7 ms·

I'm Australian and this remark is lunatic-fringe hogwash. These governments are not firebombing domestic youtube-grade nonentities or anyone else, nor are they

I'm Australian and this remark is lunatic-fringe hogwash. These governments are not firebombing domestic youtube-grade nonentities or anyone else, nor are they enabling it. The notable corruption we saw recently was Scott Morrison making himself a secret minister of several portfolios, and for these and other sins the electorate severely rebuked his party at recent state and federal elections. That is what democracy, not authoritarianism, looks like. The folks you should be suspicious of are those spoonfeeding these garbage takes to the credulous.

Manuel_D 4y ago
Democracy that infringes on rights and liberties is still authoritarianism. Trump was democratically elected, did that make his bans on Muslims entering the US or other such policies any less authoritarian? Without protections of civil liberties democracy is easily capable of resulting in authoritarianism. As the saying goes, two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner is a democracy.
- kneebonian 4y ago
  > Trump was democratically elected, did that make his bans on Muslims entering the US or other such policies any less authoritarian? This is nonsense, Trump never put a ban on Muslims, from the ACLU (a stronlgy anti-Trump organization) President Donald > Trump signed an Executive Order that banned foreign nationals from seven predominantly Muslim countries from visiting the country for 90 days, suspended entry to the country of all Syrian refugees indefinitely, and prohibited any other refugees from coming into the country for 120 days.[1] Banning people from certain countries is a whole different ball game than banning people from a certain religion, further the country with the world's largest Muslim population, Indonesia wasn't even on the list. Let me ask you how do you feel about the government labeling and suppressing misinformation? [1] https://www.aclu-wa.org/pages/timeline-muslim-ban https://www.aclu-wa.org/pages/timeline-muslim-ban
  - Manuel_D 4y ago
    Trump repeatedly stated that the point of the ban was to ban Muslims from entering the country. Your own source calls it a "Muslim ban": > As the Muslim ban went into effect on Saturday, lawyers from the ACLU-WA and the NW Immigrant Rights Project rushed to SeaTac Airport to help immigrants on incoming flights who were being denied entry to the U.S. Kind of hard to take this seriously, when your own source contradicts you. As an analogy, conservatives talk about gun bans in California and New York yet bolt action rifles remain legal there. Not every gun is banned, so it's wrong to call it a "gun ban"? > Let me ask you how do you feel about the government labeling and suppressing misinformation? They shouldn't and the fact that said governments are democracies doesn't make it any less authoritarian.
    - alvah 4y ago
      "Trump repeatedly stated that the point of the ban was to ban Muslims from entering the country." Do you have a citation for this? I’m no fan of Trump, but that’s not what I remember.
      - Manuel_D 4y ago
        He called for “a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States” https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/28/mike-pence-once-called-trumps-muslim-ban-unconstitutional-he-just-applauded-the-order/?variant=d846d44221ecba95 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/28/mi... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13769#Trump_campaign_and_administration_statements_before_the_order's_signing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13769#Trump_ca...
        alvah 4y ago
        Fair enough - this was pre-election but still inexcusable. I didn't think he had explicitly called the 2017 travel ban a ban on Muslims, and I haven't seen anything to suggest he did.
robswc 4y ago
>These governments are not firebombing domestic youtube-grade nonentities or anyone else, nor are they enabling it. We don't know that one way or another. We just know he has pissed off someone enough to firebomb his house. Unless he's pissing people off in private, the only people he seems to piss off are those that are involved in corruption. The vast majority of times a journalist is murdered or targeted, it is relation to their reporting. But sure, that is all speculation. What isn't speculation is the wide array of shady actions taken before the firebombing. Also some of the stuff that happened during covid was just insane to see.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- gwillz 4y ago
  Are we talking about friendlyjordies here? He most certainly has pissed people off. I wouldn't put it past mafia types to have a go at him after his relentless mockery of Barilaro. Not to suggest he's connected, just the whole Italian thing. Not to take away from your point though. I too feel that our government, both state and federal, goes unchecked. Just that conspiracies about firebombing are hardly evidence. Instead consider the refusal to implement a federal ICAC or the NSW liberals overthrowing their own and cherry picking candidates.
rfd4sgmk8u 4y ago
You won't see it until you leave that place. The firebombing of Shanks-Markovina should be a wake up call about the power of deeply entrenched corrupt and anti-democratic bodies. The existence of the private criminal investigation into Shanks by interest groups should leave one fearful on the path being followed there. The Australian economy exists as source of raw materials for the world, a laundromat for wealth via gambling, and a ponzi around housing to enrich the ruling class. Any political force that challenges these pillars is not allowed to be.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
theknocker 4y ago
22c 4y ago
> Scott Morrison making himself a secret minister of several portfolios, and for these and other sins the electorate severely rebuked his party at recent state and federal elections Didn't this "secret minister" situation only really come to light AFTER the elections?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
strangeattractr 4y ago
There were people arrested for posts on Facebook during COVID lockdowns. We had police on the ground hassling every person in sight. Multiple friends of mine were fined for taking a momentary pause on their 1 hour of allotted outside time per day. Police were checking whether coffee cups were indeed full of liquid. We had statewide man hunts for people who sneezed in lifts that they were the only one in. Protests against the draconian measures were violently suppressed by the state government. It was one of the most important and impactful government decisions in the history of the country, affecting the lives of every person and dissenting political demonstration was banned. The Federal government passed a law requiring a backdoor for all encrypted communication in the country and the press was completely silent. We ban drawn Japanese porn for some unknown reason while allowing real porn which unambiguously provides greater risk of harm. Prior to internet distribution of video games, many were simply banned for import on the whims of a parental advisory board. Australia is a nation obsessed with prohibition and there's nothing Australians love more than collective moral outrage followed by a cathartic wholesale ban. I'm Australian and whenever I see valid criticism of the country on the internet I soon find an upset Australian replying. They never really refute the underlying point, they'll reply with a non-sequitur or talk about how it doesn't affect their lives. The reality is most Australians don't even feel the noose around their neck because they've never stepped out of line in any way. Most protections on liberty are for extreme and unusual circumstances, you don't notice their absence until it's too late. The vast majority of Chinese people trust their government, and believe the various restrictions on speech and liberty are in the best interests of the nation. Their curbs on liberty are too invasive of course, ours are necessary.
- throwawayxxcr 4y ago
  We had statewide man hunts for people who sneezed in lifts that they were the only one in Source?
  - strangeattractr 4y ago
    https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/covid-positive-fugitive-anthony-karam-knocks-back-offer-of-hotel-quarantine-c-3753227 https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/covid-positi...
throwawayxxcr 4y ago
These governments are not firebombing domestic youtube-grade nonentities No one said it was governments who firebombed the person in question. As for Youtube-grade non-entities: I think the line is rapidly blurring between people on the internet and "real" journalists. I don't really follow the person in question though, so I can't speak for his credentials. for these and other sins the electorate severely rebuked his party at recent state and federal elections State elections maybe, but this secret portfolio stuff only came out after the federal election, when he lost his importance. If he had won the election, would it have come out?
EE84M3i 4y ago
>Scott Morrison making himself a secret minister of several portfolios For anyone confused about this, like me, wikipedia has an overview. The TLDR is that in Australia apparently you can have more than one person holding a ministry (health, etc) and the incumbent prime minister did this without telling the public. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Morrison_ministerial_positions_controversy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Morrison_ministerial_p...

