17 ms·

Harvard mandates the bivalent Omicron-specific Covid-19 booster

47 points by sfusato 4y ago

roody15 4y ago
Interesting...meanwhile in Norway they don't recommend anyone aged 12-64 to get a booster unless they have "Severe underlying conditions" Booster doses The Norwegian Institute of Public Health (NIPH) recommends that the following groups should take a booster dose of coronavirus vaccine before the coming autumn/ winter season: adults aged 65 years and above adults aged 18-64 years with underlying risk of a severe disease course adolescents aged 12-17 years with severe underlying conditions pregnant women in their second and third trimesters (https://www.fhi.no/en/id/vaccines/coronavirus-immunisation-programme/coronavirus-vaccine/#booster-doses https://www.fhi.no/en/id/vaccines/coronavirus-immunisation-p...)
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - cinquemb 4y ago
    At the very least, it can shed light on the various interests at play behind governance polices at multiple levels and between organizations...
  - namkt 4y ago
    Because only the US seems to have this guideline. Canada and the EU are not recommending boosters to the general population as pointed out above. It's similar for the flu; afaik, the EU recommends flu shots for ages 60+, not for the general adult population. The US makes a big deal every year on getting flu shots; in corporate media, in shops and outlets, etc. Edit: I stand corrected on the Canadian front; I had old information.
    - 0x486566e7279 4y ago
      Canada is recommending boosters after 5 months from the previous.
    - jlongman 4y ago
      In Quebec, Canada: not at risk, not old and I have a government prompt to get my next free COVID booster sitting in my inbox as well as a government email for the free flu shot. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-vaccination-campaign-fifth-doses-1.6552374 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-vaccination-c... Health is a provincial domain.
  - throwawaylinux 4y ago
    I guess that depends - what do the "trust the experts" crowd do when faced with dueling "experts"? Is the layperson an expert in expert-choosing, or do we need a second layer of experts for that?
    - namkt 4y ago
      This case is simple for me: I'll always follow EU/Canadian healthcare guidelines before US ones by a very long shot, unless there is an immediate problem in my local community where the US guidelines make more sense.
      - itsoktocry 4y ago
        >unless there is an immediate problem in my local community where the US guidelines make more sense. This isn't simple at all then. You are following one set guidelines unless you see "a problem", then you follow another set. What makes you think you can identify the problems?
        namkt 4y ago
        The government publishes infection rates at the county level. The county's health department may also have guidelines that differ slightly from the general nation-wide ones. If there is an uptick of infections in the local community and the boosters are recommended there (though still not necessarily at the macroscopic level), then that seems pretty clear to me. But I still concur with OP. I am not an expert, and I don't know how to choose between experts with differing opinions. What I do know is that I trust certain institutions more than others.
    - 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
      Choose whichever "experts" agree with your own personal beliefs and ridicule the rest.
- petard 4y ago
  Denmark has the same policy, maybe Sweden too?
  - krn1p4n1c 4y ago
    Sweden is still recommending it. https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/publikationer-och-material/publikationsarkiv/r/rekommendation-om-vaccination-mot-covid-19/ https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/publikationer-och-materi... Anecdotally, I have 2 friends who are doctors in the kommun and both said the hospitals are short staffed, beds are filling up and they're seeing much more of the RSV/flu/Covid mix coming to the ER from people that are not in the listed "at risk groups". This matches what my best friends wife, who is a pulmonologist in the US, is saying.
    - dghughes 4y ago
      Same for Canada RSV especially but also influenza. I'm not sure about covid. And beds filling with those is bad since that doesn't even include the usual emergencies heart attack, cancer, car crash, births. The provincial and federal governments here encourage all to get the bivalent vaccine. "National Advisory Committee on Immunization (NACI) continues to recommend that bivalent Omicron-containing mRNA COVID-19 vaccines are the preferred booster products for the authorized age groups. (Strong NACI recommendation)"
    - sfusato 4y ago
      Sweeden seems to be recommending further boosters to 65+. For those under 65, if you fall in certain categories. People aged 18–64 who are medically at-risk due to: - chronic cardiovascular disease, including stroke and high blood pressure (hypertension) - chronic lung disease such as COPD, and brittle asthma - other conditions that impair lung function or the ability to cough and clear mucus (for example, extreme obesity, neuromuscular disorders or multiple disabilities) - chronic liver and kidney failure - diabetes types 1 and 2 - conditions that severely weaken the immune system as a result of illness or treatment - Down’s syndrome - those who are pregnant with pregnancy-related risk factors such as being older than 35, high blood pressure (hypertension), diabetes, a BMI over 30 or other factor following individual assessment. English link: https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/the-public-health-agency-of-sweden/communicable-disease-control/covid-19/vaccination-against-covid-19/order-of-priority-for-covid-19-vaccine/ https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/the-public-health-agency...
- namkt 4y ago
