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> Would giving people the ability to opt out of Apple's ultra-managed experience and take more control over their device harm your ability to continue to enjoy

> Would giving people the ability to opt out of Apple's ultra-managed experience and take more control over their device harm your ability to continue to enjoy those benefits? Yes, it would, because <insert your giant corporation here> will require you to opt-out of Apple's ultra-managed experience to use their app.

michaelmrose 4y ago
Then don't install it or only install it if its worth the trade off. The only real reason for 99.9% of apps to want to do that is to prevent Apple from taking a huge portion of the revenue. Decrease the tax and this problem virtually goes away.
- bnj 4y ago
  Not OP, but the thing which bothers me about this is that it’s not a real choice from an end user perspective. So many employers quasi-require people to use their phones as part of their work. I can just see something like Microsoft teams becoming a wedge that pushes people to disable lockdowns from apple that, in their personal lives, they’d rather keep. I do think that could be solvable. Something like different personas on the phone could be the next step for the new “focus” features on the iPhone— maybe if you could disable App Store lockdowns but only for isolated profiles on your phone?
  - laserlight 4y ago
    > I can just see something like Microsoft teams becoming a wedge that pushes people to disable lockdowns from apple that, in their personal lives, they’d rather keep. Exactly. Not just employers, but also Facebook, TikTok, and whatever new and worse invasive tech that is enabled by the lack of Apple's restrictions. > I do think that could be solvable. I agree. And it should be solved. But, those who are asking for less restrictions won't be happy, because what they are looking for is better tracking tools.
  - michaelmrose 4y ago
    Motorola makes a decent android phone for $170. Buy for work and only use for work.
- laserlight 4y ago
  > Decrease the tax and this problem virtually goes away. Why are these companies not happy with the current commissions structure? What guarantee is there that they'll be happy with a new one? Corporations are greedy. They will ask more of whatever their bottom line needs, including users' attention, privacy, etc. > Then don't install it or only install it if its worth the trade off. And get excluded from online circles that everyone in the world uses? Or, find a different job, because my employer wants to install their surveillance app outside Apple's sandbox? I prefer not having to do the trade off at all.
ajsnigrutin 4y ago
> Yes, it would, because <insert your giant corporation here> will require you to opt-out of Apple's ultra-managed experience to use their app. So, which "<insert your giant corporation here>" is making you do this on android, where you can actually sideload apps?
- laserlight 4y ago
  I don't know. What's your point?
  - matkoniecz 4y ago
    that it does not happen on Android, as far as I know, and likely it would not be a big problem on iPhone
    - bzzzt 4y ago
      Maybe because Android just allows the privacy invading stuff iOS tries to limit?
- dublinben 4y ago
  Fortnite was removed from the Google Play store in 2020 for violating the in-app purchase policies, so Epic publishes it in their own sideloaded app store.[0] [0] https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/fortnite-removed-from-google-play-store/ https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/fortnite-removed-from-g...
  - fleshdaddy 4y ago
    Is this really such a bad thing? Following technical walk throughs are the sort of thing that get people interested in the kind of education that is more likely to protect them and even make them someone who “knows what they’re doing.” Most of the people I know who got interested in tech didn’t do so from some Apple approved stem app, it was from this sort of independent exploration to get something they want. These arguments start to feel like prohibition over education, and in a lot of ways just plain technocratic.

michaelmrose 4y ago

Then don't install it or only install it if its worth the trade off. The only real reason for 99.9% of apps to want to do that is to prevent Apple from taking a huge portion of the revenue. Decrease the tax and this problem virtually goes away.

bnj 4y ago
Not OP, but the thing which bothers me about this is that it’s not a real choice from an end user perspective. So many employers quasi-require people to use their phones as part of their work. I can just see something like Microsoft teams becoming a wedge that pushes people to disable lockdowns from apple that, in their personal lives, they’d rather keep. I do think that could be solvable. Something like different personas on the phone could be the next step for the new “focus” features on the iPhone— maybe if you could disable App Store lockdowns but only for isolated profiles on your phone?
- laserlight 4y ago
  > I can just see something like Microsoft teams becoming a wedge that pushes people to disable lockdowns from apple that, in their personal lives, they’d rather keep. Exactly. Not just employers, but also Facebook, TikTok, and whatever new and worse invasive tech that is enabled by the lack of Apple's restrictions. > I do think that could be solvable. I agree. And it should be solved. But, those who are asking for less restrictions won't be happy, because what they are looking for is better tracking tools.
- michaelmrose 4y ago
  Motorola makes a decent android phone for $170. Buy for work and only use for work.
laserlight 4y ago
> Decrease the tax and this problem virtually goes away. Why are these companies not happy with the current commissions structure? What guarantee is there that they'll be happy with a new one? Corporations are greedy. They will ask more of whatever their bottom line needs, including users' attention, privacy, etc. > Then don't install it or only install it if its worth the trade off. And get excluded from online circles that everyone in the world uses? Or, find a different job, because my employer wants to install their surveillance app outside Apple's sandbox? I prefer not having to do the trade off at all.

ajsnigrutin 4y ago

> Yes, it would, because <insert your giant corporation here> will require you to opt-out of Apple's ultra-managed experience to use their app. So, which "<insert your giant corporation here>" is making you do this on android, where you can actually sideload apps?

laserlight 4y ago
I don't know. What's your point?
- matkoniecz 4y ago
  that it does not happen on Android, as far as I know, and likely it would not be a big problem on iPhone
  - bzzzt 4y ago
    Maybe because Android just allows the privacy invading stuff iOS tries to limit?
dublinben 4y ago
Fortnite was removed from the Google Play store in 2020 for violating the in-app purchase policies, so Epic publishes it in their own sideloaded app store.[0] [0] https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/fortnite-removed-from-google-play-store/ https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/fortnite-removed-from-g...
- fleshdaddy 4y ago
  Is this really such a bad thing? Following technical walk throughs are the sort of thing that get people interested in the kind of education that is more likely to protect them and even make them someone who “knows what they’re doing.” Most of the people I know who got interested in tech didn’t do so from some Apple approved stem app, it was from this sort of independent exploration to get something they want. These arguments start to feel like prohibition over education, and in a lot of ways just plain technocratic.