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It's hard to know for sure if this is real, but I wouldn't be surprised. If this is happening, I hope Apple says no to the CCP when they inevitably ask Apple t

by jmoak3 4y ago

It's hard to know for sure if this is real, but I wouldn't be surprised. If this is happening, I hope Apple says no to the CCP when they inevitably ask Apple to do the same. Could Apple use that new CSAM-hash-comparison feature to accomplish something similar? EDIT: https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/CSAM_Detection_Technical_Summary.pdf https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/CSAM_Detection_Techni... Nevermind - it looks to me like this mechanism is just for letting Apple know if they should pop open an encrypted image stored on their Cloud. In the case of China, they should already be able to do that with impunity since they control the regional iCloud and keys EDIT 2: I'd also not be surprised if this was false however - I don't own a Huawei phone and I'm not located in China, so I can't verify this at all.

kube-system 4y ago
Apple doesn't own or operate iCloud in China. They have no say in the matter.
- jmoak3 4y ago
  Maybe I'm confused but the new CSAM-hash-comparison thing runs on-device, right? Or no EDIT: Yeah looks to be on-device (page 4): https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/CSAM_Detection_Technical_Summary.pdf https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/CSAM_Detection_Techni...
  - kube-system 4y ago
    That is irrelevant when it comes to iCloud China. iCloud in China is owned and operated by the government of Guizhou. They own the building, the servers, and the private keys.
    - jmoak3 4y ago
      I'm aware of iCloud in China. If a user chooses not to use cloud, could this mechanism still allow protestors sharing videos to be identified? EDIT: Or is this mechanism only for giving Apple the green light to pop open images already stored on the cloud (in which case you're right, the whole conversation is irrelevant) EDIT2: looks like this is just for giving apple the green light to open up uploaded images - which is irrelevant in China because they can already do that
      - kube-system 4y ago
        I would presume on-device software updates come from the same mechanism.
      - vineyardmike 4y ago
        The CSAM hash utility was to pop open images in an encrypted iCloud, or witch china (nor the US) have today. There’s no reason that the tech couldn’t be used on non-iCloud images in china. But by that logic, they could just force-ably upload images in china and forget the whole hashing nonsense.
solarkraft 4y ago
> Could Apple use that new CSAM-hash-comparison feature to accomplish something similar? Only if the video is previously known, as far as I'm aware.
bogantech 4y ago
> If this is happening, I hope Apple says no to the CCP when they inevitably ask Apple to do the same Apple gladly does whatever the CCP asks of them
heavyset_go 4y ago
The same Apple that censors the Taiwan flag emoji[1]? Apple will do whatever the CCP tells them to do because they are not willing to lose a market of a billion+ potential customers. Companies have no problem being complicit in enabling authoritarianism as long as it's profitable. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/7/20903613/apple-hiding-taiwan-flag-emoji-hong-kong-macau-china https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/7/20903613/apple-hiding-tai...
- atlasunshrugged 4y ago
  Not just losing the market but losing access to their network of fabricators and suppliers that make the iphone possible at Apple's healthy (to say the least) margins
- 323 4y ago
  To be fair, not even the US govt recognizes the Taiwan flag. One could say that Apple it's following US guidance on this. > the White House deleted a social media post on COVID-19 vaccine donations that included Taiwan's flag. A spokesman for the White House National Security Council called the use of the flag "an honest mistake" by the team handling graphics and social media that should not be viewed as a shift in U.S. policy towards Taipei https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/taiwan-asks-us-not-cause-misunderstanding-after-flag-tweet-removed-2021-07-08/ https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/taiwan-asks-us-no...
  - indymike 4y ago
    > One could say that Apple it's following US guidance on this. Emoji are governed by the Unicode Consortium, not the US government. In this case, the Taiwan flag is character number 1848, codes: U+1F1F9 U+1F1FC
    - avar 4y ago
      Unicode doesn't have the flag of Taiwan, it has a way of encoding "tw" in the context of an ISO county code.
cronix 4y ago
Why would Apple say no? They just proved they'll likely say yes by removing airdrop in China, at request of the CCP government, because protesters were using it to pass along info bypassing the internet so it couldn't be censored. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/30/apple-limited-a-crucial-airdrop-function-in-china-just-weeks-before-protests.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/30/apple-limited-a-crucial-aird...
- thebruce87m 4y ago
  That article doesn’t say they removed it.
mensetmanusman 4y ago
“Could Apple use that new CSAM-hash-comparison feature to accomplish something similar?” Yes, that was why there was an uproar. If any hash is deemed bad, that could be of anything.
baybal2 4y ago
develatio 4y ago
Apple already applied a change in how AirDrop works in China[0]. It's fair enough to assume that they won't say "no" to the CCP. [0] - https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-restricted-airdrop-capabilities-in-china-ahead-of-protests-2022-11 https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-restricted-airdrop-cap...
- an48713 4y ago
  https://www.macrumors.com/2022/11/10/airdrop-10-minute-limit-to-expand-globally/ https://www.macrumors.com/2022/11/10/airdrop-10-minute-limit...
matt3210 4y ago
AAPL will do what it's told by the government so the shareholders keep their money.
- fortuna86 4y ago
  Apple often says no to the US Government, something Huawei cannot do by law. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/14/apple-refuses-barr-request-to-unlock-pensacola-shooters-iphones.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/14/apple-refuses-barr-request-t...
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    And the US government can say "no" right back to Apple since iPhone-unlocking tools are/have been readily available and purchased in droves by American law-enforcement: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grayshift https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grayshift
    - 99hexagons 4y ago
      Big difference.
    - fortuna86 4y ago
      What does that have to do with my statement ?
      - smoldesu 4y ago
        It illustrates that your consent is worthless where protecting personal privacy is concerned.
        fortuna86 4y ago
        What does my consent have to do with anything? The difference between commanding private industry to do something and hacking them yourself is the difference between free and unfree societies. Why you are trying to blur the line I don't know.
_boffin_ 4y ago
Let’s take a few steps back… What’s even easier than that? - Was this video taken within a geofenced area between these times? - does audio contain any filtered words?
DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
I would not be surprised if this turned out to be yet another of those unverifiable China stories that pop up all the time, but later turn out to be wrong.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
janalsncm 4y ago
Does anyone know how it works between Chinese and US Apple IDs? For example if I FaceTime someone in China or use iMessage with them, is that protected from the Chinese government? Is there any info on this?

