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Kraken lays off 30% of staff
- Finnucane 4y ago"hundreds of millions of new users entered the crypto space" Without their crypto space suits, apparently.
- Animats 4y agoIs volume down, or is in-house speculation less successful?
- CommitSyn 4y ago> We’re reducing our global workforce by approximately 1,100 people, or 30 percent, in order to adapt to current market conditions. Why does a crypto exchange need 4,000 employees?
- ChuckNorris89 4y agoTo show growth to investors.
- TrickyRick 4y agoBingo
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago> Why does a crypto exchange need 4,000 employees Because they’re not an exchange. They’re a broker, lender and apparently a bank [1]. [1] https://www.kraken.com/bank https://www.kraken.com/bank
- recvonline 4y agoI would assume most of the 1.1k people is support. You have timezones, hundreds of thousands of customers (if not millions). Kraken has one of the best support I encountered. But with less people buying/selling (as with Amazon: Less buying stuff, less using etc), companies are laying off Marketing, Customer Support, maybe Recruiters and HR. Maybe stopped side projects. I would not expect they shrink their engineering by much.
- KrakenEng 4y ago30% of Eng was cut. Multiple engineers on my team were cut. The QA team was basically wiped out. As far as I can tell, all the lawyers are still here.
- sokoloff 4y agoA followup question, if I may: why does a crypto exchange need 2,900 employees?
- diehunde 4y agoI don't know if you are genuinely curious but this question is getting kind of old. Every time a company does layoffs, somebody asks, "why does an X company need X number of people?". Every opening has a purpose. No company hires people for fun, and unless you are a company employee you don't know all the different areas, projects, and support staff a company needs to run when they are actually a business trying to make money.
- CommitSyn 4y agoIt is a genuinely curious question. I haven't seen the abundance of "Why do they have so many employees" question as I'm new here, and that just seemed like a lot of employees to have if they can just lay off 1/3rd of their workforce overnight.
- hn_throwaway_99 4y agoI feel like HN should just auto add a comment that says "Why does <company X> need <n> employees?" with a follow up comment that explains how large corporations work. It literally comes up in every single layoff announcement or other discussion of company size in some way, and the follow on comments are essentially the same every single time. I'm not saying that a lot of these companies aren't overstaffed (indeed, that's why they are having layoffs!) but these questions always come across as pretty naive in the same way I hear "It's just a website! I could build that in a weekend"-type comments.
- stickfigure 4y agoI've come to look at it the other way. "Because that's how large companies work" is a lazy non-answer. An honest answer to this question would break it down: # of engineers, # of ops, # of sales, # of hr, etc. And ideally break it down by business division. Of course that requires some real domain knowledge. I've personally watched morons come in, hire lots of useless employees, and destroy millions of dollars of cash while producing negative effect on the product in a company I cofounded. It happens. Despite the common refrain, the question is genuinely interesting and it deserves an interesting answer. What's old is the retort "that's just how big companies work". It might entirely be true that 4000 employees is reasonable (or even low!) for an exchange, but I'd really like to hear the arguments.
- kwertyoowiyop 4y agoMaybe they were needed to computerize their operations instead of using manual spreadsheets as some recent clownfests were reported to do?
- wpietri 4y agoThe answer might be interesting, but I don't think the question it is. I almost never see it in a form that indicates a sincere grappling with what it might take to do a given company's job. To me it mainly reads as arrogant dismissal that a company could possibly need that many people. It's along the lines of the general-issue jackassery of "I could build X in 2 weeks", which personally I find tiresome.
- rabuse 4y agoIf it were up to HN, I swear, every company would just have 30 employees or it's a "waste".
- dopeboy 4y agoSeriously. Everyone here seems to think every business should be a permanent bootstrapped, profitable company. If you play the venture game, which Kraken is, you need to grow fast. Typically, though not always, that means hiring people to support that growth. WhatsApp is the exception, not the rule.
- capableweb 4y agoThis is hacker news after all, lots of us are hackers that prefer non-VC boosted (nor "cryptocurrency boosted") businesses that are run a bit more lean. Although, it used to be called "Startup News" but lets just ignore that fact for a bit so we can scream at bloated companies for a bit longer.
- nabaraz 4y agoHN thinks a junior developer bootstrapping a webapp over the weekend is production ready.
- kwertyoowiyop 4y agonpm install crypto-exchange
- commandlinefan 4y agoAnd those other 29 people are just there to ask me dumb questions.
- bombcar 4y agoI mean HN runs with like three dudes. People have no trouble understanding why Walmart has 2.3 million employees - because they roughly understand “each store has X”.