Manuel_D 4y ago

Democracy that infringes on rights and liberties is still authoritarianism. Trump was democratically elected, did that make his bans on Muslims entering the US or other such policies any less authoritarian? Without protections of civil liberties democracy is easily capable of resulting in authoritarianism. As the saying goes, two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner is a democracy.

kneebonian 4y ago
> Trump was democratically elected, did that make his bans on Muslims entering the US or other such policies any less authoritarian? This is nonsense, Trump never put a ban on Muslims, from the ACLU (a stronlgy anti-Trump organization) President Donald > Trump signed an Executive Order that banned foreign nationals from seven predominantly Muslim countries from visiting the country for 90 days, suspended entry to the country of all Syrian refugees indefinitely, and prohibited any other refugees from coming into the country for 120 days.[1] Banning people from certain countries is a whole different ball game than banning people from a certain religion, further the country with the world's largest Muslim population, Indonesia wasn't even on the list. Let me ask you how do you feel about the government labeling and suppressing misinformation? [1] https://www.aclu-wa.org/pages/timeline-muslim-ban https://www.aclu-wa.org/pages/timeline-muslim-ban
- Manuel_D 4y ago
  Trump repeatedly stated that the point of the ban was to ban Muslims from entering the country. Your own source calls it a "Muslim ban": > As the Muslim ban went into effect on Saturday, lawyers from the ACLU-WA and the NW Immigrant Rights Project rushed to SeaTac Airport to help immigrants on incoming flights who were being denied entry to the U.S. Kind of hard to take this seriously, when your own source contradicts you. As an analogy, conservatives talk about gun bans in California and New York yet bolt action rifles remain legal there. Not every gun is banned, so it's wrong to call it a "gun ban"? > Let me ask you how do you feel about the government labeling and suppressing misinformation? They shouldn't and the fact that said governments are democracies doesn't make it any less authoritarian.
  - alvah 4y ago
    "Trump repeatedly stated that the point of the ban was to ban Muslims from entering the country." Do you have a citation for this? I’m no fan of Trump, but that’s not what I remember.
    - Manuel_D 4y ago
      He called for “a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States” https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/28/mike-pence-once-called-trumps-muslim-ban-unconstitutional-he-just-applauded-the-order/?variant=d846d44221ecba95 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/28/mi... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13769#Trump_campaign_and_administration_statements_before_the_order's_signing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13769#Trump_ca...
      - alvah 4y ago
        Fair enough - this was pre-election but still inexcusable. I didn't think he had explicitly called the 2017 travel ban a ban on Muslims, and I haven't seen anything to suggest he did.