by jmoak3 4y ago

kube-system 4y ago

Apple doesn't own or operate iCloud in China. They have no say in the matter.

jmoak3 4y ago
Maybe I'm confused but the new CSAM-hash-comparison thing runs on-device, right? Or no EDIT: Yeah looks to be on-device (page 4): https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/CSAM_Detection_Technical_Summary.pdf https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/CSAM_Detection_Techni...
- kube-system 4y ago
  That is irrelevant when it comes to iCloud China. iCloud in China is owned and operated by the government of Guizhou. They own the building, the servers, and the private keys.
  - jmoak3 4y ago
    I'm aware of iCloud in China. If a user chooses not to use cloud, could this mechanism still allow protestors sharing videos to be identified? EDIT: Or is this mechanism only for giving Apple the green light to pop open images already stored on the cloud (in which case you're right, the whole conversation is irrelevant) EDIT2: looks like this is just for giving apple the green light to open up uploaded images - which is irrelevant in China because they can already do that
    - kube-system 4y ago
      I would presume on-device software updates come from the same mechanism.
    - vineyardmike 4y ago
      The CSAM hash utility was to pop open images in an encrypted iCloud, or witch china (nor the US) have today. There’s no reason that the tech couldn’t be used on non-iCloud images in china. But by that logic, they could just force-ably upload images in china and forget the whole hashing nonsense.

solarkraft 4y ago

> Could Apple use that new CSAM-hash-comparison feature to accomplish something similar? Only if the video is previously known, as far as I'm aware.