- 4y ago
- nsonha 4y agoIn comparison, a certain "microblogging" platform has over 7500 while making no money or net positive value to society.
- bombcar 4y ago“Had”
- cjg 4y agoYou could have 300 like FTX and have completely inadequate financial controls.
- WFHRenaissance 4y agoMostly support people in my experience.
- renewiltord 4y agoBecause the crypto exchanges with less failed.
- throw8383833jj 4y agoAt least they're handling it responsibly and generously: From their blog: Separation pay: We will pay 16 weeks of base pay for all departing Krakenites inclusive of the paid leave period. Performance bonus: For those eligible, we will pay each departing Krakenite their bonus as determined by their manager. Benefits: We will offer eligible Krakenites 4 months of healthcare continuation coverage inclusive of the paid leave period. All Krakenites will continue to have access to counseling services during this period. Extension of exercise window: We will extend departing Krakenites’ window to exercise their vested stock options. Immigration support: Kraken will provide dedicated visa and immigration support for those currently on company-sponsored visas. Outplacement support: We will provide career support for departing Krakenites, including networking opportunities, job search best practices, interview guidance, and more.
- pb7 4y agoSeverance at most recent layoffs has been very generous. Getting laid off sucks but this is just about the best way to do it.
- shadowpho 4y ago
- hn_throwaway_99 4y agoI thought Twitter gave 3 months, no?
- agilob 4y agoNot for everyone. First time they offered 3 months, then they cried for people to come back, then fired them (and more) again with 1 or 3 weeks severance
- UncleOxidant 4y agoOne month for the people laid off after that layoff.
- Veen 4y agoI'm flabbergasted they had so many employees that 30% is over 1000. Still, terrible time of year for this to happen to their employees.
- dylan604 4y agoWhy is it that approaching a Hallmark made up consumerism focused holiday supposed to be more terrible to be laid off than any other time?
- whimsicalism 4y agoYou learn new things every day. Personally, I didn't know the Hallmark corporation was present at the Council of Nicaea (c. 325).
- parineum 4y agoI remember when the council of Nicaea blessed the day to honor Santa Claus with lights, a tree and, of course, plentiful gifts for the non-needy.
- jyrkesh 4y agoBecause a lot of society buys into said consumerism and expects bonuses and stability heading into lots of potentially irresponsible gift-buying decisions for their friends and family? And I'd expect the calculus is "we're planning to offer severance and paying out bonuses, so they have stability in their consumer choices, and we can start the clock earlier on their severance by doing it as soon as possible (including during a holiday when those employees probably weren't going to be very productive anyway)"
- agentwiggles 4y agoBecause the made up consumerism focused holiday is celebrated by most Americans and generally involves buying gifts for loved ones and attempting to relax with family. Since most people use the money and PTO from their jobs to enable these goals, losing one's job during this time of year adds an extra layer of stress to those who might have hoped to celebrate the culturally dominant evil made up consumerist capitalist holiday with their loved ones.
- psychlops 4y agoDon't they realize they are supposed to create a KRY currency and pump it up to supply value to their company and pay their employees? Perhaps if the CEO had gone to Stanford, he would have been better educated in effective altruism and have placed their needs higher.
- brezelgoring 4y ago>Perhaps if the CEO had gone to Stanford, he would have been better educated in effective altruism and have placed their needs higher Careful, some might infer a snide on their church and bite back to you. Not me, I share your view.
- autotune 4y agoIs anyone actually defending effective altruism right now? SBF has effectively flushed it down the drain along with the investors he scammed.
- seattle_spring 4y agoAnyone I've seen in the IDW camp is still very much defending effective altruism. It's kind of terrifying.
- concordDance 4y agoMe. The movement and ideas are good even if the most famous person connected to it is bad. You don't hear about the vast majority of EAs who just quietly try and improve girl's education in Indian or distribute malaria nets (to mention two I know personally).
- Spellman 4y agoAdding to this, groups like 80000 Hours and Evidence Action are EA and still worth it.
- throw_pm23 4y ago
- brink 4y agoI remember earlier in the year they said that they were unaffected by the bear market and were still hiring. [1] I interviewed with them earlier in the year, glad it didn't work out. [1]: https://www.businessinsider.com/coinbase-blockchaincom-and-kraken-are-still-hiring-despite-layoffs-2022-7 https://www.businessinsider.com/coinbase-blockchaincom-and-k...