  ECDC/EMA seem to have similar guidelines: https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ecdc-ema-update-recommendations-additional-booster-doses-mrna-covid-19-vaccines https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ecdc-ema-update-recommenda... e.g. "At the moment, there is no clear evidence to support giving a second booster dose to people below 60 years of age who are not at higher risk of severe disease. Neither is there clear evidence to support giving early second boosters to healthcare workers or those working in long-term care homes unless they are at high risk."
- enkid 4y ago
  "don't recommend" isn't the same as "recommend don't." They clearly state other people in those age ranges can get it. This makes the recommendation much closer than what you seem to be suggesting. (I'm not actually sure why you are bringing up Norwegian vaccine guidance, unless it's to suggest getting the booster is a bad idea for everyone else or maybe you are Norweigan).
  - namkt 4y ago
    They don't recommend because they don't see clear evidence in outcomes. See my EMA link below. This doesn't make the recommendation any closer than recommending not to.
    - enkid 4y ago
      No, "not having evidence" isn't the same as having evidence against. They clearly state in that website that it's ok for people outside of there recommendations to get the booster.
      - dahfizz 4y ago
        > At the moment, there is no clear evidence to support giving a second booster dose to people below 60 years of age who are not at higher risk of severe disease.[1] The booster is an approved and safe procedure, but it confers no benefit unless you have risk factors. [1] https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ecdc-ema-update-recommendations-additional-booster-doses-mrna-covid-19-vaccines https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ecdc-ema-update-recommenda...
      - namkt 4y ago
        No, "not having evidence" isn't the same as having evidence against. That is exactly the point that I made above. And where does it so clearly state in the website that second part? And of course it's ok, but that doesn't make it a recommendation.
        KurvaKing 4y ago
- onos 4y ago
  It sounds like they are saying no need to take one now for many groups. Does this mean they suggest taking one later in the year? Annually? Or are they just blanketly saying they don’t recommend getting a booster for these groups from this point on, pending further evidence?
  - sfusato 4y ago
    It's recommended (not mandated) to 65+ cohort and under-65 with certain underlying risk conditions, but they won't stop you from getting it if you so wish. It is also possible for people in the 18-64 year age group without underlying risk conditions can choose to take a new booster dose if they wish.
- mattivc 4y ago
  That is not quite the whole story. They are making it available for anyone in Oslo, at least. [1] I live in Oslo and have an appointment to get a booster tomorrow. I have multiple friends and family members in the healthcare sector, and they are all warning me that we are likely to see a significant spike in the winter. At the same time we are seeing more and more sign that each repeated infection has increased risks. [2] - [1] https://www.oslo.kommune.no/english/coronavirus/corona-vaccine/ https://www.oslo.kommune.no/english/coronavirus/corona-vacci... - [2] https://time.com/6232103/covid-19-reinfections-effects/ https://time.com/6232103/covid-19-reinfections-effects/
  - lbeltrame 4y ago
    That's not what the paper cited by Time says. It is a study in the US veteran population, whose health condition is much poorer than the general population. Secondly, the study is set up to pick up bad outcomes. Third, the people compared are those with 1 and 2 infections after the second infection, rather than seeing the effect of each infection. Fourth, the paper is pre-Omicron. There is also far more than that. The press spun it quite a bit, in a different way. Personally, all my family members and myself have had a contact with SARS-CoV-2 within the past months. It wasn't particularly pleasant, but certainly not a "deadly virus" (prior vaccination helps, but I'm not a person at risk anyway). It will be the first of many. I stopped caring after I got my second dose, and there's no way I will care now.
    - 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
      > It wasn't particularly pleasant, but certainly not a "deadly virus" I know somebody who contracted Malaria and lived. It wasn't particularly pleasant but certainly not a "deadly disease".
      - lbeltrame 4y ago
        Malaria is not an infection by a coronavirus (I do know one person too, FTR, my grandfather during the Albanian campaign in WWII). And it is not age stratified like a SARS-CoV-2 infection. And there's no 95% seroprevalence like with SARS-CoV-2 in most regions that had surges.
koolba 4y ago
- dekken_ 4y ago
  > Remember people, you have to be vaccinated and boosted to prevent the spread of the virus even though being vaccinated or boosted does not actually prevent the spread of the virus. I would say it does prevent some the spread of the virus, but does not completely prevent spread, and any one claiming that it did prevent all spread, should be removed from any position of authority.
  - enkid 4y ago
    Who actually claimed that? I can't remember a single person saying the vaccine prevented 100% of transmission.
    - sfusato 4y ago
      Here's from Australia: https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/yes-they-claimed-the-vaccines-would-prevent-transmission/news-story/a176eb002c29e603fc29ef9fe0b33b18 https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/yes-th... Let me know the country you're interested in and I'll dig it up for you.
    - dekken_ 4y ago
      Joe Biden and Rachel Maddow To name just a few.
      - koolba 4y ago
        Don’t forget Fauci.
        moistly 4y ago
