5 ms·

neat idea but the project is like 10 years old, and last commit was 3+ years ago and only works on java edition. would like to see something like this, but for

neat idea but the project is like 10 years old, and last commit was 3+ years ago and only works on java edition. would like to see something like this, but for other city builders like Caesar

kuschku 4y ago
> only works on java edition Yes, as the project says, Minecraft. Not the cut-down mobile game with microtransactions that claims to be Minecraft.
- sho_hn 4y ago
  I'm not playing Minecraft, but this has fascinated me from afar. AIUI, Microsoft has two teams on two different continents essentially developing two very similar but subtly incompatible versions of the same game. Funky. Do they share any code or formats? Are the client/server interoperable? Does the C++ one even have a server implementation?
  - Pako 4y ago
    Servers are not interoperable by default. There is 3rd party software that acts as a proxy letting Bedrock players connect to Java servers but it'll just remove anything that the more limited client doesn't support. They both use completely different network stacks, Bedrock using RakNet over UDP, Java using Netty (?) over TCP, so they have to be translated accordingly.
    - sho_hn 4y ago
      Thanks! So I gather Microsoft has renamed Bedrock Edition to just "Minecraft" and then there's "Minecraft: Java Edition". What's the player base split between these? Do PC players still generally prefer the Java Edition?
      - RedNifre 4y ago
        The invisible majority of players uses Bedrock. The majority of players that stream/post videos or use/write mods use Java. If you want to play with friends (Macos, Linux etc.) you need Java, because Bedrock is Windows and consoles only.
        zellyn 4y ago
        There is https://github.com/minecraft-linux/mcpelauncher-manifest https://github.com/minecraft-linux/mcpelauncher-manifest, which can run the Android JARs on MacOS or Linux (by shimming/implementing the Android APIs it uses), but a few months back one of the updates dramatically changed the rendering system, and the lone(?) MacOs/Linux maintainer of mcpelauncher is still catching up. See https://github.com/minecraft-linux/mcpelauncher-manifest/issues/719 https://github.com/minecraft-linux/mcpelauncher-manifest/iss... Until that breakage, I ran it quite successfully on MacOS (although it _did_ have occasional crashes)
        sho_hn 4y ago
        Interestingly, it looks like the Bedrock-based "Education Edition" is on MacOS, but normal Bedrock is not.
        zellyn 4y ago
        Yes. So clearly it's not a question of being able to run, or of weird graphics quirks or something. It's a strange omission. Given that Mojang is now owned by Microsoft, it's slightly suspicious…
    - virusduck 4y ago
      You can use Geyser [0] to "bridge the gap" to Bedrock clients. There are bugs here and there, but it works pretty great to get everyone on the same server. [0] https://geysermc.org/ https://geysermc.org/
  - kurisufag 4y ago
    > Are the client/server interoperable? not officially. some projects[0] try to bridge the protocols, but I've never personally seen one that operated without issues. [0] e.g. https://geysermc.org/ https://geysermc.org/
    - MayeulC 4y ago
      I had no idea the wire protocol was understood so well. Are there similar project to bridge, i.e. Minetest with Mineclone2 and Minecraft (java)?
  - zellyn 4y ago