- basch 4y agodifferent CEO back then. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/21/technology/ceo-kraken-cryptocurrency-jesse-powell.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/21/technology/ceo-kraken-cry... It looks like hn changed the link as well. the original link had more info about their past statements. https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/11/30/kraken-cuts-30-of-workforce-amid-crypto-winter/ https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/11/30/kraken-cuts-30-...
- resuresu 4y agoThe contagion continues to spread.
- rvz 4y agoExactly. The tech layoff contagion is still spreading when all that cheap money has left. Crypto included. And yes before HN denies 'engineers not affected in layoffs narrative', they certainly are affected.
- aruanavekar 4y agoStrange, LinkedIn shows staff of 500+ https://www.linkedin.com/company/krakenfx/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/krakenfx/ and the press-release mentioned "1,100 people, or 30 percent". Number do not add up.
- tedunangst 4y agoMaybe they have employees who are not on LinkedIn.
- woodruffw 4y agoLinkedIn showed ~3400 for them when I checked a few days ago, so 1,100 is approximately 30%.
- lucasmullens 4y agoDid someone see your comment and change it? I see "3,400+ Krakenites" and "1,001-5,000 employees".
- acedTrex 4y agoLinkedIn is not an authoritative source lol
- newmac 4y agoKraken regularly used shell/cover companies to hire employees. They have a pretty complex web of fronts not-called-Kraken. Entire offices are 'employed' by one of these companies.
- woodruffw 4y ago> Since the start of this year, macroeconomic and geopolitical factors have weighed on financial markets. This is an incredible couching of the last 9 months of cryptocurrency market behavior. Does anybody actually operate on their belief that "geopolitical factors," rather than astonishing amounts of fraud, are responsible for the current downturn?
- masklinn 4y agoIn fairness the astonishing amounts of fraud have been there all along.
- woodruffw 4y agoVery true! I guess "precipitation of the consequences of fraud" would have been more precise.
- nightski 4y agoAs is true in traditional finance as well. If you want to escape fraud altogether you might as well not have any wealth. The entire 2008 financial crises was due to fraud...
- Sebb767 4y agoPeople are still defrauded without wealth. See loan sharks, for example, or people arguing you should use debt to invest in the newest crypto hype. So even that escape hatch does not work.
- brightball 4y agoYep. Honestly it’s just been a question of whether you were going to try to take advantage on the way up or not.
- knorker 4y ago"It's only when the tide goes out that you find out who's been swimming naked" Fraud and ponzis work fine for a while, but a downturn is exactly what causes its instability to show.
- game_the0ry 4y agoIf you have your crypto on Kraken, or ANY exchange for that matter, migrate your funds to cold storage self custody NOW. Figure it out, back up your keys on paper, it's not that hard.
- panzagl 4y ago30% of staff released by the Kraken...
- eloff 4y agoI'm so glad I turned down the job offer at Kraken. The reason I turned it down was because I felt that crypto was a bubble waiting to pop (back in March, but that's been my "wrong" opinion for the last 5 years or more.) The tech stack was nice, the pay was excellent, the product I would have been working on is comparable to Bloomberg Terminal, so it was pretty cool too. But I just thought the job might go away in the near future.
- Hendrikto 4y agoKraken likely laid off marketing and support staff, not mainly engineering.
- animitronix 4y agoGive it a few more months
- jiveturkey 4y agoIf you've held that opinion for so long, why did you even apply to Kraken at all? What would have swayed you to accept their offer?
- mrweasel 4y agoMaybe they didn't apply, but was approached with an offer?
- guessmyname 4y agoIn that case, user eloff is using the wrong terminology. An offer, in the context of a job interview, always refers to a (paper) contract describing the job title, salary, equity, benefits and other clauses, and implies that the company is ready to hire the candidate. However, if your assumption is correct, that the company approached eloff with an offer without an interview, that actually means an invitation to have an interview with the company, with no guarantees of getting the job, so when eloff says “I'm so glad I turned down the job offer at Kraken”, I read that as “I declined an invitation to interview with Kraken”. I have heard many people use the word “offer” to describe an invitation to interview for a job, and it irks me every time.
- chson 4y agoAll these layoffs make me a bit nervous to be graduating next week. There are still countless positions posted though so I'm still fairly optimistic about entering the job market.
- purec 4y agoCongratulations!
- cmrdporcupine 4y agoYou'll be fine. Just stay away from crypto.
- naillo 4y agoIs it naive of me to think that CEOs aren't really much better macro predictors than most of us and are kind of doing this in a wave like fad "because that's what everyone else is doing"?
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago> CEOs aren't really much better macro predictors than most of us This isn’t a CEO’s job.