        You were plainly corrected an hour before you reposted this falsehood. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33786969 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33786969 > Fauci's more detailed quote from your link: > “So even though there are breakthrough infections with vaccinated people, almost always the people are asymptomatic and the level of virus is so low it makes it extremely unlikely — not impossible but very, very low likelihood — that they’re going to transmit it” > And my understanding is that, in May of 2021, that was very much true and that studies did show that the vaccine greatly reduced transmissibility. With new variants, though, the original vaccines, while still being protective against severe disease, did a much worse job against preventing mild illness and transmission.
hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
I received my first booster at the end of 2021, and then I got Covid (presumably Omicron) over the summer. I'm certainly not anti-vax, but I'd be annoyed if I were mandated to get the bivalent booster after recently getting Covid. For both my 2nd and 3rd shots my reactions were pretty strong (was down for the count for 48 hours with high fever, headache and chills), so I wouldn't be looking forward to wasting a weekend feeling miserable for exceedingly marginal benefit.
refurb 4y ago
I've had 4 vaccinations and 2 confirmed infections, the most recent one only a couple months ago now. I think I'm good.
W_Knightsbridge 4y ago
Wow, I find this surprising…I wonder if students will challenge it’s merits?
- recuter 4y ago
  Do they typically?
  - FollowingTheDao 4y ago
    Not at Harvard, that's for sure.
mvdwoord 4y ago
Intellectuals, Yet Idiots...
- paulcole 4y ago
  I’ll add this to the shortlist for the Accidental HN Slogan of the Year award.
  - recuter 4y ago
    HN is clearly filled with only one of the two.
    - paulcole 4y ago
      it’s never too early to set a goal for 2023
- TMWNN 4y ago
  >One has to belong to the intelligentsia to believe things like that: no ordinary man could be such a fool. —George Orwell
ClarityJones 4y ago
Well, it’s safe to say I won’t be going to Harvard.
charbonneau3 4y ago
According to a preprint from the Harvard (!) Center for Virology and Vaccine Research [1], there seems to be no difference in BA.5 antibody responses between the old/monovalent and new/bivalent vaccines. Also worth mentioning that BA.5 is not the dominant strain in the US anymore [2]. Mandating the bivalent Omicron-specific COVID-19 booster seems highly questionable. [1] https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.10.24.513619v1.full https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.10.24.513619v1.... [2] https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/25/covid-omicron-bq-variants-dominant-xbb-circulating-at-low-level.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/25/covid-omicron-bq-variants-do...
- throwoutway 4y ago
  First thing I thought was that the administration instituted this based on the news without expert opinion. This couldn’t be more ironic
dj_mc_merlin 4y ago
Why? Do they mandate flu shots too? By this point everyone I know is just living their life as normal and has accepted there's a new seasonal disease. It's not the end of the world, doubly so since students tend to be young obviously. The amount of people with multiple boosters etc. that have gotten COVID I know is also insane. The efficacy cannot be anywhere near what was claimed, or has deteriorated since for sure. I'm not just misunderstand statistics, there's just _too many_ people I know like that for that to be the case. As an anecdotal data point though: I got COVID once a year ago and have been perfectly fine otherwise. No long term condition, nothing. Just 3 days of flu like symptoms, but worse. Without the vaccine.
- ben_w 4y ago
  > The efficacy cannot be anywhere near what was claimed, or has deteriorated since for sure. It has deteriorated as the virus mutated. I had thought this was widely reported, but now I guess not.
- Synaesthesia 4y ago
  Because they're safe and proven effective at reducing death and severity of the disease. Yes your anecdotal data is one thing, this still kills way more people than flu ever did, on a yearly basis. Now it would be interesting if they mandated this vaccine but not N95 mask wearing, that kinda baffles me.
  - typeofhuman 4y ago
    Remember when the message they were safe and proven to prevent you from getting COVID?
    - ben_w 4y ago
      No, I remember the scientists being “it’s amazing, we managed 90% effectiveness at preventing infections, and we would still have gone forward with this if it had only been 50%”.
      - 4y ago
jacamera 4y ago
> Vaccines and boosters are the best defense against severe illness from COVID-19... Is there any evidence that suggests vaccines and boosters are a better defense than maintaining a healthy body mass index, exercising regularly, eating a balanced diet, and spending time outdoors?
- Synaesthesia 4y ago
  Yeah check out Dr Eric Ding on twitter he has a lot of data.
  - lbeltrame 4y ago
    Eric Feigl-Ding is probably the worst reference you can have: he's been spreading alarmist news, spun research in the worst possible way, and even more than that. And he's not an infectious disease epidemiologist (he's an epidemiologist, but in the field of nutrition). There are plenty, more nuanced people you can check on Twitter for more centrist views.
    - lupire 4y ago
      Why is centrist correct? That's Overton arbitrary.
      - lbeltrame 4y ago
        Because while SARS-CoV-2 used to cause a severe disease in people at risk, it was at the same time not the end of times (and didn't warrant the widespread violation of civil liberties throughout the world, mostly ineffective anyway).
- fzeroracer 4y ago
  I don't know, are you saying our ancestors that died of mass disease didn't work out or spend time outdoors? Presumably if what you mentioned helped prevent disease better than vaccines then they clearly should've been protected.
