12 ms·

For many widows, the hardest part is mealtime (2019)

119 points by wallflower 4y ago

Zachsa999 4y ago
While eating at a restaurant yesterday I saw my old friend who lost his partner to cancer 2 months ago eating alone. He was looking very lonely, and I was struck with how eating is an immense part of our social life as humans. I walked over and chatted after which he looked physically healthier. Let's not forget our loved ones.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- bombcar 4y ago
  In general I have a rule - if I see someone at a restaurant I know who is alone I offer to join them. Or if they walk in I wave them over. I don’t get a ton of chances to utilize this rule, but it’s been successful.
  - UIUC_06 4y ago
    You're a nice person. I'm often alone, and I might or might not welcome the company, depending. It's probably easier for a table of three or more to welcome a stranger. There are actually restaurants where "big tables full of strangers" are the rule, not the exception. "Sit at the bar" is my recommendation. Being alone is more normal there, and it's easy to chat with the person next to you.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      Yeah, one of the nicest things about Amtrak long-distance trains is you sit to dinner at a packed table for 4 no matter how many are in your party. Somehow that leads to conversation when sitting next to someone for ten hours on a plane doesn't.
      - pengaru 4y ago
        I found this one of the most obnoxious aspects of riding the Zephyr. Even when there were plenty of open dining tables staff packed us in like sardines with complete strangers who half the time devolved the conversation into insane right-wing politics and spouting q-anon level conspiracy theories. It only served to further cement my preference for fasting on train rides. That round-trip was shared with my mother who attended every meal in the dining car, and sometimes I just went with to keep her company. The social aspect could be great if the quality of the people were more predictably good... but it's an outmoded form of travel inching across the USA, I found the people mostly unwelcome at the shared table.
        UIUC_06 4y ago
        Different strokes. Maybe you and your mother could subtly make fun of the crazies, in a way that you two could laugh about later. I knew a guy whose standard answer to a crazy conspiracist was to look seriously at them and say, "It's even worse than you think!" Never tried that, myself.
        pengaru 4y ago
        That's not really what I'm interested in when trying to enjoy/share a meal. Much of the social problems in the Zephyr's dining car are created by Amtrak. I'm not sure if it was this way pre-covid, but presently only sleeper car passengers have dining car access. It could be another form of skimpflation. But the current experience on that train is highly segregated coach vs. sleeper car passengers. This selects for a specific demographic in the dining car. The socializing is much healthier and more diverse in the lounge car where all passengers have access, and you get to choose where you sit and have freedom to move around at will. What goes on in the dining car today is a complete shit show. (I rode the Zephyr between IL and CA four times this year, twice in coach and twice in a sleeper (two round trips))
  - paganel 4y ago
    I know that you're doing it with a good heart, just wanted to point out that are some of us who do like to eat out alone. After my divorce about 10 years ago there were a few years when I went out eating all by myself and I couldn't say that I was sad during those going outs, quite the contrary. Also, I personally don't like socialising, as in talking, while eating, and I guess I'm not alone in this.
    - Zachsa999 4y ago
      Each to his own. Just don't forget the vastly different experiences everyone on this planet has.
      - paganel 4y ago
        Of course, hence my comment.
sokoloff 4y ago
https://archive.ph/7uA1X https://archive.ph/7uA1X
notacoward 4y ago
There's a lesser version of this in the "empty nest" scenario. When my daughter (only child) went to college, there were suddenly some meals I had no reason to cook - it's funny how you can miss cooking something you never particularly cared to eat - and many snacks I had no reason to stock. Even the meals I do cook have often needed adjustment for two people instead of three. Still haven't found a good half-size pan for my "Hamtramck style" pizza (Detroit style with kielbasa). The kitchen is definitely a sadder place than it used to be, and it does make me wonder about the days when it'll be just one. Also, now I understand better why my mother always kept my favorite cookies around even though we only visited once a year or less. I never had the heart to tell her that they were always stale by the time we got there.
- nickphx 4y ago
  My oldest recently moved out, youngest off to college... I'm finding it difficult to adjust cooking habits as well. It's interesting to me how our behaviors adjust to accommodate life's needs and how noticeable they become once they're no longer needed.
- zorgmonkey 4y ago
  Lloyd Pans makes really great detroit style pizza pans in several sizes (the 8"x10" one might be good for two people depending on how much you eat), hope that helps a bit. https://lloydpans.com/detroit-style-pizza-pans.html https://lloydpans.com/detroit-style-pizza-pans.html
Buttons840 4y ago
Several months ago I learned I have celiac disease (the "no gluten" autoimmune disease) and I also have extremely high LDL cholesterol (~200 LDL-C), so I've removed all gluten and almost all saturated fat from my diet. At this point I don't believe I can eat out anymore, and yeah, it sucks. So many old friendships were maintained by a lunch meeting every 6 months. Eating is just the default social activity everyone participates in. I don't know a replacement for that. The standard American diet lives up to its acronym. It's sad that a single food allergy and a goal to follow dietary guidelines eliminates almost all fast food and resturaunt food. Hell, at this point I believe anyone simply wanting to follow saturated fat guidelines is excluded from eating out. Nobody has to die in order for you to find yourself eating alone every meal.
- bombcar 4y ago
  If your friends know of your condition, perhaps during the warmer months instead of meeting at a restaurant you can meet at a park nearby - they can grab some takeout and you can bring something that meets your needs. It's relatively easy to find "gluten free" these days (though that varies on how actually gluten free it is) but the saturated fats are going to be harder to miss.
- equalsione 4y ago
