27 ms·
Another way to say that: USA is really mean [to immigrants].
by welder 4y ago
Another way to say that:
USA is really mean [to immigrants].
- FredPret 4y agoMean? No. Confusing and illogical? Yes
- lzooz 4y agoMean why? Staying in a foreign country is a privilege not a right.
- PartiallyTyped 4y agoI mean, it's all imaginary lines carved eons ago by colonialists with blood for ink, but who cares.
- eddsh1994 4y agoEven Chimpanzee tribes have land borders that they protect. When do 'imaginary lines' just become 'lines', when they've been created and destroyed since pre-history? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombe_Chimpanzee_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombe_Chimpanzee_War
- matai_kolila 4y agoHm, “chimps do it” is not the stellar argument you think it is. Chimps throw feces, should we start doing that too?
- eddsh1994 4y agoMy point is while 'imaginary lines' seem theoretically interesting to point out when we discuss free movement, it's far too ingrained into animals to really change. Maybe in the distant future we will have planets as borders instead of country lines, but the lines will be there! Also any reason to point out Chimpanzees have wars including patrolling land borders and recon missions :)
- matai_kolila 4y agoThe main thing we have over animals is our ability to reason, so if anyone can overcome petty border disputes, it’s us. “Animals do it” is not a compelling argument for humans to participate in… well, anything. We know better!
- PartiallyTyped 4y agoOne would expect that a species that looks at the stars and longs to explore would have found ways to reconcile coexistance of tribes. Alas, we are but hairless Chimpanzees with speech and clothes.
- welder 4y agoLooks like they have 60 days to find a new job... I thought the grace period was shorter when I commented, but still that's not much time compared to other countries I've lived in. I'm from the USA. I think the way the US treats skilled workers is stupid. We want smart skilled people to immigrate, not make it hard on them. Can you imagine living with the threat of being kicked out lingering over you? I would never feel secure or set down real roots in a country that might kick me out in 60 days. Edit: Depending on the type of visa you're kicked out of the country much sooner than 60 days.
- midoridensha 4y ago>I think the way the US treats skilled workers is stupid. It is stupid, but it's apparently how Americans want it. >We want smart skilled people to immigrate, not make it hard on them. No, you want that. American voters don't seem to agree with you, or at least, not enough of them to make a change. Meanwhile, in other countries, smart skilled people have a relatively easy time immigrating. I'm in Japan and it couldn't get much easier for skilled professionals than this. >Can you imagine living with the threat of being kicked out lingering over you? I would never feel secure or set down real roots in a country that might kick me out in 60 days. Yeah, me neither. I'm not sure why people want to torture themselves by going to such a country. There are other places looking for skilled professionals, and that make the immigration process pretty painless and easy. People need to get over this mythical idea of the US being some great welcoming haven for immigrants; it really isn't these days.
- woooooo 4y agoYou may be assuming more connection between voters and policy than actually happens in practice.
- midoridensha 4y agoDid you totally miss the Trump election? "Build the wall!"? The American voters (well, almost half of them) spoke loud and clear about their sentiments on immigration. If tech companies were in charge, the borders would be mostly open, especially (or perhaps only) for skilled professionals. Obviously, this isn't the case, so the corporate lobbyists are not the ones responsible for America's anti-skilled-immigrant policy, the American voters are. It doesn't get "fixed" because it's politically unpopular to do so.
- schon 4y agoIf you spent a lot of time and money moving to a new country for work then you don't want to do all that again. In the USA, if you aren't a citizen and you have a working TN visa, then you literally have DAYS to find a new job or else you get deported. Thats why its important, because the current laws aren't realistic with finding a new job. They don't take into account the multiple interviews, the slow responses and callbacks. The entire process takes a long time.
- matai_kolila 4y agoWhat entities a person born in a nation to is resources more so then someone born outside of that nation? You can’t control where you’re born, why would that be then used to determine… well, anything about you?
- lzooz 4y agoBirthright. Parents, grandparents, etc. fought for their wealth, freedoms, rights, etc.
- matai_kolila 4y agoNone of which you did anything to earn.
- lzooz 4y agoMy ancestors earned it and they chose to give it to their descendance.