seydor 4y ago
As others said the booster doesnt seem to be much different than previous vaccines, and overall they are all low efficacy against infection. https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/interim-analysis-covid-19-vaccine-effectiveness-healthcare-workers-ecdc-multi https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/interim-anal... https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abq1841 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abq1841 However, there is a worrying stream of research indicating that covid outcomes are worse than we generally think they are, even in mild infections. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jmv.28187 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jmv.28187 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41590-021-01113-x https://www.nature.com/articles/s41590-021-01113-x https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/5/e2022058167/188743/COVID-19-and-Acute-Neurologic-Complications-in https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/5/e20220...? And every reinfection seems to make it worse, so this thing should not be allowed to become 'endemic' https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-02051-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-02051-3 So it seems like other, more effective measures to reduce infections are more likely to keep people healthy rather than trying to reduce the severity of symptoms (which is what vaccines do atm)
- premium_env 4y ago
  "And every reinfection seems to make it worse, so this thing should not be allowed to become 'endemic'" Is there any reliable data on how this works in the vaccinated vs (increasingly scarce) natural immunity populations? i.e Am I more at risk of a severe reinfection third time fighting it off with my own adaptive immune response vs someone fighting it off for the third time with a full set of (5+) boosters?
- nradov 4y ago
  Too late, it's already endemic and can never be eradicated. All of us can expect to be occasionally reinfected (unless we take extreme and unrealistic protective measures). But as for sequelae from reinfection, there's no evidence that SARS-CoV-2 is any worse than other endemic coronaviruses such as HCoV-OC43 which we have been coexisting with for centuries. I mean it could be worse, but no one has ever done a direct apples-to-apples comparison.
jamesredd 4y ago
- ben_w 4y ago
  I have no idea how your mind works, that a vaccine counts as “humiliation”.
sirius87 4y ago
> Individuals are eligible for the booster 2 months after their last booster or 3 months after their most recent COVID infection. Folks trying to avoid the vaccine are simply going to produce recent COVID +ve test reports, right? I wonder if some will actively seek out getting infected by the actual virus (!) to bypass this. EDIT: Worse, imagine seeking out someone already infected, catching the virus from them, then getting COVID -ve reports from all labs because some unique strains aren't caught? That'd be a story.
bluenomatterwho 4y ago
No one ever said the original vax prevented against transmission. This has always been a pandemic of the unvaccinated. The effectiveness of the original is augmented by ongoing boosters, it is not an indication that the original didn't prevent severe illness. The saddest part is that these anti-science people are the most at risk. Myocarditis and other side effects are extremely rare. In 90% cases people will experience no symptoms, but getting the ouchie protects those at most at risk. https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/justin-bieber-ramsay-hunt-covid-vaccine-1367430/ https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/justin-bie... https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/cdc-director-covid-vaccines-cant-prevent-transmission-anymore/ar-AASDndg https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/cdc-director-covid-... https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/yes-they-claimed-the-vaccines-would-prevent-transmission/news-story/a176eb002c29e603fc29ef9fe0b33b18 https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/yes-th...
- nradov 4y ago
  Fortunately college students are at virtually zero risk from COVID-19 (unless they have some severe pre-existing conditions).
- beej71 4y ago
  Isn't prevention of transmission what vaccine effacacy measures?
  - nathanaldensr 4y ago
    Ah, but you see, we live in the age of "words can simply be redefined to mean whatever the elites want them to mean." Stability of language is a relic from the past.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
    Yes, though, You're going to have poor quality arguments if the terms are poorly defined, as above. Does vaccinating against Covid-19 prevent _some_ transmissions - yes, obviously. efficacy measures that percentage. Does vaccinating against Covid-19 prevent _all_ transmissions - obviously not. Watch out for the people conflating these two statements, rhetorically shifting from one the other when it suits them. e.g. the (wrong) statement that "vaccinating against COVID-19 doesn't prevent transmission so it's useless" uses the (true) first sense for the first half, then draws a conclusion as though it's the second sense.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
gadders 4y ago
I can't help thinking that Harvard read the room wrong there. Unvaccinated workers just got re-instated in NY. This looks like a lawsuit waiting to happen for Harvard.
spants 4y ago
Doesnt Harvard receive $m of gifts per annum. Could that influence them??. Such as ... https://www.gatesfoundation.org/about/committed-grants/2019/09/inv002164 https://www.gatesfoundation.org/about/committed-grants/2019/... hmmm https://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/04/business/04pfizer.html https://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/04/business/04pfizer.html
elenaferrantes 4y ago
I wonder when this madness will end.