  I've had similar experience. I found that I went through a kind of mourning for my old life for a while. It's a huge adjustment. It also eats up a huge amount of time - reading labels for hidden ingredients, trying to come up with a meal that you can make that doesn't include the bad things etc. It became very isolating. Eventually I decided I had to figure out a middle ground. I will meet people for "lunch" and just have coffee, or whatever I can tolerate from the menu. I have people over more often because I know what I cook won't make me sick. I went back to eating out - it takes a while to figure out/trust restaurants you can eat at. There will be mistakes along the way. Good luck - I hope it gets easier for you.
- jraby3 4y ago
  I somehow started inviting friends and meetings for walks instead of meals. It started because I was tired of sitting all day. And because I was connected to a VC and had meetings where I could dictate the terms, I’d let people know that I didn’t want to sit and see a PowerPoint. I wanted to walk along the beach (near my office) and walk. Now I also have a few friends I do this with. Friends I don’t see often. I find walking to be better for conversation, health, and just more fun. Not sure if this is possible. I live and work by the beach and near a lot of parks. But I strongly recommend at least offering it. There must be other people sick of sitting all the time.
LiquidInsect 4y ago
I'll be seven months in as of two days from now. I find myself making way too much food, and having to freeze things back. Things I used to make in bulk that would last us 3 meals now take me over a week to finish, if I don't just throw it out. If I don't want to cook, the thought of going out to eat by myself, getting a table for one, just feels pathetic and I don't want to do it. If I order delivery, I still end up getting too much. If I make some new thing, something she never got to try, I feel like crap because it's another experience we didn't get to have together. Same for going to a new restaurant. All of this will get easier with time but I wouldn't wish this life on anyone.
- sonofhans 4y ago
  I’m so sorry, that sounds unimaginably hard. It’s hard for me to cook interesting things when my SO is just out of town for a bit. One thing that did work for me when we were separated for a while was treating food like a chore, like showering or running. I gave myself permission to be monotonous, and just kept eating the same simple healthy things.
  - LiquidInsect 4y ago
    I have my phone remind me do to all those simple things that used to be effortless, like take a shower, eat something, feed the cat, water the plants, etc. It does tend to be a lot of the same stuff. I've made more or less the same breakfast for 7 months now.
    - trynewideas 4y ago
      Right after my spouse passed, my neighbors very cleverly asked me if I could make them coffee and bring it over every morning - I had an espresso maker, it was still peak pandemic with limited access to coffee shops, I'd been so isolated and careful as a caretaker that I wasn't a risk, and they were desperate to have lattes. That got me out of bed every day for months, right when I wanted to the least. I'd eventually have to leave the house to pick up coffee and milk. It meant making someone happy every day, doing something I enjoyed, saying hi and talking to someone face-to-face even if it was brief. That kept me going and held me accountable. Anything you can do like that is going to make things easier.
munificent 4y ago
Every time things like this come up, people rightly mention multigenerational households. But then someone else brings up the lack of privacy and imposition of having multiple generations under one roof. What I never heard people talk about, though is changing our architectural practices to support multigenerational households. There are "mother-in-law suites" you see sometimes (though these days they seem to be mostly for renters). But I think there is a huge opportunity to innovate in how we design homes to balance the need for community with larger families against the need for privacy and solitude.
- zrail 4y ago
  > changing our architectural practices to support multigenerational households Yes this. Our house has a mother in law suite. While we have tiny kids it's my office and my partner's art studio but it converts nicely into a guest suite. When my kids are grown I expect at least one of them will want to move to the MIL suite on a semi-permanent basis.
- screye 4y ago
  > changing our architectural practices to support multigenerational households This is true about so many things. Infrastructure and architecture around us lead to a majority of emergent properties in the way society interacts. In the 3rd world, it is fairly common to purchase an apartment for your parents in the same neighborhood as where you settle in. The free daycare itself makes up for the mortgage and the old people sitting by benches on evenings serve as communal protection while the kids play seemingly unsupervised.
  - 1270018080 4y ago
    At this point it's a topic beaten to death, and it's edgy to say, but I really believe the suburb/highway model 95% of America is stuck with is the root of all evil. Whether people voluntarily seek it out or they're trapped in it. Every bad thing I can think of seems to stem from it in one way or another. Physical, mental, financial, environmental, and political health all considered.
treeman79 4y ago
My dad passed away recently. My mom was constantly trying to cook for me. She did all the cooking for my dad. Was weird in that he wanted food cooked the same exact way as she had done for the last 48 years, no variation tolerated. Trouble being that she was is a terrible cook and he liked his food burnt to hell and loaded with sugar and massive quantities of taco seasoning. Pretty sure Taco Bell is healthier. So I ended up doing all the cooking. She seemed to make up for lack of cooking time by showing me things of his I might want for hours on end for multiple weeks. Me and siblings now have tons of boxes of stuff we don’t want. But it calmed her down for us to take it. I didn’t realize how important making the meals was to her. Not that she cares about the food. She knew it was terrible. She was excited to start eating the way she wants to. But 40+ years of habit is really hard to break. Side tip. We leaned hard way that social security survivor benefits and various pensions will stop immediately and take multiple months to switch to widow benefits. We got her covered. But was a nasty surprise.
euroderf 4y ago