    I recently got into Minecraft due to kid reaching Minecraft age. I keep meaning to write an intro for technical parents, because it's very confusing at first. The original was written in Java, and people decompiled and reverse engineered it almost completely, so there are tons of mods that reach in and change things deeply. They then created MCPE (pocket edition) which was a "cut-down mobile edition". That evolved into "Bedrock Minecraft", which is not "cut-down", and is what runs on mobile devices and gaming consoles (XBox, Switch, PS*). (It also runs on Windows, but not on Macs.) At this point, the Bedrock and Java editions are more or less equivalently complex, although there are still differences in how many mobs spawn (generally fewer in bedrock, presumably due to (legacy?) performance constraints), as well as tons and tons of differences, subtle and unsubtle, in where and how things spawn, how the mobs behave, etc. Notably, there are significant differences in how redstone works that render most Java edition contraptions non-working in Bedrock. There are actually many, many more Bedrock players, because lots of kids play on iPads and consoles, but most of the notable YouTube personalities and servers people stream from (Hermitcraft, etc.) are Java, and Java has an incredibly diverse universe of mods and modded servers. Mojang (now a division of Microsoft) seems to value parity between Java and Bedrock: new features seem equivalent in both, and many point releases contain minor parity fixes. But it's unlikely they would make complex dynamics like redstone equivalent. IIUC, there seems to be a vague consensus that Bedrock is probably the future, for several reasons: a) As you point out, having two completely different codebases and teams is crazy b) Bedrock runs (or can run - MacOS?) on everything c) Bedrock is C++, and hence can perform better d) There are more recurring revenue opportunities for Bedrock: Mojang-provided servers ("Realms") are Bedrock, and there are the "microtransactions" mentioned in a parent comment: you can pay for skins and add-ons (essentially "mods" that use a provided and sanctioned extension API rather than modifying the binary/bytecode). Minecraft is unusual in that you pay for it once but they keep updating and adding content forever (so far), so recurring revenue is important for Mojang. If you're getting into Minecraft, I highly recommend Pixlriffs' Minecraft Guide for Java edition players, or Prowl8413's Bedrock Guide for Bedrock players. They will walk you through the early game, and then explain how the various "farms" work ("farming" is when you figure out how to build structures and systems that exploit the game mechanics to produce large quantities of particular resources). To answer a couple of your questions, the client/servers are not interoperable, but there are proxies like GeyserMC that translate. The C++ one has a server implementation (Bedrock Dedicated Server - BDS) available in binary form, that you can run on Linux or Windows. As far as I know, there are no third-party bedrock servers that implement all (or even most) of the dynamics of the vanilla game, since that would essentially require re-implementing everything, but if contributing to that process is your jam, I highly recommend the Dragonfly folks: their Go server implementation is quite clean, their discord is active and helpful, and their various proxies and tools and libraries are very useful.
  - jrm4 4y ago
    I'd say it's a not-inaccurate summation to say "Bedrock" is the closed one (e.g. for consoles) and "Java" is the open one.
PcChip 4y ago
Don't let your dreams be dreams, start coding!
aliqot 4y ago
wait till you hear how long it's been since simcity got a commit
jrm4 4y ago
It's technically inaccurate but probably fundamentally fair to say that "Bedrock" is the closed version and "Java" is the open one.