- matai_kolila 4y agoFirstly no, they didn’t earn anything on their own, and secondly if they did make that choice it was selfish and not theirs to give away in the first place so their “ownership” here is a mistake on their part to believe they had. You can’t own progress, you can’t own a society, and you definitely can’t own the concept of freedom (can’t believe that isn’t clear).
- lzooz 4y agoYes they earned their society because they worked on it, no it wasn't a selfish choice because the society was and is theirs, and yes you can own progress, a society, and freedom. Which is why half the world is monkeys flinging feces and some would kill to enter the first world.
- 4y ago
- KptMarchewa 4y agoIf you give someone that privilege then treat them as human. US prefers to hang that privilege upon people and treat them capriciously. Similar situation is in US work ethic, where CEO is something akin to a feudal lord.
- lzooz 4y agoSo if a guest overstays their welcome and you kick them out of the house you are treating them as an animal?
- blep_ 4y agoYou're confusing vacations with immigration. If that "guest" has come to your house on the premise that they're going to live with you, and you kick them out, yes, that is bad. We even have laws about this, that's why there's a whole eviction process and it applies to people living with you as much as to normal tenants.
- ipaddr 4y agoThey come to work at a specific job when that relationship ends so does your access. It's like giving a home plumber access to your yard and then you move but he still hang around your yard.
- blep_ 4y agoPlumbers do not come to your house with the intention of permanently living there.
- ipaddr 4y agoNeither are temporary workers on expiring VISAs. They may want that but that's not part of the agreement.
- throwaway2729 4y ago
- renewiltord 4y agoSeems a bit non-sequitur. Whether you're mean or not is not a factor of whether you are giving people their rights. Like, if I called you a doofus on this website every time I saw you, I'm probably being mean but not denying you your rights or anything.
- imgabe 4y agoWhat other countries would you say are friendlier and easier to immigrate to than the US? In most places it is not an option unless you have a job offer or significant wealth.
- eddsh1994 4y agoHave you tried to immigrate to the US? Have you tried to immigrate to any country in the EU or the UK? The latter is far easier than the former (I'm English living in the US with a Finnish wife, so have had to look at all these systems since Brexit).
- dilyevsky 4y agoI have. The UK is as hard or possibly even harder now (since the brexit) as US. The rest of EU is not as hard but you need to weigh by pay difference and how many people actually want to immigrate, then it's not even close.
- eddsh1994 4y agoEssentially the UK requires you to speak English and have a job offer over 26k GBP in a skilled role where 'Skilled' expects the skills needed are that of an 18 year old school leaver, or less skill requirements if it's a role with a shortage, or less money if you have an advanced degree. That's pretty open IMO.
- Spivak 4y agoDang, the US doesn't even require you speak English.
- gray_-_wolf 4y agoIsn't this probably caused by US actually not having an official language?
- eddsh1994 4y agoI'm an immigrant in the US, I don't think they're mean (albeit very bureaucratic)! I can just imagine the relief these guys have over Xmas though.
- digianarchist 4y agoThe system is easier to qualify for than other countries, provided you can find a sponsoring employer, but it is also slow and requires that you engage an attorney because it's archaic.
- smnrchrds 4y agoTo add some context, in Canada, if you lose your job as a work permit holder, you can stay until the expiry date of the permit. In Germany, you can get a six-month jobseeker residence permit in this case. In France, you can stay until the expiry date of your work permit, then renew it for one extra year, and then if you still have remaining entitlement to unemployment benefits, extend it until the end of the benefits. Not every country is like the US, where you have 60 days to uproot and leave.
- totetsu 4y agoJapan’s unemployment insurance won’t pay out after the end of a work permit even if there is a remaining entitlement、because your not ‘available to work’, even if you’re on a specific job seeking permit extension.
- miscaccount 4y agoIn USA, if you are on h1b you cannot claim unemployment since your work visa is restricted. So even though h1b folks pay into the system they cannot claim unemployment.
- lmm 4y agoTrue, but that's up to 5 years (and in the worst case at least 90 days, if you submit for renewal as early as possible) rather than 60 days.
- acchow 4y ago60 days? On a TN, you get until the end of the day
- ghshephard 4y agoI think the wording is "As soon as administratively possible" - But I've also read that to mean within 24 hours of your termination you need to have left the United States, and have always adhered to that rule.