When a person is enveloped in grief, cooking a meal is the most impossible thing to do. The reasons are many, but it is so. If someone you know has just lost their loved one, in those days soon after, visit them, and take containers with some meals you have prepared. Like, heat'em and eat'em. Even if you only go to check in and hug and drop them off. It will relieve that person of a burden.
- tenacious_tuna 4y ago
  A counterblanace to this: My stepfather is dying of melanoma. My mom says the last thing she wants is people bringing food by--largely because she just doesn't have the energy left to deal with socializing, in any capacity, even the polite "Oh, thanks" of receiving the food, or much worse the inevitable "So how's he doing? How are you?" I considered asking her if something like leaving a fridge accessible for people to stash things in without contact would help, but I felt a bit like I was missing the point: I think so often in situations like this we, those outside of the emotional experience, focus on ways we can help because it makes us feel better. Consistently what's been helpful for her, and for me, in talking with others isn't so much having suggestions or problem-solving, but just sharing the absolutely crushing absurdity of the experience of watching another human slowly die, and have the other person say "I don't even know what to say, that just sounds exhausting/insane/stressful." Culturally we seem to focus so much on accelerating these seasons of grief because we don't want people to remain in pain, but some of it's necessary. There's a balance of being able to sit in the loss, and let it be real, that's a necessary part of the grieving process. I might be missing your point a bit: of course having access to healthy food is useful when you're incapable of doing it yourself. I think I just personally wish for more awareness that most "outsiders'" immediate reaction when exposed to emotional pain of this magnitude is to find A Thing To Do to alleviate them of the emotional pressure they feel, regardless of the energy it requires from the sufferer to engage with that.
- trynewideas 4y ago
  I'm always going to caveat this with a request to get permission before bringing food. Aside from all the usual dietary concerns, it can backfire the same ways as other well-meaning acts - flowers that die in front of you, cards or gifts that make the worst memories persist. If multiple people do this without coordination, or I'm not hungry or simply don't like it, I felt guilty throwing it out. Even if I did eat it, if I ate it alone I associated that food with the grief and absence in that moment, which compounded the grief and made me resent the food, which festered guilt anyway. What I wanted so, so, so much more than the food was the company. I'd take a frozen pizza or a cold drive-thru burger and an evening of talking in those first weeks and months over a delicious homecooked meal that was dropped off with a brief visit and left alone with me, every single time. Staying as company felt inclusive and distracting in ways that helped. Dropping it off felt like I was a burden, a responsibility getting checked off of a list. In retrospect I know better, but in the moment it was a dangerous feeling. If that's all you can do, it's more than nothing, and it can be appreciated. But just ask first, communicate that, if you can then offer to do more when you're able to.
Insanity 4y ago
My grandmother became a widow this year, after almost 70 years of marriage. She talked daily about how she finds it hard to eat, or make food, for one. Our solution now is that she visits other family members for dinner instead, and that helps at least for dinner time.
pengaru 4y ago
This is just another negative to not diversifying your happiness sources and friend circles. When literally the only shared activity you engage in is eating at the same table with few other people, and that activity is also the only thing you do that brings pleasure, you're completely destroyed when it's disrupted. It's such a lazy, low-effort existence. Invest more effort and time in doing fun stuff, go camping, hiking, cycling, sailing, running, climbing... find good active friends who do diverse fun things where eating is an inconvenience because there's so much better things to do and you're no longer addicted to shoving comforting things in your mouth, go take some effing risks. Don't be surprised when you don't bother and what pittances of pleasure sources you had vanish and you're up shit's creek without a paddle, and probably don't even have your health because you've been pleasure eating for decades while likely living an otherwise sedentary boring ass life.
- vsef 4y ago
  This is such a lazy, bad take. I was deeply moved by the article thinking about my own relationship of twenty years, and imagining the inevitable death of one of us in the future. Much of my own pain would involve activities you suggest while giving advice about something you don't understand. I immediately thought about how my ski routine would be a trigger like this for me. I ski near 100 days a year. My first thought reading the article was how much I would hurt making morning coffee and breakfast without my husband and not talking and making ski plans for the day. And how hard and long it would be for that break in daily routine to no longer be a constant reminder of absence. All the harder by it's very routineness and connection to something that is otherwise very pleasurable to me. That this type of pain would be mitigated by "getting out there and doing fun stuff and having more friends and not pleasure eating" is a perspective with zero understanding of what the bond in a decades long marriage is like or why meal time is so emotionally salient.
  - pengaru 4y ago
    I just had to help my grieving mother with house repairs all summer and she's steeped in exactly this easily mitigated outcome. It's a completely absurd self-created easily predicted misery and extremely depressing to witness.
_448 4y ago
After my dad passed away, my mom returned home, where they had stayed for more than a decade. My sister called my mom that evening during dinner time to enquire how she was doing and whether she had her dinner. My mom said, "I am cooking, and I feel that he(i.e. my dad) is sitting at the dinner table wait to be served dinner. Even during lunch I felt his presence. I am not alone." My sister just hung up the phone and drove along with her husband to pick up my mom and bring her back with them. My mom is staying with them ever since.
ElijahLynn 4y ago
