4 ms·

The fact that you can't see such measures as being draconian is kinda the point of this thread. The way that the heavy handed nature of the Australian governmen

The fact that you can't see such measures as being draconian is kinda the point of this thread. The way that the heavy handed nature of the Australian government approach seems normalized to your average Australian is precisely the normalization of authoritarianism being protested!

throwawayxxcr 4y ago
Here's a summary of US states' quarantine and isolation statutes (since, to many Australians "freedom" means whatever the US does): https://www.ncsl.org/research/health/state-quarantine-and-isolation-statutes.aspx https://www.ncsl.org/research/health/state-quarantine-and-is... Have a look at "freedom-loving" red states like Florida, Texas, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Mississippi, Georgia, Arkansas and Alabama. All seem to be quite "draconian" when it comes to quarantine That eliminates the US. Maybe there's some other country that doesn't have "draconian" quarantine measures?
- strangeattractr 4y ago
  I'm genuinely confused by your point. Are you saying that because other countries have quarantine restrictions, that makes their pandemic approach equivalently restrictive as Australia was? Victoria spent over 250 days in lockdown between March 2020 and October 2021. We had curfews at 6pm for weeks and were allowed out of the house for 1 hour a day and not beyond 5km of our houses. Are you seriously asserting that if the US enacted these restrictions, I would be on here professing that these were the pinnacle of freedom? What I will remark is that US citizens have certain constitutional protections which we do not that in theory inhibit their government's ability to enact restrictions like these i.e. "freedom of movement".
  - _carbyau_ 4y ago
    6pm curfew? Did Sydney do that? Melbourne didn't. The rest seems about right. But having seen what Italy was going through - lockdowns with COVID still spreading and hospitals overloaded with the dying. I didn't want that for us. The "freedom of COVID movement" people were cursed many times - they kept the lockdown running for longer because they couldn't see beyond themselves. They were the cause of the curfews because they tried to use cover of darkness.
    - TapWaterBandit 4y ago
  - throwawayxxcr 4y ago
    We were talking about the "lift sneeze man" violating quarantine, and whether it was "draconian" or not for the authorities to pursue him. I pointed out, by way of the US, that authorities pursuing someone who violated a quarantine order is not uniquely Australian nor particularly draconian. We were not discussing the merits, or lack thereof, of lockdowns. Let's not shift the goalposts. But FYI: Here's a list of lockdowns in response to Covid worldwide, including the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_lockdowns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_lockdowns
_carbyau_ 4y ago
... Not sure where in my post I comment on authoritarianism. I was criticising an absurdly skewed take compared to the source provided. But sure. Lets go into this. Part 1. Authoritarianism. I don't like it. I do see the Australian government getting worse with it. And there is very little I could do to stop it other than vote right wing nutters out of parliament. Part 2. heavy handed approach to COVID I agree with it - even in hindsight. Society had no vaccine. No RAT. Awkward PCR testing process with delays. No real defense. The ONLY thing that we could do was to halt the spread until we could get a vaccine. As demonstrated by "elevator sneeze man", you can't trust the populace at large not to spread it. And there were fuckups. Apart from "elevator sneeze man", the airport quarantine bungle anyone? These fuckups should be investigated in their own right. But it largely worked. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries USA 100 526 312 cases, 1 105 029 deaths Australia 10 651 218 cases, 16 119 deaths Right now, Australia has ~10% of the number of cases as the US. Which is fair because we're roughly 10% the population size and now we're vaccinated COVID has been allowed to roam. Australia has ~1.5% of the number of COVID deaths as the US. Which is down to being vaccinated BEFORE we let COVID roam. I like my parents. I like the parents of many of my friends. At least some of them would have died due to COVID if it had been let to run rampant before we got a vaccine. Conclusion So yeah, I was happy to live through the Melbourne lockdown. As traumatic as it was, it was better than the alternative. But ScoMo should be friggin' nailed for his "multiple ministries" bullshit.
- justinclift 4y ago
  As a data point, I'm in Melbourne too and agree with your take on both parts. :)
  - TapWaterBandit 4y ago
    https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1598202863414497281/photo/1 https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1598202863414497281/p... The hypocrisy is so obvious to anyone not blinded by fear and partisan politics.
    - 4y ago