robswc 4y ago

>These governments are not firebombing domestic youtube-grade nonentities or anyone else, nor are they enabling it. We don't know that one way or another. We just know he has pissed off someone enough to firebomb his house. Unless he's pissing people off in private, the only people he seems to piss off are those that are involved in corruption. The vast majority of times a journalist is murdered or targeted, it is relation to their reporting. But sure, that is all speculation. What isn't speculation is the wide array of shady actions taken before the firebombing. Also some of the stuff that happened during covid was just insane to see.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
gwillz 4y ago
Are we talking about friendlyjordies here? He most certainly has pissed people off. I wouldn't put it past mafia types to have a go at him after his relentless mockery of Barilaro. Not to suggest he's connected, just the whole Italian thing. Not to take away from your point though. I too feel that our government, both state and federal, goes unchecked. Just that conspiracies about firebombing are hardly evidence. Instead consider the refusal to implement a federal ICAC or the NSW liberals overthrowing their own and cherry picking candidates.

rfd4sgmk8u 4y ago

You won't see it until you leave that place. The firebombing of Shanks-Markovina should be a wake up call about the power of deeply entrenched corrupt and anti-democratic bodies. The existence of the private criminal investigation into Shanks by interest groups should leave one fearful on the path being followed there. The Australian economy exists as source of raw materials for the world, a laundromat for wealth via gambling, and a ponzi around housing to enrich the ruling class. Any political force that challenges these pillars is not allowed to be.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

theknocker 4y ago

22c 4y ago

> Scott Morrison making himself a secret minister of several portfolios, and for these and other sins the electorate severely rebuked his party at recent state and federal elections Didn't this "secret minister" situation only really come to light AFTER the elections?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

strangeattractr 4y ago

There were people arrested for posts on Facebook during COVID lockdowns. We had police on the ground hassling every person in sight. Multiple friends of mine were fined for taking a momentary pause on their 1 hour of allotted outside time per day. Police were checking whether coffee cups were indeed full of liquid. We had statewide man hunts for people who sneezed in lifts that they were the only one in. Protests against the draconian measures were violently suppressed by the state government. It was one of the most important and impactful government decisions in the history of the country, affecting the lives of every person and dissenting political demonstration was banned. The Federal government passed a law requiring a backdoor for all encrypted communication in the country and the press was completely silent. We ban drawn Japanese porn for some unknown reason while allowing real porn which unambiguously provides greater risk of harm. Prior to internet distribution of video games, many were simply banned for import on the whims of a parental advisory board. Australia is a nation obsessed with prohibition and there's nothing Australians love more than collective moral outrage followed by a cathartic wholesale ban. I'm Australian and whenever I see valid criticism of the country on the internet I soon find an upset Australian replying. They never really refute the underlying point, they'll reply with a non-sequitur or talk about how it doesn't affect their lives. The reality is most Australians don't even feel the noose around their neck because they've never stepped out of line in any way. Most protections on liberty are for extreme and unusual circumstances, you don't notice their absence until it's too late. The vast majority of Chinese people trust their government, and believe the various restrictions on speech and liberty are in the best interests of the nation. Their curbs on liberty are too invasive of course, ours are necessary.

throwawayxxcr 4y ago
We had statewide man hunts for people who sneezed in lifts that they were the only one in Source?
- strangeattractr 4y ago
  https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/covid-positive-fugitive-anthony-karam-knocks-back-offer-of-hotel-quarantine-c-3753227 https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/covid-positi...

throwawayxxcr 4y ago

These governments are not firebombing domestic youtube-grade nonentities No one said it was governments who firebombed the person in question. As for Youtube-grade non-entities: I think the line is rapidly blurring between people on the internet and "real" journalists. I don't really follow the person in question though, so I can't speak for his credentials. for these and other sins the electorate severely rebuked his party at recent state and federal elections State elections maybe, but this secret portfolio stuff only came out after the federal election, when he lost his importance. If he had won the election, would it have come out?

EE84M3i 4y ago

>Scott Morrison making himself a secret minister of several portfolios For anyone confused about this, like me, wikipedia has an overview. The TLDR is that in Australia apparently you can have more than one person holding a ministry (health, etc) and the incumbent prime minister did this without telling the public. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Morrison_ministerial_positions_controversy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Morrison_ministerial_p...