related: https://www.diamondapproach.org/public-page/theory-holes https://www.diamondapproach.org/public-page/theory-holes =========================== The Theory of Holes =========================== The Theory of Holes is a fundamental idea used in the Diamond Approach. Under usual circumstances, people are full of what we call “holes,” which refer to any parts of you that have been lost, meaning any parts of you that you have lost consciousness of. Ultimately what we have lost awareness of is our essence or pure Being—who we truly are. When we are not aware of our essence, it stops manifesting. Then we feel a sense of deficiency. So a hole is nothing but the absence of a certain part of our essence. It could be the loss of love, loss of value, loss of capacity for contact, loss of strength, any of the qualities of Essence. However, to say we have lost parts of Essence does not mean they are gone forever. You are simply cut off from consciousness of them. Let’s take, for example, the quality of value or self-esteem. When you are cut off from your value, the actual experience is a sense that there is a hole inside that feels empty. You feel a sense of deficiency, a sense of inferiority, and you want to fill this hole with value from the outside. You may try to use approval, praise, whatever. You try to fill the hole with acquired value. We walk around with lots of holes, but we usually aren’t aware of them. We’re usually aware of desires: “I want praise. I want to be successful. I want this person to love me. I want this or that experience.” The presence of desires and needs indicates the presence of holes. These holes originated during childhood, partly as a result of traumatic experiences or conflicts with the environment. Perhaps your parents did not value you. They didn’t treat you as if your wishes or presence were important, or act in ways that let you know that you mattered. They ignored your essential value. Because your value was not seen or acknowledged, you got cut off from that part of you; what was left was a hole. When you relate to someone in a deep way, you fill your holes with the other person. Some of your holes get filled with what you believe you’re getting from the other person. For example, you may feel valued because this person appreciates you. You don’t know consciously that you’re filling the hole with their appreciation. But when you are with that person, you feel valuable, and unconsciously you feel the other person is responsible for your value. Whatever this person is giving you feels like a part of you; it is part of the fullness that you experience. Except that the value you now feel is dependent on the presence of the other person. Your unconscious does not see as separate that part of the person that makes you feel valuable; you see it as part of you. When the person dies or the relationship ends, you don’t feel that you’re losing that person; you feel you’re losing whatever is filling the hole. You experience the loss of a part of yourself. It feels like you’re being cut and something is being taken out of you. You may feel as if you lost your heart, your security, your strength, your will—whatever the person fulfilled for you. When you lose a person close to you, you feel whatever hole that person has filled. It is rare that another person fills all your holes. You have many people and activities in your life, and still, they don’t fill all your holes. There will be some holes left, and this keeps the dissatisfaction going. Our society is set up to teach us that we should get the outside to fill our holes; we should get value, love, strength, and so on from outside. We talk about how wonderful it is to do things for other people, or to fall in love, or have a meaningful profession, as if these activities are what give life meaning. We attribute the meaning to the person or thing we think is responsible for it rather than to Essence, which is really responsible. People try to fill holes in different ways. A woman may think, “Oh, so that’s what I’m doing with my husband! I’m trying to use him to fill my holes. Okay, now I won’t talk to him for the next two weeks.” She is trying to fill her holes by blaming her husband for filling them in the past. It is very clever how we try to fill our holes. It takes a long time for people to understand that trying to fill holes doesn’t work. It is Essence, and only Essence, that can eliminate holes—deficiencies—and it does so from the inside.
david38 4y ago
One of the things I did with my family was disbanding the shared dinner. I’ll make food, anyone can make their own food, and eat whenever. I do restrict unhealthy food for the kids. It’s not a total free for all. By separating food and socializing, I hope to reduce their risk of obesity, which is not uncommon in my family. So far so good.
- mjh2539 4y ago
  This is a really bad idea. The shared family meal is essential to the proper socialization of children. There has been study after study done. You are making a terrible mistake.
fleddr 4y ago
Seeing this up close with my mother-in-law. Her husband passed away 2 years ago and she's still in the same broken state as the day he died. After 50 years together, the triggers are unavoidable. The town, every place in it, every routine, everything in the house, every action she does...it's all connected to him in an inescapable way. She's functional but it's as if any meaning and purpose was rugged away. She can't grow over it or recover, it runs too deep. 50 years isn't a phase, it's a blended life now brutally ripped apart. She's now effectively waiting for it to be over. Still living independently in an apartment building full of her kind, as us men pass early. Her future now holds waiting to become care-dependent, lose all control and dignity, and then some more waiting. Yes, controversial as it may be, I question the humanity of our "humane" approach. But I digress, and would emphasize to cherish your loved ones and your good years.
- OkayPhysicist 4y ago
  The only senior living situation I've ever witnessed that actually seemed like an enviable one is the one my paternal grandparents lived in. Place reminded me a lot of my rather nice university living situation, but with significantly larger apartments. Communal spaces including several dining halls with appropriately nice food, activities both actively organized (trips, approachable hikes, various clubs, classes, guest lecturers) and simply available (sports courts, a wood shop, a gym with a pool). Basically, university for those with a lower tolerance for discomfort, with a significantly more busy health clinic. Of course, that all came with the requirement of spending a not-so-small fortune. But it really demonstrates, to me at least, that the dichotomy between "living alone" and "wasting away in a care home that resembles a hospital" is a false one, a product of a cruel economic system more than anything else.

