5 ms·

The lack of federally funded research on this topic is astounding. It's been like this for a long time, but ignored. Even more notably has been the lack of cu

by JPKab 4y ago

The lack of federally funded research on this topic is astounding. It's been like this for a long time, but ignored. Even more notably has been the lack of curiosity from the media and academia. They simply shrug and move on, as if the root cause of this isn't something we should look into as potentially causing other problems that are even worse. Edit: The downvotes without any comment refuting this highlight the issue. This is a topic that should elicit more curiosity than it does, and we should ask ourselves why it doesn't. I worked in intel/defense for over 10 years, and part of our post Iraq WMD training was looking for signs of bias/motivated reasoning that are a sign of the group think that allowed for a war to be started based on false pretenses. One of the biggest indicators: "A lack of curiosity about a phenomenon/event/factor where it should be expected."

vinyl7 4y ago
Well I mean, given the public discourse of the past decade...it seems to me that they want the population to decline. So it makes sense that no one has in interest in investigating this.
- bhouston 4y ago
  "they want the population to decline" Who is "they"?
  - weberer 4y ago
    >the media and academia
  - jtbayly 4y ago
    Some portion of commenters on HN, for one. There are plenty of people who are so desperate about anthropogenic global warming that they're willing to forgo having children and proclaim that the disastrous decline in fertility rates in places like Korea (see recent HN thread) are actually good and necessary because we need fewer humans on this earth.
    - coldpie 4y ago
      Yo. Number 1 reason I'm not having kids is I don't like kids. Number 2 reason is I don't think it's ethical to intentionally bring a child into a world that's going to be torn to pieces by climate disasters & wars.
      - nradov 4y ago
        People throughout history continued having children through wars, disasters, and climate changes (ice age) worse than anything that our children will experience. Climate change is a problem, but a manageable one. No need to panic. https://www.basicbooks.com/titles/bjorn-lomborg/false-alarm/9781541647480/ https://www.basicbooks.com/titles/bjorn-lomborg/false-alarm/...
        coldpie 4y ago
        > The majority of scientists reacted negatively to The Skeptical Environmentalist and he was formally accused of scientific misconduct over the book; the Danish Committees on Scientific Dishonesty concluded in an evaluation of the book that "one couldn't prove that Lomborg had deliberately been scientifically dishonest, although he had broken the rules of scientific practice in that he interpreted results beyond the conclusions of the authors he cited." His positions on climate change have been challenged by experts and characterised as cherry picking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bj%C3%B8rn_Lomborg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bj%C3%B8rn_Lomborg Ehh. If we were actually on a positive trajectory with a glimmer of hope on the horizon, I might agree with you. But we're not. Things are bad and the trends are only getting worse. Many places will become uninhabitable; the residents will emigrate elsewhere; the places being migrated to will react by electing right-wing nationalists; some resource or border conflict will result in war. It's gonna be bad. I'm not going to feed more lives into that meat grinder.
        nradov 4y ago
        Wikipedia is heavily manipulated and not considered a reliable source on scientific issues. Do you have a substantive criticism of Bjørn Lomborg's positions? https://lexfridman.com/climate-change-debate/ https://lexfridman.com/climate-change-debate/ People have been confidently predicting doom for millennia, yet it keeps on not happening. Humans are pretty resilient.
  - teeray 4y ago
    Usually “they” in this context refers to “the powers that be”
  - Vt71fcAqt7 4y ago
    Climate activists, at least generally speaking.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
Its the same with obesity, which has been sharply increasing in much of the world since the 1970s, but pretty much all the conventional explanations (increased availability, excess sugar, excess carbs, excess fat, decreased physical activity, etc.) don't seem to stand up to scrutiny. Hypothesis: the cause in both cases is likely industrial contaminants considered essential to the running of modern civilization, so nobody wants to, or is encouraged not to, look too hard.
- Arete314159 4y ago
  I read an interesting study on this. It showed that obesity rates were lower in places like Colorado, and theorized that the reason was that they were at the headwaters of their water source, so there was less opportunity for contaminants to enter their water.
  - francisofascii 4y ago
    That is interesting, but probably the reason is the highly active/outdoor culture of Colorado leads to lower obesity rates and people who are less obese move to Colorado.
    - JPKab 4y ago
      Nope. It's altitude. I live in Colorado. The science on this altitude effect has been pretty thoroughly conducted, with potential correlating factors accounted for in multivariate regression models. Denver and its suburbs are FILLED with people who are as unhealthy and inactive as the rest of the country. Even in these places, in the poorest neighborhoods, they are less obese. I have an identical twin brother who lives in Portland, and since I've moved here I've stayed about 10-15 lbs lighter than him. It's a single, anecdotal data point, and completely unscientific, but he swears he eats healthier than me lol.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
      In the article series I think parent is referencing[0] they talk about Colorado along with a bunch of other things people come up with based on "common sense". Notably higher altitude alone seems highly correlated with lower obesity and diabetes rates regardless of physical activity. Again, this points to environmental factors. [0] https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/07/a-chemical-hunger-part-i-mysteries/ https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/07/a-chemical-hunger-p...
patall 4y ago
How do you determine that? As far as I have heard from people working in fertilization clinics, they can help pretty much all couples that have problems with conceiving due to male fertility issues. You need to go there in the first place, but once you request help, you get it.
- JPKab 4y ago
  So that's your take? "This thing that humans have done for eons without medical assistance now requires it and that's totally fine. Nothing to see here." Really?
  - KptMarchewa 4y ago
    People slept on trees and wore nothing too. You can extrapolate this on pretty much all human existence.
  - patall 4y ago
    No, you do not understand. What I am saying is that we understand very well what is happening. 'The science is there'. What does not exist is the policy (to prevent it) and we only react when absolutely necessary. Like with poverty, to give another example.