47 points by sfusato 4y ago

Interesting...meanwhile in Norway they don't recommend anyone aged 12-64 to get a booster unless they have "Severe underlying conditions" Booster doses The Norwegian Institute of Public Health (NIPH) recommends that the following groups should take a booster dose of coronavirus vaccine before the coming autumn/ winter season: adults aged 65 years and above adults aged 18-64 years with underlying risk of a severe disease course adolescents aged 12-17 years with severe underlying conditions pregnant women in their second and third trimesters (https://www.fhi.no/en/id/vaccines/coronavirus-immunisation-programme/coronavirus-vaccine/#booster-doses https://www.fhi.no/en/id/vaccines/coronavirus-immunisation-p...)

2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- cinquemb 4y ago
  At the very least, it can shed light on the various interests at play behind governance polices at multiple levels and between organizations...
- namkt 4y ago
  Because only the US seems to have this guideline. Canada and the EU are not recommending boosters to the general population as pointed out above. It's similar for the flu; afaik, the EU recommends flu shots for ages 60+, not for the general adult population. The US makes a big deal every year on getting flu shots; in corporate media, in shops and outlets, etc. Edit: I stand corrected on the Canadian front; I had old information.
  - 0x486566e7279 4y ago
    Canada is recommending boosters after 5 months from the previous.
  - jlongman 4y ago
    In Quebec, Canada: not at risk, not old and I have a government prompt to get my next free COVID booster sitting in my inbox as well as a government email for the free flu shot. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-vaccination-campaign-fifth-doses-1.6552374 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-vaccination-c... Health is a provincial domain.
- throwawaylinux 4y ago
  I guess that depends - what do the "trust the experts" crowd do when faced with dueling "experts"? Is the layperson an expert in expert-choosing, or do we need a second layer of experts for that?
  - namkt 4y ago
    This case is simple for me: I'll always follow EU/Canadian healthcare guidelines before US ones by a very long shot, unless there is an immediate problem in my local community where the US guidelines make more sense.
    - itsoktocry 4y ago
      >unless there is an immediate problem in my local community where the US guidelines make more sense. This isn't simple at all then. You are following one set guidelines unless you see "a problem", then you follow another set. What makes you think you can identify the problems?
      - namkt 4y ago
        The government publishes infection rates at the county level. The county's health department may also have guidelines that differ slightly from the general nation-wide ones. If there is an uptick of infections in the local community and the boosters are recommended there (though still not necessarily at the macroscopic level), then that seems pretty clear to me. But I still concur with OP. I am not an expert, and I don't know how to choose between experts with differing opinions. What I do know is that I trust certain institutions more than others.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
    Choose whichever "experts" agree with your own personal beliefs and ridicule the rest.
petard 4y ago
Denmark has the same policy, maybe Sweden too?
- krn1p4n1c 4y ago
  Sweden is still recommending it. https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/publikationer-och-material/publikationsarkiv/r/rekommendation-om-vaccination-mot-covid-19/ https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/publikationer-och-materi... Anecdotally, I have 2 friends who are doctors in the kommun and both said the hospitals are short staffed, beds are filling up and they're seeing much more of the RSV/flu/Covid mix coming to the ER from people that are not in the listed "at risk groups". This matches what my best friends wife, who is a pulmonologist in the US, is saying.
  - dghughes 4y ago
    Same for Canada RSV especially but also influenza. I'm not sure about covid. And beds filling with those is bad since that doesn't even include the usual emergencies heart attack, cancer, car crash, births. The provincial and federal governments here encourage all to get the bivalent vaccine. "National Advisory Committee on Immunization (NACI) continues to recommend that bivalent Omicron-containing mRNA COVID-19 vaccines are the preferred booster products for the authorized age groups. (Strong NACI recommendation)"
  - sfusato 4y ago
    Sweeden seems to be recommending further boosters to 65+. For those under 65, if you fall in certain categories. People aged 18–64 who are medically at-risk due to: - chronic cardiovascular disease, including stroke and high blood pressure (hypertension) - chronic lung disease such as COPD, and brittle asthma - other conditions that impair lung function or the ability to cough and clear mucus (for example, extreme obesity, neuromuscular disorders or multiple disabilities) - chronic liver and kidney failure - diabetes types 1 and 2 - conditions that severely weaken the immune system as a result of illness or treatment - Down’s syndrome - those who are pregnant with pregnancy-related risk factors such as being older than 35, high blood pressure (hypertension), diabetes, a BMI over 30 or other factor following individual assessment. English link: https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/the-public-health-agency-of-sweden/communicable-disease-control/covid-19/vaccination-against-covid-19/order-of-priority-for-covid-19-vaccine/ https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/the-public-health-agency...
namkt 4y ago
ECDC/EMA seem to have similar guidelines: https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ecdc-ema-update-recommendations-additional-booster-doses-mrna-covid-19-vaccines https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ecdc-ema-update-recommenda... e.g. "At the moment, there is no clear evidence to support giving a second booster dose to people below 60 years of age who are not at higher risk of severe disease. Neither is there clear evidence to support giving early second boosters to healthcare workers or those working in long-term care homes unless they are at high risk."
enkid 4y ago
"don't recommend" isn't the same as "recommend don't." They clearly state other people in those age ranges can get it. This makes the recommendation much closer than what you seem to be suggesting. (I'm not actually sure why you are bringing up Norwegian vaccine guidance, unless it's to suggest getting the booster is a bad idea for everyone else or maybe you are Norweigan).
- namkt 4y ago
  They don't recommend because they don't see clear evidence in outcomes. See my EMA link below. This doesn't make the recommendation any closer than recommending not to.
  - enkid 4y ago
    No, "not having evidence" isn't the same as having evidence against. They clearly state in that website that it's ok for people outside of there recommendations to get the booster.
    - dahfizz 4y ago
      > At the moment, there is no clear evidence to support giving a second booster dose to people below 60 years of age who are not at higher risk of severe disease.[1] The booster is an approved and safe procedure, but it confers no benefit unless you have risk factors. [1] https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ecdc-ema-update-recommendations-additional-booster-doses-mrna-covid-19-vaccines https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ecdc-ema-update-recommenda...
    - namkt 4y ago
      No, "not having evidence" isn't the same as having evidence against. That is exactly the point that I made above. And where does it so clearly state in the website that second part? And of course it's ok, but that doesn't make it a recommendation.
      - KurvaKing 4y ago
onos 4y ago
It sounds like they are saying no need to take one now for many groups. Does this mean they suggest taking one later in the year? Annually? Or are they just blanketly saying they don’t recommend getting a booster for these groups from this point on, pending further evidence?
- sfusato 4y ago
  It's recommended (not mandated) to 65+ cohort and under-65 with certain underlying risk conditions, but they won't stop you from getting it if you so wish. It is also possible for people in the 18-64 year age group without underlying risk conditions can choose to take a new booster dose if they wish.
mattivc 4y ago
That is not quite the whole story. They are making it available for anyone in Oslo, at least. [1] I live in Oslo and have an appointment to get a booster tomorrow. I have multiple friends and family members in the healthcare sector, and they are all warning me that we are likely to see a significant spike in the winter. At the same time we are seeing more and more sign that each repeated infection has increased risks. [2] - [1] https://www.oslo.kommune.no/english/coronavirus/corona-vaccine/ https://www.oslo.kommune.no/english/coronavirus/corona-vacci... - [2] https://time.com/6232103/covid-19-reinfections-effects/ https://time.com/6232103/covid-19-reinfections-effects/
- lbeltrame 4y ago
  That's not what the paper cited by Time says. It is a study in the US veteran population, whose health condition is much poorer than the general population. Secondly, the study is set up to pick up bad outcomes. Third, the people compared are those with 1 and 2 infections after the second infection, rather than seeing the effect of each infection. Fourth, the paper is pre-Omicron. There is also far more than that. The press spun it quite a bit, in a different way. Personally, all my family members and myself have had a contact with SARS-CoV-2 within the past months. It wasn't particularly pleasant, but certainly not a "deadly virus" (prior vaccination helps, but I'm not a person at risk anyway). It will be the first of many. I stopped caring after I got my second dose, and there's no way I will care now.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
    > It wasn't particularly pleasant, but certainly not a "deadly virus" I know somebody who contracted Malaria and lived. It wasn't particularly pleasant but certainly not a "deadly disease".
    - lbeltrame 4y ago
      Malaria is not an infection by a coronavirus (I do know one person too, FTR, my grandfather during the Albanian campaign in WWII). And it is not age stratified like a SARS-CoV-2 infection. And there's no 95% seroprevalence like with SARS-CoV-2 in most regions that had surges.