119 points by wallflower 4y ago

While eating at a restaurant yesterday I saw my old friend who lost his partner to cancer 2 months ago eating alone. He was looking very lonely, and I was struck with how eating is an immense part of our social life as humans. I walked over and chatted after which he looked physically healthier. Let's not forget our loved ones.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
bombcar 4y ago
In general I have a rule - if I see someone at a restaurant I know who is alone I offer to join them. Or if they walk in I wave them over. I don’t get a ton of chances to utilize this rule, but it’s been successful.
- UIUC_06 4y ago
  You're a nice person. I'm often alone, and I might or might not welcome the company, depending. It's probably easier for a table of three or more to welcome a stranger. There are actually restaurants where "big tables full of strangers" are the rule, not the exception. "Sit at the bar" is my recommendation. Being alone is more normal there, and it's easy to chat with the person next to you.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    Yeah, one of the nicest things about Amtrak long-distance trains is you sit to dinner at a packed table for 4 no matter how many are in your party. Somehow that leads to conversation when sitting next to someone for ten hours on a plane doesn't.
    - pengaru 4y ago
      I found this one of the most obnoxious aspects of riding the Zephyr. Even when there were plenty of open dining tables staff packed us in like sardines with complete strangers who half the time devolved the conversation into insane right-wing politics and spouting q-anon level conspiracy theories. It only served to further cement my preference for fasting on train rides. That round-trip was shared with my mother who attended every meal in the dining car, and sometimes I just went with to keep her company. The social aspect could be great if the quality of the people were more predictably good... but it's an outmoded form of travel inching across the USA, I found the people mostly unwelcome at the shared table.
      - UIUC_06 4y ago
        Different strokes. Maybe you and your mother could subtly make fun of the crazies, in a way that you two could laugh about later. I knew a guy whose standard answer to a crazy conspiracist was to look seriously at them and say, "It's even worse than you think!" Never tried that, myself.
        pengaru 4y ago
        That's not really what I'm interested in when trying to enjoy/share a meal. Much of the social problems in the Zephyr's dining car are created by Amtrak. I'm not sure if it was this way pre-covid, but presently only sleeper car passengers have dining car access. It could be another form of skimpflation. But the current experience on that train is highly segregated coach vs. sleeper car passengers. This selects for a specific demographic in the dining car. The socializing is much healthier and more diverse in the lounge car where all passengers have access, and you get to choose where you sit and have freedom to move around at will. What goes on in the dining car today is a complete shit show. (I rode the Zephyr between IL and CA four times this year, twice in coach and twice in a sleeper (two round trips))
- paganel 4y ago
  I know that you're doing it with a good heart, just wanted to point out that are some of us who do like to eat out alone. After my divorce about 10 years ago there were a few years when I went out eating all by myself and I couldn't say that I was sad during those going outs, quite the contrary. Also, I personally don't like socialising, as in talking, while eating, and I guess I'm not alone in this.
  - Zachsa999 4y ago
    Each to his own. Just don't forget the vastly different experiences everyone on this planet has.
    - paganel 4y ago
      Of course, hence my comment.

sokoloff 4y ago

https://archive.ph/7uA1X https://archive.ph/7uA1X

notacoward 4y ago

There's a lesser version of this in the "empty nest" scenario. When my daughter (only child) went to college, there were suddenly some meals I had no reason to cook - it's funny how you can miss cooking something you never particularly cared to eat - and many snacks I had no reason to stock. Even the meals I do cook have often needed adjustment for two people instead of three. Still haven't found a good half-size pan for my "Hamtramck style" pizza (Detroit style with kielbasa). The kitchen is definitely a sadder place than it used to be, and it does make me wonder about the days when it'll be just one. Also, now I understand better why my mother always kept my favorite cookies around even though we only visited once a year or less. I never had the heart to tell her that they were always stale by the time we got there.

nickphx 4y ago
My oldest recently moved out, youngest off to college... I'm finding it difficult to adjust cooking habits as well. It's interesting to me how our behaviors adjust to accommodate life's needs and how noticeable they become once they're no longer needed.
zorgmonkey 4y ago
Lloyd Pans makes really great detroit style pizza pans in several sizes (the 8"x10" one might be good for two people depending on how much you eat), hope that helps a bit. https://lloydpans.com/detroit-style-pizza-pans.html https://lloydpans.com/detroit-style-pizza-pans.html

Buttons840 4y ago

Several months ago I learned I have celiac disease (the "no gluten" autoimmune disease) and I also have extremely high LDL cholesterol (~200 LDL-C), so I've removed all gluten and almost all saturated fat from my diet. At this point I don't believe I can eat out anymore, and yeah, it sucks. So many old friendships were maintained by a lunch meeting every 6 months. Eating is just the default social activity everyone participates in. I don't know a replacement for that. The standard American diet lives up to its acronym. It's sad that a single food allergy and a goal to follow dietary guidelines eliminates almost all fast food and resturaunt food. Hell, at this point I believe anyone simply wanting to follow saturated fat guidelines is excluded from eating out. Nobody has to die in order for you to find yourself eating alone every meal.

