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Even without changing processes, hundreds of years of time could be saved by reducing the frequency we have to interact with government at all For example, alm

Even without changing processes, hundreds of years of time could be saved by reducing the frequency we have to interact with government at all For example, almost 20 American states require license renewal every 4 years or more frequently: https://ballotpedia.org/Driver%27s_license_costs_by_state,_2018 https://ballotpedia.org/Driver%27s_license_costs_by_state,_2... When I renew, there's no test (not even vision), and they don't even retake my picture or let me update my height. They just print the same ID with new dates --- Obviously, Americans filing tax information the government already knows every year is another canonical example

notch656a 4y ago
Arizona driver license don't expire until you are 65. The linked website is innaccurate.
- giantg2 4y ago
  They do if they're REAL ID. By law they can only be valid up to 8 years.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
Arrath 4y ago
Renewing online sure takes a lot of the burden out of the regular renewals. Of course, I'm now 33 and still using a picture of 21yo me on my license which gets me second glances from bar tenders, TSA, etc. But if it keeps me from having to go in to the DMV...
- dottedmag 4y ago
  I think the point was not to renew online, but renew less often.
  - giantg2 4y ago
    REAL ID requires renewal every 8 years or less.
  - Arrath 4y ago
    It was indeed, but in absence of 20-year licenses or the like, I'll happily take the reduced friction of easier online renewals.
- giantg2 4y ago
  Will they even allow that for REAL ID now?
  - InitialLastName 4y ago
    Yes, I renewed my REAL ID earlier this year entirely online. It's possible that it would have been more complicated if I had changed my address or needed to change any other information.
    - giantg2 4y ago
      Seems odd they don't want an up to date photo.
      - kristianheljas 4y ago
        They do, you need to submit at-most 6 month old photo while renewing. Or go to the office to take one. Either way, you also still need to go get the document from the office as it is only handed over by person (but you can pre-book a time slot!). Passport is a bit more complicated, since it requires fingerprints as well.
        giantg2 4y ago
        Well then it's not "entirely online" like the other poster says.
        InitialLastName 4y ago
        I don't know what to tell you, I renewed my 2-year-old REAL ID with no new photo in NJ remotely, no appointment or updated photo necessary. I did have to go to an appointment to convert my previous ID into a REAL ID, so maybe that's what you mean.
        kristianheljas 4y ago
        Oof, now that you mentioned NJ I took a second look of the context .. you were talking about US. I mistakenly thought your comment was about Estonia..
PartiallyTyped 4y ago
That's mostly an american problem, not a "government bad" problem.
- boplicity 4y ago
  It's not even necessarily an American problem; when I lived in Washington State, the last time I got a renewal was expedient and surprisingly efficient. I was impressed with how well run the place was.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- dottedmag 4y ago
  I've got a driver's license in another country, and it's still up for renewal every 5 years.
  - rospaya 4y ago
    Most countries treat driver's licences seriously, not like the US. It takes months of classes and driving hours, exams and tests to get one where I live. Renewals mean getting your eyes checked, no photos etc.
    - xboxnolifes 4y ago
      Sounds exactly the same as the US. The question is: how difficult are the exams and tests? In the US, the written exams are 80% irrelevant information that you pass by wrought memorization right before, and the driving test is trivial (parallel park, left turn, k-turn, right turn back to start). At least that was my experience in New Jersey.
- imperfect_blue 4y ago
  It's almost a tautology. All things being equal, the less time spent on bureaucratic processes, the better. Its just so that governments (and academic institutions, nonprofits, healthcare, etc.) are the natural environments for bureaucratic bloat.
ryukafalz 4y ago
I'd go the other way; we really should require retesting for driver's license renewals. New Jersey for example just enacted a "safe passing" law earlier this year in an attempt to make bicyclists and pedestrians safer. But existing drivers will never have to demonstrate that they know this because we never retest people after they get their license once.
- Karrot_Kream 4y ago
  It's usually an equity issue, or championed as such by equity groups. America is so car dependent that for folks at the margins failing a driving test is the equivalent of losing your job. That's why DL renewals almost rarely require any re-testing and never require demonstrating driving skills.
  - whimsicalism 4y ago
    Hitting pedestrians also poses issues for folks at the margins, yet we don't seek to educate those people on how to avoid this potentially life destroying situation.
    - notch656a 4y ago
      I think you would be hard pressed to find someone currently living with a license that got it at a time where it was OK to will-nilly hit pedestrians.
      - CJefferson 4y ago
        I bet I can find plenty of people who have a licence, but if retested now would fail -- which suggests they now can't be trusted not to willy-nilly hit pedestrians.
    - Karrot_Kream 4y ago
      I agree but a lot of equity groups are not willing to advocate for pedestrian lives. The perception a lot of Americans have is that folks are either walking because they have literally no option and are thus probably not really working-class folks or they're out for recreation. There's a growing number of organizations advocating for pedestrian and cyclist safety but they have a lot less funding and fewer connections that equity groups which protect drivers. If you have the opportunity in your area, donate to such a group or help make one yourself.
Cthulhu_ 4y ago
It's a decade over here, same for most forms of ID; there was a period where it was reduced to 5 years, but that was due to developing digital technologies, that is, chips on board the documents - they foresaw that they might be outdated or insecure in a few years, and they were right.
JTbane 4y ago
>Obviously, Americans filing tax information the government already knows every year is another canonical example Yeah it's pretty ridiculous, especially when you hold things like mutual funds. You have to figure out how much to pay every quarter. Why can't the gov't bill me with the info they already have?

