't think that hard about it, and will accept an answer of "I'm a script writer" in the context of e.g. telling a Tinder date what you do for a living.
    - ghaff 4y ago
ldjkfkdsjnv 4y ago
Nah they have almost no savings for retirement/in general. They may inherit their parents home, but thats a long ways off. But when you hang with them, you realize that when working full time you are missing out on psychological states and experiences that are taken from you by having a full time job.
- mjr00 4y ago
  > But when you hang with them, you realize that when working full time you are missing out on psychological states and experiences that are taken from you by having a full time job. In my experience, the "experiences" that single, underemployed people of working age (20s to 40s) have are largely watching shitloads of Netflix and YouTube. After all, even if they aren't working a fulltime job, most of their friends are. And even if they find friends who are also underemployed, finances will be tight for both of them, so what exactly can they do together? Usually just hang out at each others' places and watch Netflix and YouTube. Admittedly this could look a lot different for those with kids, though.
  - scarecrowbob 4y ago
    Maybe? My kids graduated and I moved to SW CO. I have a lot of friends in their early 20s and look at them with the perspective of someone with children that age. I know a whole lot of ski bums, dirt bag climbers, rafting guides, semi-pro slack liners or whatever. Sound healers and yogis. To be clear, I'm sure there are plenty of folks watching shitloads of video, but I don't know them because of selection bias. And I know that some of them are trustifarians and others are sociopathic scammers. Personally, I like my remote coding job. I'm also underemployed but the job is easy and has gentle requirements on me. So I'm a bit removed from what these folks are doing. However, the folks I know are generally having a much better time than just sitting around watching netflix, and the comment about having experiences taken from us by having full time jobs is a real thing from my position: being able to just go on a 3 month climbing spree sounds really fun and I know folks doing that, I just don't want to have to re-acquire a job in the aftermath.
    - deleted 4y ago

jerf 4y ago

Keep an eye out on these people. Lots of things were possible in a 0% interest rate environment that aren't now. This could be brilliant people working an incredible job they don't need to work full time on, or they may be the individual version of a corporation surviving only because the interest rate environment is 0%. They don't even have to be directly taking out loans to do it themselves, only taking advantage of economic conditions created by cheap money. "Stocks" haven't been a great source of passive income this year, and "real estate" is showing signs of having just passed its peak. These easy jobs may not survive these things contracting. Of course, if they're walking off with cash rather than debt, they may still be among the winners of the whole 0% interest regime.

trinsic2 4y ago
I haven't worked for the corporate world since 2004. When I got back from a trip to Europe I realized I was working myself into the ground and decided to take the hit and start my own business. Now I set my own hours. I think that the time off from work during the pandemic is making others reconsider working for someone else. I laughed out loud when I read some corporate slave droning on about people don't want to work. Stop treating people like cogs in a wheel and create something that society values thats ethical. And maybe, just maybe, you will retain people who actually care about what you do.
- fallingknife 4y ago
  Well, it worked out for you, but starting your own business is usually exactly the wrong move for someone who doesn't want to work themself into the ground.
  - trinsic2 4y ago
    I guess it would depend on the venture. Do something you love to do, and you never work a day in your life. It takes time and dedication, but I didn't work myself into the ground doing it. But I did have part time jobs when I was starting out. I think its something you create for yourself that grows over time, when you work at a job, you are enriching someone else's vision. That's ok if your visions are aligned, but if you are working at a job that doesn't align with your value system, there is only so much of that you can take.
    - fallingknife 4y ago
      This can certainly be true, but the catch is when you say I love to do x so I will start a business to do x, it's not so simple. You now have to do x + sales + customer service + management, etc. And while it is possible that you love to do all of those things, in the great majority of cases, you don't, and it will be a grind. That's not to say it's not worth it, though.
      - trinsic2 4y ago
        You wont know until you try. I found that doing something you love, you will try anything to make it happen. It starts out small and its not like it requires one to be solid in every area of the business right away like the areas you mentioned. Some times people want to compete against well established markets and that is a recepie for disaster. But again, it depends on the niche you have decided on. Also it takes time and people cut you slack if you are delivering value to them that's authentic. I found this source great for starting new business: https://fronterablog.com/ https://fronterablog.com/
- jerf 4y ago
  That's actually orthogonal to my point. Plenty of people have "lifestyle businesses", but if they generate true value, it's not a mystery as to where the money is coming from. Consult for 20 hours a week, just as an example, and I'm not even slightly mystified at how you can live on that income. I'm not advocating a suit-and-tie, 40hour/week desk job as the only alternative. Were I single I'd probably work half-time myself. I'm talking more about the Amazon drop-shipping businesses where "you can earn $5K/week!!1!" where if it's really that easy the market should already have been consumed, or even the ones you just plain can't figure out where the money is coming from. There's a lot of "businesses" that work in a 0% interest environment that won't work in a 5+% environment. If you've been doing it since 2004, you are almost certainly not in such a space because you started in a non-0% interest environment. I mean, basically, it's just like how the crypto business space is completely collapsing now. They are the first big things to topple over in a non-0%-environment. Smaller analogs to that can happen too, it just won't make the news that Joe-down-the-street's business of importing bulk cheap IP-pirated stuff from China and distributing it to local parents who want cheap Disney-branded stuff went out of business because it turns out that even though he didn't take loans himself, every other company involved in his business was offering subsidized, not-truly-sustainable prices because of the cheap money environment. (If you don't know, that's a real thing, not an outrageous fake example I'm making up. I have a particular acquaintance in mind who did that as a side hustle for a while.)
  - trinsic2 4y ago
    Yea generating value is really important. I think that trying to make money with out creating some kind of value is a dead end in more ways than one.
axus 4y ago
Kind of funny that it's the well-off that are "doing the jobs Americans can't afford to do"
- entropicdrifter 4y ago
  It's been that way for most of history. Most great artists, philosophers, scientists, and politicians were either born into wealth or had wealthy patrons they met by networking with the wealthy at e.g. country clubs, concert halls, or elite universities.