koolba 4y ago

dekken_ 4y ago
> Remember people, you have to be vaccinated and boosted to prevent the spread of the virus even though being vaccinated or boosted does not actually prevent the spread of the virus. I would say it does prevent some the spread of the virus, but does not completely prevent spread, and any one claiming that it did prevent all spread, should be removed from any position of authority.
- enkid 4y ago
  Who actually claimed that? I can't remember a single person saying the vaccine prevented 100% of transmission.
  - sfusato 4y ago
    Here's from Australia: https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/yes-they-claimed-the-vaccines-would-prevent-transmission/news-story/a176eb002c29e603fc29ef9fe0b33b18 https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/yes-th... Let me know the country you're interested in and I'll dig it up for you.
  - dekken_ 4y ago
    Joe Biden and Rachel Maddow To name just a few.
    - koolba 4y ago
      Don’t forget Fauci.
      - moistly 4y ago
        You were plainly corrected an hour before you reposted this falsehood. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33786969 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33786969 > Fauci's more detailed quote from your link: > “So even though there are breakthrough infections with vaccinated people, almost always the people are asymptomatic and the level of virus is so low it makes it extremely unlikely — not impossible but very, very low likelihood — that they’re going to transmit it” > And my understanding is that, in May of 2021, that was very much true and that studies did show that the vaccine greatly reduced transmissibility. With new variants, though, the original vaccines, while still being protective against severe disease, did a much worse job against preventing mild illness and transmission.