bombcar 4y ago
If your friends know of your condition, perhaps during the warmer months instead of meeting at a restaurant you can meet at a park nearby - they can grab some takeout and you can bring something that meets your needs. It's relatively easy to find "gluten free" these days (though that varies on how actually gluten free it is) but the saturated fats are going to be harder to miss.
equalsione 4y ago
I've had similar experience. I found that I went through a kind of mourning for my old life for a while. It's a huge adjustment. It also eats up a huge amount of time - reading labels for hidden ingredients, trying to come up with a meal that you can make that doesn't include the bad things etc. It became very isolating. Eventually I decided I had to figure out a middle ground. I will meet people for "lunch" and just have coffee, or whatever I can tolerate from the menu. I have people over more often because I know what I cook won't make me sick. I went back to eating out - it takes a while to figure out/trust restaurants you can eat at. There will be mistakes along the way. Good luck - I hope it gets easier for you.
jraby3 4y ago
I somehow started inviting friends and meetings for walks instead of meals. It started because I was tired of sitting all day. And because I was connected to a VC and had meetings where I could dictate the terms, I’d let people know that I didn’t want to sit and see a PowerPoint. I wanted to walk along the beach (near my office) and walk. Now I also have a few friends I do this with. Friends I don’t see often. I find walking to be better for conversation, health, and just more fun. Not sure if this is possible. I live and work by the beach and near a lot of parks. But I strongly recommend at least offering it. There must be other people sick of sitting all the time.

LiquidInsect 4y ago

I'll be seven months in as of two days from now. I find myself making way too much food, and having to freeze things back. Things I used to make in bulk that would last us 3 meals now take me over a week to finish, if I don't just throw it out. If I don't want to cook, the thought of going out to eat by myself, getting a table for one, just feels pathetic and I don't want to do it. If I order delivery, I still end up getting too much. If I make some new thing, something she never got to try, I feel like crap because it's another experience we didn't get to have together. Same for going to a new restaurant. All of this will get easier with time but I wouldn't wish this life on anyone.

sonofhans 4y ago
I’m so sorry, that sounds unimaginably hard. It’s hard for me to cook interesting things when my SO is just out of town for a bit. One thing that did work for me when we were separated for a while was treating food like a chore, like showering or running. I gave myself permission to be monotonous, and just kept eating the same simple healthy things.
- LiquidInsect 4y ago
  I have my phone remind me do to all those simple things that used to be effortless, like take a shower, eat something, feed the cat, water the plants, etc. It does tend to be a lot of the same stuff. I've made more or less the same breakfast for 7 months now.
  - trynewideas 4y ago
    Right after my spouse passed, my neighbors very cleverly asked me if I could make them coffee and bring it over every morning - I had an espresso maker, it was still peak pandemic with limited access to coffee shops, I'd been so isolated and careful as a caretaker that I wasn't a risk, and they were desperate to have lattes. That got me out of bed every day for months, right when I wanted to the least. I'd eventually have to leave the house to pick up coffee and milk. It meant making someone happy every day, doing something I enjoyed, saying hi and talking to someone face-to-face even if it was brief. That kept me going and held me accountable. Anything you can do like that is going to make things easier.

munificent 4y ago

Every time things like this come up, people rightly mention multigenerational households. But then someone else brings up the lack of privacy and imposition of having multiple generations under one roof. What I never heard people talk about, though is changing our architectural practices to support multigenerational households. There are "mother-in-law suites" you see sometimes (though these days they seem to be mostly for renters). But I think there is a huge opportunity to innovate in how we design homes to balance the need for community with larger families against the need for privacy and solitude.

zrail 4y ago
> changing our architectural practices to support multigenerational households Yes this. Our house has a mother in law suite. While we have tiny kids it's my office and my partner's art studio but it converts nicely into a guest suite. When my kids are grown I expect at least one of them will want to move to the MIL suite on a semi-permanent basis.
screye 4y ago
> changing our architectural practices to support multigenerational households This is true about so many things. Infrastructure and architecture around us lead to a majority of emergent properties in the way society interacts. In the 3rd world, it is fairly common to purchase an apartment for your parents in the same neighborhood as where you settle in. The free daycare itself makes up for the mortgage and the old people sitting by benches on evenings serve as communal protection while the kids play seemingly unsupervised.
- 1270018080 4y ago
  At this point it's a topic beaten to death, and it's edgy to say, but I really believe the suburb/highway model 95% of America is stuck with is the root of all evil. Whether people voluntarily seek it out or they're trapped in it. Every bad thing I can think of seems to stem from it in one way or another. Physical, mental, financial, environmental, and political health all considered.

treeman79 4y ago

My dad passed away recently. My mom was constantly trying to cook for me. She did all the cooking for my dad. Was weird in that he wanted food cooked the same exact way as she had done for the last 48 years, no variation tolerated. Trouble being that she was is a terrible cook and he liked his food burnt to hell and loaded with sugar and massive quantities of taco seasoning. Pretty sure Taco Bell is healthier. So I ended up doing all the cooking. She seemed to make up for lack of cooking time by showing me things of his I might want for hours on end for multiple weeks. Me and siblings now have tons of boxes of stuff we don’t want. But it calmed her down for us to take it. I didn’t realize how important making the meals was to her. Not that she cares about the food. She knew it was terrible. She was excited to start eating the way she wants to. But 40+ years of habit is really hard to break. Side tip. We leaned hard way that social security survivor benefits and various pensions will stop immediately and take multiple months to switch to widow benefits. We got her covered. But was a nasty surprise.