notch656a 4y ago

Arizona driver license don't expire until you are 65. The linked website is innaccurate.

giantg2 4y ago
They do if they're REAL ID. By law they can only be valid up to 8 years.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

Arrath 4y ago

Renewing online sure takes a lot of the burden out of the regular renewals. Of course, I'm now 33 and still using a picture of 21yo me on my license which gets me second glances from bar tenders, TSA, etc. But if it keeps me from having to go in to the DMV...

dottedmag 4y ago
I think the point was not to renew online, but renew less often.
- giantg2 4y ago
  REAL ID requires renewal every 8 years or less.
- Arrath 4y ago
  It was indeed, but in absence of 20-year licenses or the like, I'll happily take the reduced friction of easier online renewals.
giantg2 4y ago
Will they even allow that for REAL ID now?
- InitialLastName 4y ago
  Yes, I renewed my REAL ID earlier this year entirely online. It's possible that it would have been more complicated if I had changed my address or needed to change any other information.
  - giantg2 4y ago
    Seems odd they don't want an up to date photo.
    - kristianheljas 4y ago
      They do, you need to submit at-most 6 month old photo while renewing. Or go to the office to take one. Either way, you also still need to go get the document from the office as it is only handed over by person (but you can pre-book a time slot!). Passport is a bit more complicated, since it requires fingerprints as well.
      - giantg2 4y ago
        Well then it's not "entirely online" like the other poster says.
      - InitialLastName 4y ago
        I don't know what to tell you, I renewed my 2-year-old REAL ID with no new photo in NJ remotely, no appointment or updated photo necessary. I did have to go to an appointment to convert my previous ID into a REAL ID, so maybe that's what you mean.
        kristianheljas 4y ago
        Oof, now that you mentioned NJ I took a second look of the context .. you were talking about US. I mistakenly thought your comment was about Estonia..

PartiallyTyped 4y ago

That's mostly an american problem, not a "government bad" problem.

boplicity 4y ago
It's not even necessarily an American problem; when I lived in Washington State, the last time I got a renewal was expedient and surprisingly efficient. I was impressed with how well run the place was.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
dottedmag 4y ago
I've got a driver's license in another country, and it's still up for renewal every 5 years.
- rospaya 4y ago
  Most countries treat driver's licences seriously, not like the US. It takes months of classes and driving hours, exams and tests to get one where I live. Renewals mean getting your eyes checked, no photos etc.
  - xboxnolifes 4y ago
    Sounds exactly the same as the US. The question is: how difficult are the exams and tests? In the US, the written exams are 80% irrelevant information that you pass by wrought memorization right before, and the driving test is trivial (parallel park, left turn, k-turn, right turn back to start). At least that was my experience in New Jersey.
imperfect_blue 4y ago
It's almost a tautology. All things being equal, the less time spent on bureaucratic processes, the better. Its just so that governments (and academic institutions, nonprofits, healthcare, etc.) are the natural environments for bureaucratic bloat.

ryukafalz 4y ago

I'd go the other way; we really should require retesting for driver's license renewals. New Jersey for example just enacted a "safe passing" law earlier this year in an attempt to make bicyclists and pedestrians safer. But existing drivers will never have to demonstrate that they know this because we never retest people after they get their license once.

Karrot_Kream 4y ago
It's usually an equity issue, or championed as such by equity groups. America is so car dependent that for folks at the margins failing a driving test is the equivalent of losing your job. That's why DL renewals almost rarely require any re-testing and never require demonstrating driving skills.
- whimsicalism 4y ago
  Hitting pedestrians also poses issues for folks at the margins, yet we don't seek to educate those people on how to avoid this potentially life destroying situation.
  - notch656a 4y ago
    I think you would be hard pressed to find someone currently living with a license that got it at a time where it was OK to will-nilly hit pedestrians.
    - CJefferson 4y ago
      I bet I can find plenty of people who have a licence, but if retested now would fail -- which suggests they now can't be trusted not to willy-nilly hit pedestrians.
  - Karrot_Kream 4y ago
    I agree but a lot of equity groups are not willing to advocate for pedestrian lives. The perception a lot of Americans have is that folks are either walking because they have literally no option and are thus probably not really working-class folks or they're out for recreation. There's a growing number of organizations advocating for pedestrian and cyclist safety but they have a lot less funding and fewer connections that equity groups which protect drivers. If you have the opportunity in your area, donate to such a group or help make one yourself.

Cthulhu_ 4y ago

It's a decade over here, same for most forms of ID; there was a period where it was reduced to 5 years, but that was due to developing digital technologies, that is, chips on board the documents - they foresaw that they might be outdated or insecure in a few years, and they were right.

JTbane 4y ago

>Obviously, Americans filing tax information the government already knows every year is another canonical example Yeah it's pretty ridiculous, especially when you hold things like mutual funds. You have to figure out how much to pay every quarter. Why can't the gov't bill me with the info they already have?