- wpietri 4y agoI think that's very realistic. One of the really startling things for me the first time we deposited a big VC check was how compelling the experience is. Printing out an ATM receipt with 7 figures on it was very memorable. We had to remind ourselves that however much it felt like success, it didn't mean shit in terms of our real goals. I think that's much harder for people who are in that situation with less life experience and little or no experience building actual businesses. Coaching at entrepreneur events, I discovered there are a lot of people whose goal is to "be the next Mark Zuckerberg" (or whoever) or who wanted to found a unicorn. Who were thinking about it as a life stage, as in "I'm not sure if I'll found a startup or go to grad school". And I suspect that's even more true lately with the vast amounts of VC money sloshing around. It must be quite easy to pay more attention to your investors and your YC cohort and the tech press than the grubby realities of commerce.
- bombcar 4y agoThere is a weirdness with money - it feels very similar as income whether it is profit, an investment, or a loan. Part of the reason cash out refinancing is so fraught with peril.
- simonebrunozzi 4y agoThe board is telling them to, irrespective of whether they think about it themselves.
- bibabaloo 4y agoAbsolutely. It makes sense; if your competitors are hiring, you need to hire in order to keep up and so you don't get out-executed. If they're firing, then maybe you don't need to "keep up with the Jones" as much.
- Animatronio 4y agoThey committed the most heinous of all crimes - firing engineers. And then bragging about it on HN!
- cmcconomy 4y agowhat's kraken
- rib3ye 4y agoFWIW, Kraken is the most reputable and longest-running CEX. They even precede Coinbase. Edit: more better words.
- ericsoderstrom 4y agoprecede?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Seb-C 4y agoIf this is the best that the crypto bros can produce, then I'm glad that I'm staying away from it because their API is a joke technically.
- gigatexal 4y agoFor a company built on a Ponzi-scheme (crypto) they sure are being good to their employees and that’s laudable. “Separation pay: We will pay 16 weeks of base pay for all departing Krakenites inclusive of the paid leave period. Performance bonus: For those eligible, we will pay each departing Krakenite their bonus as determined by their manager. Benefits: We will offer eligible Krakenites 4 months of healthcare continuation coverage inclusive of the paid leave period. All Krakenites will continue to have access to counseling services during this period. Extension of exercise window: We will extend departing Krakenites’ window to exercise their vested stock options. Immigration support: Kraken will provide dedicated visa and immigration support for those currently on company-sponsored visas. Outplacement support: We will provide career support for departing Krakenites, including networking opportunities, job search best practices, interview guidance, and more.”
- cwkoss 4y agoPeople who don't understand what ponzi schemes are love calling crypto a ponzi scheme.
- skulk 4y agoPeople who profit from Ponzi schemes love pretending that their returns represent real value from the economy.
- gigatexal 4y agoWell said. This is what I was trying to say and failing to.
- gigatexal 4y agoLol. Tons of crap coins, fake stable coins, grifters launching ICOs, SBF, bridges getting hacked, being able to print a coin and then get randoms to buy it. Coins named after dogs that mean or reference nothing. Some 20 years? in and what value has the blockchain provided? What is it being used in that has changed the world? Crypto bulls are all the same: Hayek acolytes hell bent on currency that isn’t fiat. It is a Ponzi-scheme: it only works if you can find another putz to buy a coin. Also only the early “investors” made any money in crypto. Just like in a Ponzi scheme. ;) Again back to the original post though good on this “company” for doing right by its employees.
- kwertyoowiyop 4y ago“Krakenites” - oh that is maximal cringe
- karp773 4y ago> Since the start of this year, macroeconomic and geopolitical factors have weighed on financial markets. Am I the only one who finds it ironic that they blame geopolitical factors affecting what was shilled as a safe heaven from governments and geopolitical games?
- rchaud 4y agoCEOs talk out of both sides of their mouth, news at 11.
- KrakenEng 4y agoThis wasn't just a cut to sales or support staff. 30% of engineering was layed off. I would say QA/QE was decimated, but I'm not sure if anyone was left.
- woeirua 4y agoHow long before they also file for bankruptcy?
- fuzzythinker 4y agoNot to be confused with Kragen Auto Parts that was bought by O'Reilly Auto Parts.
- minusthebrandon 4y agoI received a message from a recruiter there last week. I mentioned that I wasn't interested because of the crypto market right now. Her response was basically to say "just found out the position is no longer being filled", which I'm assuming is because of the impending layoffs. Then this week I see they laid off 30% of their staff. It's crazy to think that they hadn't stopped hiring long before they decided to cut 1,000+ jobs.