euroderf 4y ago

When a person is enveloped in grief, cooking a meal is the most impossible thing to do. The reasons are many, but it is so. If someone you know has just lost their loved one, in those days soon after, visit them, and take containers with some meals you have prepared. Like, heat'em and eat'em. Even if you only go to check in and hug and drop them off. It will relieve that person of a burden.

tenacious_tuna 4y ago
A counterblanace to this: My stepfather is dying of melanoma. My mom says the last thing she wants is people bringing food by--largely because she just doesn't have the energy left to deal with socializing, in any capacity, even the polite "Oh, thanks" of receiving the food, or much worse the inevitable "So how's he doing? How are you?" I considered asking her if something like leaving a fridge accessible for people to stash things in without contact would help, but I felt a bit like I was missing the point: I think so often in situations like this we, those outside of the emotional experience, focus on ways we can help because it makes us feel better. Consistently what's been helpful for her, and for me, in talking with others isn't so much having suggestions or problem-solving, but just sharing the absolutely crushing absurdity of the experience of watching another human slowly die, and have the other person say "I don't even know what to say, that just sounds exhausting/insane/stressful." Culturally we seem to focus so much on accelerating these seasons of grief because we don't want people to remain in pain, but some of it's necessary. There's a balance of being able to sit in the loss, and let it be real, that's a necessary part of the grieving process. I might be missing your point a bit: of course having access to healthy food is useful when you're incapable of doing it yourself. I think I just personally wish for more awareness that most "outsiders'" immediate reaction when exposed to emotional pain of this magnitude is to find A Thing To Do to alleviate them of the emotional pressure they feel, regardless of the energy it requires from the sufferer to engage with that.
trynewideas 4y ago
I'm always going to caveat this with a request to get permission before bringing food. Aside from all the usual dietary concerns, it can backfire the same ways as other well-meaning acts - flowers that die in front of you, cards or gifts that make the worst memories persist. If multiple people do this without coordination, or I'm not hungry or simply don't like it, I felt guilty throwing it out. Even if I did eat it, if I ate it alone I associated that food with the grief and absence in that moment, which compounded the grief and made me resent the food, which festered guilt anyway. What I wanted so, so, so much more than the food was the company. I'd take a frozen pizza or a cold drive-thru burger and an evening of talking in those first weeks and months over a delicious homecooked meal that was dropped off with a brief visit and left alone with me, every single time. Staying as company felt inclusive and distracting in ways that helped. Dropping it off felt like I was a burden, a responsibility getting checked off of a list. In retrospect I know better, but in the moment it was a dangerous feeling. If that's all you can do, it's more than nothing, and it can be appreciated. But just ask first, communicate that, if you can then offer to do more when you're able to.

Insanity 4y ago

My grandmother became a widow this year, after almost 70 years of marriage. She talked daily about how she finds it hard to eat, or make food, for one. Our solution now is that she visits other family members for dinner instead, and that helps at least for dinner time.

pengaru 4y ago

This is just another negative to not diversifying your happiness sources and friend circles. When literally the only shared activity you engage in is eating at the same table with few other people, and that activity is also the only thing you do that brings pleasure, you're completely destroyed when it's disrupted. It's such a lazy, low-effort existence. Invest more effort and time in doing fun stuff, go camping, hiking, cycling, sailing, running, climbing... find good active friends who do diverse fun things where eating is an inconvenience because there's so much better things to do and you're no longer addicted to shoving comforting things in your mouth, go take some effing risks. Don't be surprised when you don't bother and what pittances of pleasure sources you had vanish and you're up shit's creek without a paddle, and probably don't even have your health because you've been pleasure eating for decades while likely living an otherwise sedentary boring ass life.

vsef 4y ago
This is such a lazy, bad take. I was deeply moved by the article thinking about my own relationship of twenty years, and imagining the inevitable death of one of us in the future. Much of my own pain would involve activities you suggest while giving advice about something you don't understand. I immediately thought about how my ski routine would be a trigger like this for me. I ski near 100 days a year. My first thought reading the article was how much I would hurt making morning coffee and breakfast without my husband and not talking and making ski plans for the day. And how hard and long it would be for that break in daily routine to no longer be a constant reminder of absence. All the harder by it's very routineness and connection to something that is otherwise very pleasurable to me. That this type of pain would be mitigated by "getting out there and doing fun stuff and having more friends and not pleasure eating" is a perspective with zero understanding of what the bond in a decades long marriage is like or why meal time is so emotionally salient.
- pengaru 4y ago
  I just had to help my grieving mother with house repairs all summer and she's steeped in exactly this easily mitigated outcome. It's a completely absurd self-created easily predicted misery and extremely depressing to witness.

_448 4y ago

After my dad passed away, my mom returned home, where they had stayed for more than a decade. My sister called my mom that evening during dinner time to enquire how she was doing and whether she had her dinner. My mom said, "I am cooking, and I feel that he(i.e. my dad) is sitting at the dinner table wait to be served dinner. Even during lunch I felt his presence. I am not alone." My sister just hung up the phone and drove along with her husband to pick up my mom and bring her back with them. My mom is staying with them ever since.