neat idea but the project is like 10 years old, and last commit was 3+ years ago and only works on java edition. would like to see something like this, but for other city builders like Caesar

kuschku 4y ago

> only works on java edition Yes, as the project says, Minecraft. Not the cut-down mobile game with microtransactions that claims to be Minecraft.

sho_hn 4y ago
I'm not playing Minecraft, but this has fascinated me from afar. AIUI, Microsoft has two teams on two different continents essentially developing two very similar but subtly incompatible versions of the same game. Funky. Do they share any code or formats? Are the client/server interoperable? Does the C++ one even have a server implementation?
- Pako 4y ago
  Servers are not interoperable by default. There is 3rd party software that acts as a proxy letting Bedrock players connect to Java servers but it'll just remove anything that the more limited client doesn't support. They both use completely different network stacks, Bedrock using RakNet over UDP, Java using Netty (?) over TCP, so they have to be translated accordingly.
  - sho_hn 4y ago
    Thanks! So I gather Microsoft has renamed Bedrock Edition to just "Minecraft" and then there's "Minecraft: Java Edition". What's the player base split between these? Do PC players still generally prefer the Java Edition?
    - RedNifre 4y ago
      The invisible majority of players uses Bedrock. The majority of players that stream/post videos or use/write mods use Java. If you want to play with friends (Macos, Linux etc.) you need Java, because Bedrock is Windows and consoles only.
      - zellyn 4y ago
        There is https://github.com/minecraft-linux/mcpelauncher-manifest https://github.com/minecraft-linux/mcpelauncher-manifest, which can run the Android JARs on MacOS or Linux (by shimming/implementing the Android APIs it uses), but a few months back one of the updates dramatically changed the rendering system, and the lone(?) MacOs/Linux maintainer of mcpelauncher is still catching up. See https://github.com/minecraft-linux/mcpelauncher-manifest/issues/719 https://github.com/minecraft-linux/mcpelauncher-manifest/iss... Until that breakage, I ran it quite successfully on MacOS (although it _did_ have occasional crashes)
      - sho_hn 4y ago
        Interestingly, it looks like the Bedrock-based "Education Edition" is on MacOS, but normal Bedrock is not.
        zellyn 4y ago
        Yes. So clearly it's not a question of being able to run, or of weird graphics quirks or something. It's a strange omission. Given that Mojang is now owned by Microsoft, it's slightly suspicious…
  - virusduck 4y ago
    You can use Geyser [0] to "bridge the gap" to Bedrock clients. There are bugs here and there, but it works pretty great to get everyone on the same server. [0] https://geysermc.org/ https://geysermc.org/
- kurisufag 4y ago
  > Are the client/server interoperable? not officially. some projects[0] try to bridge the protocols, but I've never personally seen one that operated without issues. [0] e.g. https://geysermc.org/ https://geysermc.org/
  - MayeulC 4y ago
    I had no idea the wire protocol was understood so well. Are there similar project to bridge, i.e. Minetest with Mineclone2 and Minecraft (java)?
- zellyn 4y ago
  I recently got into Minecraft due to kid reaching Minecraft age. I keep meaning to write an intro for technical parents, because it's very confusing at first. The original was written in Java, and people decompiled and reverse engineered it almost completely, so there are tons of mods that reach in and change things deeply. They then created MCPE (pocket edition) which was a "cut-down mobile edition". That evolved into "Bedrock Minecraft", which is not "cut-down", and is what runs on mobile devices and gaming consoles (XBox, Switch, PS*). (It also runs on Windows, but not on Macs.) At this point, the Bedrock and Java editions are more or less equivalently complex, although there are still differences in how many mobs spawn (generally fewer in bedrock, presumably due to (legacy?) performance constraints), as well as tons and tons of differences, subtle and unsubtle, in where and how things spawn, how the mobs behave, etc. Notably, there are significant differences in how redstone works that render most Java edition contraptions non-working in Bedrock. There are actually many, many more Bedrock players, because lots of kids play on iPads and consoles, but most of the notable YouTube personalities and servers people stream from (Hermitcraft, etc.) are Java, and Java has an incredibly diverse universe of mods and modded servers. Mojang (now a division of Microsoft) seems to value parity between Java and Bedrock: new features seem equivalent in both, and many point releases contain minor parity fixes. But it's unlikely they would make complex dynamics like redstone equivalent. IIUC, there seems to be a vague consensus that Bedrock is probably the future, for several reasons: a) As you point out, having two completely different codebases and teams is crazy b) Bedrock runs (or can run - MacOS?) on everything c) Bedrock is C++, and hence can perform better d) There are more recurring revenue opportunities for Bedrock: Mojang-provided servers ("Realms") are Bedrock, and there are the "microtransactions" mentioned in a parent comment: you can pay for skins and add-ons (essentially "mods" that use a provided and sanctioned extension API rather than modifying the binary/bytecode). Minecraft is unusual in that you pay for it once but they keep updating and adding content forever (so far), so recurring revenue is important for Mojang. If you're getting into Minecraft, I highly recommend Pixlriffs' Minecraft Guide for Java edition players, or Prowl8413's Bedrock Guide for Bedrock players. They will walk you through the early game, and then explain how the various "farms" work ("farming" is when you figure out how to build structures and systems that exploit the game mechanics to produce large quantities of particular resources). To answer a couple of your questions, the client/servers are not interoperable, but there are proxies like GeyserMC that translate. The C++ one has a server implementation (Bedrock Dedicated Server - BDS) available in binary form, that you can run on Linux or Windows. As far as I know, there are no third-party bedrock servers that implement all (or even most) of the dynamics of the vanilla game, since that would essentially require re-implementing everything, but if contributing to that process is your jam, I highly recommend the Dragonfly folks: their Go server implementation is quite clean, their discord is active and helpful, and their various proxies and tools and libraries are very useful.
- jrm4 4y ago
  I'd say it's a not-inaccurate summation to say "Bedrock" is the closed one (e.g. for consoles) and "Java" is the open one.

PcChip 4y ago

Don't let your dreams be dreams, start coding!

aliqot 4y ago

wait till you hear how long it's been since simcity got a commit

jrm4 4y ago

It's technically inaccurate but probably fundamentally fair to say that "Bedrock" is the closed version and "Java" is the open one.