- alibero 4y ago
- jimbob45 4y agoNo other country lets in more immigrants per year. The US has more immigrants than any other country by a wide margin. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/immigration-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/immigrati... https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/mapped-immigration-by-country-as-a-percentage-of-the-population/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/mapped-immigration-by-co...
- vkou 4y agoNot per capita, which is the only sensible metric to use. Germany, Canada, Australia are all higher on that.
- taude 4y agoIn this case, the net metric is the sensible one to use.
- jeffy90 4y agowhy is the net metric more sensible in this case?
- pb7 4y agoNot the GP but a larger total number means you have a higher likelihood of being one of the people to be granted entry. A country of 1000 people may accept 10 people and that be a very large per-capita rate, but odds of you being one of 10 people accepted out of billions of possible immigrants is very low. It's not like it's one visa application for all countries in the world.
- toephu2 4y agoPer capita it seems Saudi Arabia is #1? (for any country with a population higher than 10 million) Surprised to see it higher than Canada, U.S., and any major country in Europe...
- 4y ago
- rmk 4y agoIt's a slap in the face of legal immigrants. This, along with quotas that restrict permanent residency based on place of birth, are inhumane policies that signal to legal immigrants that they are not wanted here. Apparently, the fact that millions of hispanic illegal immigrants already break the putative purpose of the quota: that no large segment of the population has close ties to any given country, so that they can not disproportionately influence foreign policy toward that country (e.g., Donetsk and Luhansk) is of no consequence: the quota remains in place. Meanwhile, Canada is planning to bring in 500,000 immigrants a year to replace boomers leaving the workforce. A phenomenal opportunity to bring in highly-paid citizens who will integrate very easily into the country and provide economic benefits from day one to the host country.
- rhapsodic 4y ago[dead]
- whydoyoucare 4y agoYet another way to say that: USA is very friendly to immigrants - it is not a homogeneous society, and there is mutual respect of all religions, faiths, and languages. On contrast, I find many populations in EU to be actively hostile towards immigrants (in Germany one will have a difficult time not knowing German, for example). As a result, it is a demand and supply problem. Compare how many are wanting to immigrate to, say, Germany, Austria or Switzerland, as opposed to US.
- qwytw 4y agoGermany, Austria or Switzerland all have higher net immigration per capita than US. According to 2015-2020 average (estimate) more than twice as many people moved to Germany than to US (relative to population of course).
- whydoyoucare 4y agoInteresting statistic. Though all three seem so homogeneous, and hence a bit hostile ("integrate into our culture, else..."). Again, I am not saying they are, just that they seem so. Stark difference to the US, with its melting-pot cities... :-)
- int_19h 4y agoDoes this include temporary workers moving around under EU rules?
- whydoyoucare 4y agoA better metric here would be the number of people wanting to immigrate and are in queue. I believe US will come out uncontested winner here! :-D
- Spivak 4y agoThe US is very friendly to the immigrated but is very unfriendly to the immigrating.
- welder 4y ago> in Germany one will have a difficult time not knowing German, for example No, that couldn't be farther from the truth. I lived in Germany, and have friends there who still don't know German after 10+ years and never have any problems. If you work in a non-office industry you need German, but in office/tech workplaces nobody knows German.
- black_13 4y ago
- mkasu 4y agoI'm not in the US, but as an immigrant myself I can say it's incredibly stressful to be on a working visa during job changes and during a period of unstable economy. Especially if you have family. To be rational, I work in academia and I shouldn't need to worry too much about job safety and/or visa applications, but I still semi-regularly woke up at night from nightmares of my visa expiring, not being renewed, suddenly being deported, or similar stuff. I got my permanent residence earlier this year and all of it stopped. It gives you some sense of stability/security. It also makes one feel a bit more accepted in society by not needing to leave it if a work agreement (for whatever reason) ends.
- lcedp 4y agoI can relate. I'm qualified to apply for a permanent residence in 4 months. The worst thing is that if I get laid off, the 5-year clock resets, and it would waste almost 5 years. Technically, it takes 45+ days to lay off someone. However, the application requires a letter from the employer to confirm I'm still needed at a job, which means the lay-off just a few days before the application could invalidate the application and has a potential to reset the clock.
- dang 4y agoWe detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33804256 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33804256.