throwawayxxcr 4y ago

Here's a summary of US states' quarantine and isolation statutes (since, to many Australians "freedom" means whatever the US does): https://www.ncsl.org/research/health/state-quarantine-and-isolation-statutes.aspx https://www.ncsl.org/research/health/state-quarantine-and-is... Have a look at "freedom-loving" red states like Florida, Texas, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Mississippi, Georgia, Arkansas and Alabama. All seem to be quite "draconian" when it comes to quarantine That eliminates the US. Maybe there's some other country that doesn't have "draconian" quarantine measures?

strangeattractr 4y ago
I'm genuinely confused by your point. Are you saying that because other countries have quarantine restrictions, that makes their pandemic approach equivalently restrictive as Australia was? Victoria spent over 250 days in lockdown between March 2020 and October 2021. We had curfews at 6pm for weeks and were allowed out of the house for 1 hour a day and not beyond 5km of our houses. Are you seriously asserting that if the US enacted these restrictions, I would be on here professing that these were the pinnacle of freedom? What I will remark is that US citizens have certain constitutional protections which we do not that in theory inhibit their government's ability to enact restrictions like these i.e. "freedom of movement".
- _carbyau_ 4y ago
  6pm curfew? Did Sydney do that? Melbourne didn't. The rest seems about right. But having seen what Italy was going through - lockdowns with COVID still spreading and hospitals overloaded with the dying. I didn't want that for us. The "freedom of COVID movement" people were cursed many times - they kept the lockdown running for longer because they couldn't see beyond themselves. They were the cause of the curfews because they tried to use cover of darkness.
  - TapWaterBandit 4y ago
- throwawayxxcr 4y ago
  We were talking about the "lift sneeze man" violating quarantine, and whether it was "draconian" or not for the authorities to pursue him. I pointed out, by way of the US, that authorities pursuing someone who violated a quarantine order is not uniquely Australian nor particularly draconian. We were not discussing the merits, or lack thereof, of lockdowns. Let's not shift the goalposts. But FYI: Here's a list of lockdowns in response to Covid worldwide, including the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_lockdowns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_lockdowns

_carbyau_ 4y ago

... Not sure where in my post I comment on authoritarianism. I was criticising an absurdly skewed take compared to the source provided. But sure. Lets go into this. Part 1. Authoritarianism. I don't like it. I do see the Australian government getting worse with it. And there is very little I could do to stop it other than vote right wing nutters out of parliament. Part 2. heavy handed approach to COVID I agree with it - even in hindsight. Society had no vaccine. No RAT. Awkward PCR testing process with delays. No real defense. The ONLY thing that we could do was to halt the spread until we could get a vaccine. As demonstrated by "elevator sneeze man", you can't trust the populace at large not to spread it. And there were fuckups. Apart from "elevator sneeze man", the airport quarantine bungle anyone? These fuckups should be investigated in their own right. But it largely worked. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries USA 100 526 312 cases, 1 105 029 deaths Australia 10 651 218 cases, 16 119 deaths Right now, Australia has ~10% of the number of cases as the US. Which is fair because we're roughly 10% the population size and now we're vaccinated COVID has been allowed to roam. Australia has ~1.5% of the number of COVID deaths as the US. Which is down to being vaccinated BEFORE we let COVID roam. I like my parents. I like the parents of many of my friends. At least some of them would have died due to COVID if it had been let to run rampant before we got a vaccine. Conclusion So yeah, I was happy to live through the Melbourne lockdown. As traumatic as it was, it was better than the alternative. But ScoMo should be friggin' nailed for his "multiple ministries" bullshit.

justinclift 4y ago
As a data point, I'm in Melbourne too and agree with your take on both parts. :)
- TapWaterBandit 4y ago
  https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1598202863414497281/photo/1 https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1598202863414497281/p... The hypocrisy is so obvious to anyone not blinded by fear and partisan politics.
  - 4y ago