by JPKab 4y ago

vinyl7 4y ago

Well I mean, given the public discourse of the past decade...it seems to me that they want the population to decline. So it makes sense that no one has in interest in investigating this.

bhouston 4y ago
"they want the population to decline" Who is "they"?
- weberer 4y ago
  >the media and academia
- jtbayly 4y ago
  Some portion of commenters on HN, for one. There are plenty of people who are so desperate about anthropogenic global warming that they're willing to forgo having children and proclaim that the disastrous decline in fertility rates in places like Korea (see recent HN thread) are actually good and necessary because we need fewer humans on this earth.
  - coldpie 4y ago
    Yo. Number 1 reason I'm not having kids is I don't like kids. Number 2 reason is I don't think it's ethical to intentionally bring a child into a world that's going to be torn to pieces by climate disasters & wars.
    - nradov 4y ago
      People throughout history continued having children through wars, disasters, and climate changes (ice age) worse than anything that our children will experience. Climate change is a problem, but a manageable one. No need to panic. https://www.basicbooks.com/titles/bjorn-lomborg/false-alarm/9781541647480/ https://www.basicbooks.com/titles/bjorn-lomborg/false-alarm/...
      - coldpie 4y ago
        > The majority of scientists reacted negatively to The Skeptical Environmentalist and he was formally accused of scientific misconduct over the book; the Danish Committees on Scientific Dishonesty concluded in an evaluation of the book that "one couldn't prove that Lomborg had deliberately been scientifically dishonest, although he had broken the rules of scientific practice in that he interpreted results beyond the conclusions of the authors he cited." His positions on climate change have been challenged by experts and characterised as cherry picking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bj%C3%B8rn_Lomborg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bj%C3%B8rn_Lomborg Ehh. If we were actually on a positive trajectory with a glimmer of hope on the horizon, I might agree with you. But we're not. Things are bad and the trends are only getting worse. Many places will become uninhabitable; the residents will emigrate elsewhere; the places being migrated to will react by electing right-wing nationalists; some resource or border conflict will result in war. It's gonna be bad. I'm not going to feed more lives into that meat grinder.
        nradov 4y ago
        Wikipedia is heavily manipulated and not considered a reliable source on scientific issues. Do you have a substantive criticism of Bjørn Lomborg's positions? https://lexfridman.com/climate-change-debate/ https://lexfridman.com/climate-change-debate/ People have been confidently predicting doom for millennia, yet it keeps on not happening. Humans are pretty resilient.
- teeray 4y ago
  Usually “they” in this context refers to “the powers that be”
- Vt71fcAqt7 4y ago
  Climate activists, at least generally speaking.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago

Its the same with obesity, which has been sharply increasing in much of the world since the 1970s, but pretty much all the conventional explanations (increased availability, excess sugar, excess carbs, excess fat, decreased physical activity, etc.) don't seem to stand up to scrutiny. Hypothesis: the cause in both cases is likely industrial contaminants considered essential to the running of modern civilization, so nobody wants to, or is encouraged not to, look too hard.

Arete314159 4y ago
I read an interesting study on this. It showed that obesity rates were lower in places like Colorado, and theorized that the reason was that they were at the headwaters of their water source, so there was less opportunity for contaminants to enter their water.
- francisofascii 4y ago
  That is interesting, but probably the reason is the highly active/outdoor culture of Colorado leads to lower obesity rates and people who are less obese move to Colorado.
  - JPKab 4y ago
    Nope. It's altitude. I live in Colorado. The science on this altitude effect has been pretty thoroughly conducted, with potential correlating factors accounted for in multivariate regression models. Denver and its suburbs are FILLED with people who are as unhealthy and inactive as the rest of the country. Even in these places, in the poorest neighborhoods, they are less obese. I have an identical twin brother who lives in Portland, and since I've moved here I've stayed about 10-15 lbs lighter than him. It's a single, anecdotal data point, and completely unscientific, but he swears he eats healthier than me lol.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
    In the article series I think parent is referencing[0] they talk about Colorado along with a bunch of other things people come up with based on "common sense". Notably higher altitude alone seems highly correlated with lower obesity and diabetes rates regardless of physical activity. Again, this points to environmental factors. [0] https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/07/a-chemical-hunger-part-i-mysteries/ https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/07/a-chemical-hunger-p...

patall 4y ago

How do you determine that? As far as I have heard from people working in fertilization clinics, they can help pretty much all couples that have problems with conceiving due to male fertility issues. You need to go there in the first place, but once you request help, you get it.

JPKab 4y ago
So that's your take? "This thing that humans have done for eons without medical assistance now requires it and that's totally fine. Nothing to see here." Really?
- KptMarchewa 4y ago
  People slept on trees and wore nothing too. You can extrapolate this on pretty much all human existence.
- patall 4y ago
  No, you do not understand. What I am saying is that we understand very well what is happening. 'The science is there'. What does not exist is the policy (to prevent it) and we only react when absolutely necessary. Like with poverty, to give another example.