bogantech 4y ago

> If this is happening, I hope Apple says no to the CCP when they inevitably ask Apple to do the same Apple gladly does whatever the CCP asks of them

heavyset_go 4y ago

The same Apple that censors the Taiwan flag emoji[1]? Apple will do whatever the CCP tells them to do because they are not willing to lose a market of a billion+ potential customers. Companies have no problem being complicit in enabling authoritarianism as long as it's profitable. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/7/20903613/apple-hiding-taiwan-flag-emoji-hong-kong-macau-china https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/7/20903613/apple-hiding-tai...

atlasunshrugged 4y ago
Not just losing the market but losing access to their network of fabricators and suppliers that make the iphone possible at Apple's healthy (to say the least) margins
323 4y ago
To be fair, not even the US govt recognizes the Taiwan flag. One could say that Apple it's following US guidance on this. > the White House deleted a social media post on COVID-19 vaccine donations that included Taiwan's flag. A spokesman for the White House National Security Council called the use of the flag "an honest mistake" by the team handling graphics and social media that should not be viewed as a shift in U.S. policy towards Taipei https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/taiwan-asks-us-not-cause-misunderstanding-after-flag-tweet-removed-2021-07-08/ https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/taiwan-asks-us-no...
- indymike 4y ago
  > One could say that Apple it's following US guidance on this. Emoji are governed by the Unicode Consortium, not the US government. In this case, the Taiwan flag is character number 1848, codes: U+1F1F9 U+1F1FC
  - avar 4y ago
    Unicode doesn't have the flag of Taiwan, it has a way of encoding "tw" in the context of an ISO county code.

cronix 4y ago

Why would Apple say no? They just proved they'll likely say yes by removing airdrop in China, at request of the CCP government, because protesters were using it to pass along info bypassing the internet so it couldn't be censored. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/30/apple-limited-a-crucial-airdrop-function-in-china-just-weeks-before-protests.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/30/apple-limited-a-crucial-aird...

thebruce87m 4y ago
That article doesn’t say they removed it.

mensetmanusman 4y ago

“Could Apple use that new CSAM-hash-comparison feature to accomplish something similar?” Yes, that was why there was an uproar. If any hash is deemed bad, that could be of anything.

baybal2 4y ago

develatio 4y ago

Apple already applied a change in how AirDrop works in China[0]. It's fair enough to assume that they won't say "no" to the CCP. [0] - https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-restricted-airdrop-capabilities-in-china-ahead-of-protests-2022-11 https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-restricted-airdrop-cap...

an48713 4y ago
https://www.macrumors.com/2022/11/10/airdrop-10-minute-limit-to-expand-globally/ https://www.macrumors.com/2022/11/10/airdrop-10-minute-limit...

matt3210 4y ago

AAPL will do what it's told by the government so the shareholders keep their money.

fortuna86 4y ago
Apple often says no to the US Government, something Huawei cannot do by law. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/14/apple-refuses-barr-request-to-unlock-pensacola-shooters-iphones.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/14/apple-refuses-barr-request-t...
- smoldesu 4y ago
  And the US government can say "no" right back to Apple since iPhone-unlocking tools are/have been readily available and purchased in droves by American law-enforcement: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grayshift https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grayshift
  - 99hexagons 4y ago
    Big difference.
  - fortuna86 4y ago
    What does that have to do with my statement ?
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      It illustrates that your consent is worthless where protecting personal privacy is concerned.
      - fortuna86 4y ago
        What does my consent have to do with anything? The difference between commanding private industry to do something and hacking them yourself is the difference between free and unfree societies. Why you are trying to blur the line I don't know.

_boffin_ 4y ago

Let’s take a few steps back… What’s even easier than that? - Was this video taken within a geofenced area between these times? - does audio contain any filtered words?

DiogenesKynikos 4y ago

I would not be surprised if this turned out to be yet another of those unverifiable China stories that pop up all the time, but later turn out to be wrong.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

janalsncm 4y ago

Does anyone know how it works between Chinese and US Apple IDs? For example if I FaceTime someone in China or use iMessage with them, is that protected from the Chinese government? Is there any info on this?