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago

I received my first booster at the end of 2021, and then I got Covid (presumably Omicron) over the summer. I'm certainly not anti-vax, but I'd be annoyed if I were mandated to get the bivalent booster after recently getting Covid. For both my 2nd and 3rd shots my reactions were pretty strong (was down for the count for 48 hours with high fever, headache and chills), so I wouldn't be looking forward to wasting a weekend feeling miserable for exceedingly marginal benefit.

refurb 4y ago

I've had 4 vaccinations and 2 confirmed infections, the most recent one only a couple months ago now. I think I'm good.

W_Knightsbridge 4y ago

Wow, I find this surprising…I wonder if students will challenge it’s merits?

recuter 4y ago
Do they typically?
- FollowingTheDao 4y ago
  Not at Harvard, that's for sure.

mvdwoord 4y ago

Intellectuals, Yet Idiots...

paulcole 4y ago
I’ll add this to the shortlist for the Accidental HN Slogan of the Year award.
- recuter 4y ago
  HN is clearly filled with only one of the two.
  - paulcole 4y ago
    it’s never too early to set a goal for 2023
TMWNN 4y ago
>One has to belong to the intelligentsia to believe things like that: no ordinary man could be such a fool. —George Orwell

ClarityJones 4y ago

Well, it’s safe to say I won’t be going to Harvard.

charbonneau3 4y ago

According to a preprint from the Harvard (!) Center for Virology and Vaccine Research [1], there seems to be no difference in BA.5 antibody responses between the old/monovalent and new/bivalent vaccines. Also worth mentioning that BA.5 is not the dominant strain in the US anymore [2]. Mandating the bivalent Omicron-specific COVID-19 booster seems highly questionable. [1] https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.10.24.513619v1.full https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.10.24.513619v1.... [2] https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/25/covid-omicron-bq-variants-dominant-xbb-circulating-at-low-level.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/25/covid-omicron-bq-variants-do...

throwoutway 4y ago
First thing I thought was that the administration instituted this based on the news without expert opinion. This couldn’t be more ironic

dj_mc_merlin 4y ago

Why? Do they mandate flu shots too? By this point everyone I know is just living their life as normal and has accepted there's a new seasonal disease. It's not the end of the world, doubly so since students tend to be young obviously. The amount of people with multiple boosters etc. that have gotten COVID I know is also insane. The efficacy cannot be anywhere near what was claimed, or has deteriorated since for sure. I'm not just misunderstand statistics, there's just _too many_ people I know like that for that to be the case. As an anecdotal data point though: I got COVID once a year ago and have been perfectly fine otherwise. No long term condition, nothing. Just 3 days of flu like symptoms, but worse. Without the vaccine.

ben_w 4y ago
> The efficacy cannot be anywhere near what was claimed, or has deteriorated since for sure. It has deteriorated as the virus mutated. I had thought this was widely reported, but now I guess not.
Synaesthesia 4y ago
Because they're safe and proven effective at reducing death and severity of the disease. Yes your anecdotal data is one thing, this still kills way more people than flu ever did, on a yearly basis. Now it would be interesting if they mandated this vaccine but not N95 mask wearing, that kinda baffles me.
- typeofhuman 4y ago
  Remember when the message they were safe and proven to prevent you from getting COVID?
  - ben_w 4y ago
    No, I remember the scientists being “it’s amazing, we managed 90% effectiveness at preventing infections, and we would still have gone forward with this if it had only been 50%”.
    - 4y ago

jacamera 4y ago

> Vaccines and boosters are the best defense against severe illness from COVID-19... Is there any evidence that suggests vaccines and boosters are a better defense than maintaining a healthy body mass index, exercising regularly, eating a balanced diet, and spending time outdoors?