ElijahLynn 4y ago

related: https://www.diamondapproach.org/public-page/theory-holes https://www.diamondapproach.org/public-page/theory-holes =========================== The Theory of Holes =========================== The Theory of Holes is a fundamental idea used in the Diamond Approach. Under usual circumstances, people are full of what we call “holes,” which refer to any parts of you that have been lost, meaning any parts of you that you have lost consciousness of. Ultimately what we have lost awareness of is our essence or pure Being—who we truly are. When we are not aware of our essence, it stops manifesting. Then we feel a sense of deficiency. So a hole is nothing but the absence of a certain part of our essence. It could be the loss of love, loss of value, loss of capacity for contact, loss of strength, any of the qualities of Essence. However, to say we have lost parts of Essence does not mean they are gone forever. You are simply cut off from consciousness of them. Let’s take, for example, the quality of value or self-esteem. When you are cut off from your value, the actual experience is a sense that there is a hole inside that feels empty. You feel a sense of deficiency, a sense of inferiority, and you want to fill this hole with value from the outside. You may try to use approval, praise, whatever. You try to fill the hole with acquired value. We walk around with lots of holes, but we usually aren’t aware of them. We’re usually aware of desires: “I want praise. I want to be successful. I want this person to love me. I want this or that experience.” The presence of desires and needs indicates the presence of holes. These holes originated during childhood, partly as a result of traumatic experiences or conflicts with the environment. Perhaps your parents did not value you. They didn’t treat you as if your wishes or presence were important, or act in ways that let you know that you mattered. They ignored your essential value. Because your value was not seen or acknowledged, you got cut off from that part of you; what was left was a hole. When you relate to someone in a deep way, you fill your holes with the other person. Some of your holes get filled with what you believe you’re getting from the other person. For example, you may feel valued because this person appreciates you. You don’t know consciously that you’re filling the hole with their appreciation. But when you are with that person, you feel valuable, and unconsciously you feel the other person is responsible for your value. Whatever this person is giving you feels like a part of you; it is part of the fullness that you experience. Except that the value you now feel is dependent on the presence of the other person. Your unconscious does not see as separate that part of the person that makes you feel valuable; you see it as part of you. When the person dies or the relationship ends, you don’t feel that you’re losing that person; you feel you’re losing whatever is filling the hole. You experience the loss of a part of yourself. It feels like you’re being cut and something is being taken out of you. You may feel as if you lost your heart, your security, your strength, your will—whatever the person fulfilled for you. When you lose a person close to you, you feel whatever hole that person has filled. It is rare that another person fills all your holes. You have many people and activities in your life, and still, they don’t fill all your holes. There will be some holes left, and this keeps the dissatisfaction going. Our society is set up to teach us that we should get the outside to fill our holes; we should get value, love, strength, and so on from outside. We talk about how wonderful it is to do things for other people, or to fall in love, or have a meaningful profession, as if these activities are what give life meaning. We attribute the meaning to the person or thing we think is responsible for it rather than to Essence, which is really responsible. People try to fill holes in different ways. A woman may think, “Oh, so that’s what I’m doing with my husband! I’m trying to use him to fill my holes. Okay, now I won’t talk to him for the next two weeks.” She is trying to fill her holes by blaming her husband for filling them in the past. It is very clever how we try to fill our holes. It takes a long time for people to understand that trying to fill holes doesn’t work. It is Essence, and only Essence, that can eliminate holes—deficiencies—and it does so from the inside.

david38 4y ago

One of the things I did with my family was disbanding the shared dinner. I’ll make food, anyone can make their own food, and eat whenever. I do restrict unhealthy food for the kids. It’s not a total free for all. By separating food and socializing, I hope to reduce their risk of obesity, which is not uncommon in my family. So far so good.

mjh2539 4y ago
This is a really bad idea. The shared family meal is essential to the proper socialization of children. There has been study after study done. You are making a terrible mistake.

fleddr 4y ago

Seeing this up close with my mother-in-law. Her husband passed away 2 years ago and she's still in the same broken state as the day he died. After 50 years together, the triggers are unavoidable. The town, every place in it, every routine, everything in the house, every action she does...it's all connected to him in an inescapable way. She's functional but it's as if any meaning and purpose was rugged away. She can't grow over it or recover, it runs too deep. 50 years isn't a phase, it's a blended life now brutally ripped apart. She's now effectively waiting for it to be over. Still living independently in an apartment building full of her kind, as us men pass early. Her future now holds waiting to become care-dependent, lose all control and dignity, and then some more waiting. Yes, controversial as it may be, I question the humanity of our "humane" approach. But I digress, and would emphasize to cherish your loved ones and your good years.

OkayPhysicist 4y ago
The only senior living situation I've ever witnessed that actually seemed like an enviable one is the one my paternal grandparents lived in. Place reminded me a lot of my rather nice university living situation, but with significantly larger apartments. Communal spaces including several dining halls with appropriately nice food, activities both actively organized (trips, approachable hikes, various clubs, classes, guest lecturers) and simply available (sports courts, a wood shop, a gym with a pool). Basically, university for those with a lower tolerance for discomfort, with a significantly more busy health clinic. Of course, that all came with the requirement of spending a not-so-small fortune. But it really demonstrates, to me at least, that the dichotomy between "living alone" and "wasting away in a care home that resembles a hospital" is a false one, a product of a cruel economic system more than anything else.