mjr00 4y ago

Yeah it's almost certainly this. In Western culture, and probably others, your job is closely tied to your identity. Even if you don't feel so yourself, it greatly affects how others perceive you. After all, when you meet a new person, one of the first things you ask them is, "What do you do [for a living]?" If you're living off passive income, answering that question can be complicated. So you just make up something like "being a consultant" or "doing online sales." It's pretty similar with generational wealth. I know someone who has been working doing script reviews in Hollywood for 10 years now. It's definitely paid work, but maybe a few thousand a month; the rest of their lifestyle is financed by their parents, who run a real estate business. But it's a lot easier, socially, to say "I'm a script writer and reviewer" than to say "I don't work, my parents pay for everything."

JohnFen 4y ago
> After all, when you meet a new person, one of the first things you ask them is, "What do you do [for a living]?" Not in my part of the US. I've rarely been asked, and have never asked unless it was pertinent to an ongoing discussion.
adamsmith143 4y ago
Who are they fooling? No one buys that you can have a brand new Mercedes and live in a high rise apartment by "reviewing a few scripts" every few months.
- mjr00 4y ago
  Sure, but he has a Civic from the mid-2000s and lives in a typically-priced LA low-rise rental apartment in an okay-but-not-amazing neighborhood. Funnily enough, he's dating a girl in a very similar situation who currently has an occupation of "pet sitter." If you actually sat down and did the math, it'd be obvious. But most people don't think that hard about it, and will accept an answer of "I'm a script writer" in the context of e.g. telling a Tinder date what you do for a living.
  - ghaff 4y ago

ldjkfkdsjnv 4y ago

Nah they have almost no savings for retirement/in general. They may inherit their parents home, but thats a long ways off. But when you hang with them, you realize that when working full time you are missing out on psychological states and experiences that are taken from you by having a full time job.

mjr00 4y ago
> But when you hang with them, you realize that when working full time you are missing out on psychological states and experiences that are taken from you by having a full time job. In my experience, the "experiences" that single, underemployed people of working age (20s to 40s) have are largely watching shitloads of Netflix and YouTube. After all, even if they aren't working a fulltime job, most of their friends are. And even if they find friends who are also underemployed, finances will be tight for both of them, so what exactly can they do together? Usually just hang out at each others' places and watch Netflix and YouTube. Admittedly this could look a lot different for those with kids, though.
- scarecrowbob 4y ago
  Maybe? My kids graduated and I moved to SW CO. I have a lot of friends in their early 20s and look at them with the perspective of someone with children that age. I know a whole lot of ski bums, dirt bag climbers, rafting guides, semi-pro slack liners or whatever. Sound healers and yogis. To be clear, I'm sure there are plenty of folks watching shitloads of video, but I don't know them because of selection bias. And I know that some of them are trustifarians and others are sociopathic scammers. Personally, I like my remote coding job. I'm also underemployed but the job is easy and has gentle requirements on me. So I'm a bit removed from what these folks are doing. However, the folks I know are generally having a much better time than just sitting around watching netflix, and the comment about having experiences taken from us by having full time jobs is a real thing from my position: being able to just go on a 3 month climbing spree sounds really fun and I know folks doing that, I just don't want to have to re-acquire a job in the aftermath.
  - deleted 4y ago