Synaesthesia 4y ago
Yeah check out Dr Eric Ding on twitter he has a lot of data.
- lbeltrame 4y ago
  Eric Feigl-Ding is probably the worst reference you can have: he's been spreading alarmist news, spun research in the worst possible way, and even more than that. And he's not an infectious disease epidemiologist (he's an epidemiologist, but in the field of nutrition). There are plenty, more nuanced people you can check on Twitter for more centrist views.
  - lupire 4y ago
    Why is centrist correct? That's Overton arbitrary.
    - lbeltrame 4y ago
      Because while SARS-CoV-2 used to cause a severe disease in people at risk, it was at the same time not the end of times (and didn't warrant the widespread violation of civil liberties throughout the world, mostly ineffective anyway).
fzeroracer 4y ago
I don't know, are you saying our ancestors that died of mass disease didn't work out or spend time outdoors? Presumably if what you mentioned helped prevent disease better than vaccines then they clearly should've been protected.

seydor 4y ago

As others said the booster doesnt seem to be much different than previous vaccines, and overall they are all low efficacy against infection. https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/interim-analysis-covid-19-vaccine-effectiveness-healthcare-workers-ecdc-multi https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/interim-anal... https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abq1841 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abq1841 However, there is a worrying stream of research indicating that covid outcomes are worse than we generally think they are, even in mild infections. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jmv.28187 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jmv.28187 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41590-021-01113-x https://www.nature.com/articles/s41590-021-01113-x https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/5/e2022058167/188743/COVID-19-and-Acute-Neurologic-Complications-in https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/5/e20220...? And every reinfection seems to make it worse, so this thing should not be allowed to become 'endemic' https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-02051-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-02051-3 So it seems like other, more effective measures to reduce infections are more likely to keep people healthy rather than trying to reduce the severity of symptoms (which is what vaccines do atm)

premium_env 4y ago
"And every reinfection seems to make it worse, so this thing should not be allowed to become 'endemic'" Is there any reliable data on how this works in the vaccinated vs (increasingly scarce) natural immunity populations? i.e Am I more at risk of a severe reinfection third time fighting it off with my own adaptive immune response vs someone fighting it off for the third time with a full set of (5+) boosters?
nradov 4y ago
Too late, it's already endemic and can never be eradicated. All of us can expect to be occasionally reinfected (unless we take extreme and unrealistic protective measures). But as for sequelae from reinfection, there's no evidence that SARS-CoV-2 is any worse than other endemic coronaviruses such as HCoV-OC43 which we have been coexisting with for centuries. I mean it could be worse, but no one has ever done a direct apples-to-apples comparison.

jamesredd 4y ago

ben_w 4y ago
I have no idea how your mind works, that a vaccine counts as “humiliation”.

sirius87 4y ago

> Individuals are eligible for the booster 2 months after their last booster or 3 months after their most recent COVID infection. Folks trying to avoid the vaccine are simply going to produce recent COVID +ve test reports, right? I wonder if some will actively seek out getting infected by the actual virus (!) to bypass this. EDIT: Worse, imagine seeking out someone already infected, catching the virus from them, then getting COVID -ve reports from all labs because some unique strains aren't caught? That'd be a story.

bluenomatterwho 4y ago

No one ever said the original vax prevented against transmission. This has always been a pandemic of the unvaccinated. The effectiveness of the original is augmented by ongoing boosters, it is not an indication that the original didn't prevent severe illness. The saddest part is that these anti-science people are the most at risk. Myocarditis and other side effects are extremely rare. In 90% cases people will experience no symptoms, but getting the ouchie protects those at most at risk. https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/justin-bieber-ramsay-hunt-covid-vaccine-1367430/ https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/justin-bie... https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/cdc-director-covid-vaccines-cant-prevent-transmission-anymore/ar-AASDndg https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/cdc-director-covid-... https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/yes-they-claimed-the-vaccines-would-prevent-transmission/news-story/a176eb002c29e603fc29ef9fe0b33b18 https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/yes-th...

nradov 4y ago
Fortunately college students are at virtually zero risk from COVID-19 (unless they have some severe pre-existing conditions).
beej71 4y ago
Isn't prevention of transmission what vaccine effacacy measures?
- nathanaldensr 4y ago
  Ah, but you see, we live in the age of "words can simply be redefined to mean whatever the elites want them to mean." Stability of language is a relic from the past.
- SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
  Yes, though, You're going to have poor quality arguments if the terms are poorly defined, as above. Does vaccinating against Covid-19 prevent _some_ transmissions - yes, obviously. efficacy measures that percentage. Does vaccinating against Covid-19 prevent _all_ transmissions - obviously not. Watch out for the people conflating these two statements, rhetorically shifting from one the other when it suits them. e.g. the (wrong) statement that "vaccinating against COVID-19 doesn't prevent transmission so it's useless" uses the (true) first sense for the first half, then draws a conclusion as though it's the second sense.

deleted 4y ago

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gadders 4y ago

I can't help thinking that Harvard read the room wrong there. Unvaccinated workers just got re-instated in NY. This looks like a lawsuit waiting to happen for Harvard.

spants 4y ago

Doesnt Harvard receive $m of gifts per annum. Could that influence them??. Such as ... https://www.gatesfoundation.org/about/committed-grants/2019/09/inv002164 https://www.gatesfoundation.org/about/committed-grants/2019/... hmmm https://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/04/business/04pfizer.html https://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/04/business/04pfizer.html

elenaferrantes 4y ago

I wonder when this madness will end.