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I have to admit that when you actually look at the details this is a rather perplexing change. Ditto for reading the comments here. Is Apple being Pro-CCP with

I have to admit that when you actually look at the details this is a rather perplexing change. Ditto for reading the comments here. Is Apple being Pro-CCP with this change? If you open airdrop to everyone, your device can be tracked and identified individually. When this setting is disabled, this becomes far harder. I'm of the opinion that this change is good and actually increases security across the board, including for the people who are using it to exchange information during protests since it disables a vector for tracking devices.

droopyEyelids 4y ago
Also, anyone who rides public transportation in a major metropolitan area has probably experienced perverts airdropping them pornography, and this would fix that issue.
- HDThoreaun 4y ago
  I have not experienced this in my 10 years on the subway.
  - warunsl 4y ago
    I am not sure if you are a man or a woman. Try changing the name of your iPhone to something like "Heather's iPhone" and then turn on AirDrop to "Everyone" on your subway rides. I am sure your experience will be vastly different.
    - dymk 4y ago
      Are you just guessing or do you actually have a reason to believe this?
      - Terretta 4y ago
        Commuting in NYC on Subway. My wife's phone is actually "Heather's iPhone" and it happened any time she accidentally left "Everyone" after e.g. a conference. While she's more amused than offended, she thinks it's a good idea this promiscuous mode will now turn itself back off if she forgets.
        simion314 4y ago
        Do you think your wife could handle one extra option that is not the default where some users could change the 10 minutes to 1 or more hours? Or is that too many options for the average users?
        Terretta 4y ago
        She's got no problem with settings, but it's preferable if it remembers for you to turn it back off. What Apple does for a lot of things (see Focus, or DND) is "until I leave this place" (or event if in a calendared event) and "until tomorrow", those make more sense to me than a particular time frame.
        simion314 4y ago
        So in this case where someone has for some special event to enable this feature they can get a few options. I was asking because Apple and GNOME fanboys claim that the average user is incapable to choose for themselves. But honestly in this case they needed to release it globally, then designers would be happy they removed a feature, Apple could continue selling the idea that they respect human rights and privacy.
        andreyvit 4y ago
        Sure, in any particular case, users could handle multiple options. But if you add multiple options in every similar ambiguous case, your phone suddenly becomes an Android or worse. And those who want that can already use Android; as someone who prefers the minimalistic design of Apple, I sure don't want options to multiply and spread in the UI, even if it occasionally means working around some limitation.
        simion314 4y ago
        I don't believe this, a good designer can handle the task of showing all important options in a intuitive way and hide some of the stuff in an Advanced section.
      - fomine3 4y ago
        AirDrop harassment is a thing and sometimes arrested in Japan, shame. https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20190821/p2a/00m/0na/005000c https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20190821/p2a/00m/0na/00...
- kgermino 4y ago
  Do you ride public transportation in a major metropolitan area? This is not a thing I've ever even heard of happening (I'm sure someone has done it) in the real world
  - keotuk 4y ago
    It happens enough that the UK government want to outlaw it. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/cyberflashing-to-become-a-criminal-offence https://www.gov.uk/government/news/cyberflashing-to-become-a...
    - wfme 4y ago
      > The practice typically involves offenders sending an unsolicited sexual image to people via social media or dating apps, but can also be over data sharing services such as Bluetooth and Airdrop. I'd wager the majority of cases they refer to being via social media and dating apps given the language.
sfusato 4y ago
Why is it being rolled out in China first?
- MBCook 4y ago
  Because China told them to after protests last month or so. This did not just happen in the last two days. This is arguably a good setting too, as there are plenty of stories of people in other parts of the world who AirDrop lewd/violent/disgusting pictures to anyone around with their phone set to “allow anyone”. It’s happened on planes, for example. But this is a tool people figured out they could use for a different purpose: spreading info during protests. So now it’s caught up in politics. For all the “evil Apple”, they’ve been better than others. But they are a total hostage. The vast majority of the stuff is in China. Piss off the CCP and the company practically dies overnight. Yes, they should have fixed that long ago. But here we are.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
lordofgibbons 4y ago
>If you open airdrop to everyone, your device can be tracked and identified individually. That can already be done using cell towers (especially with 5G) and GPS enabled state-supervised apps like WeChat, etc. So that's not a good reason.
- dymk 4y ago
  If only iPhones had a way to turn off its cellular radio, some kind of “airplane mode” or something
  - bitwzrd 4y ago
    Why should we possibly believe that any software switches actually fully disable anything? If there isn't a hardware killswitch, there is no reasonable expectation that the cellular radio is actually disabled... There are trustworthy sources claiming that the NSA still tracks devices that are completely "powered off". No reason to believe that the CCP doesn't have that ability as well.
    - gorkish 4y ago
      I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm just pointing out that there is a tangible benefit to end-user privacy that is enabled by this change inasmuch as the features are advertised to work and inasmuch as I personally have investigated how they operate. Certainly the CCP has other means to surveil their dissidents, and at a certain level of paranoia, leaving the cell phone behind might be a good idea. However that is a completely separate topic that does not deserve to be convoluted with this discussion. It seems in the fervor to lambast Apple, very few people seem to be fully considering that the original feature is extremely problematic. People will often enable 'Everyone' when they need to exchange a file with someone, but forget to change it back. If you need any more evidence that this is so, I invite you to go into a public space and scan for Airdrop targets.
    - swader999 4y ago
      It's pretty easy to test this with a meter. I don't get any emf with my Samsung or my MacBook when I'm in those modes.
kelnos 4y ago
> Is Apple being Pro-CCP with this change? I don't think Apple is Pro-CCP, Apple is Pro-Being-Able-To-Do-Business-In-China, which means doing whatever the CCP tells you to do, even if it means compromising your ethics.
- dkokelley 4y ago
  At the risk of being an Apple apologist, their manufacturing is effectively held hostage by China. Yes Apple is taking the "make more profit" choice, but the alternative is pretty devastating to the company. Long term, Apple needs to diversify their manufacturing footprint. (Note that I still think Apple would adhere to the CCP's requests/laws just to be able to sell in China. China would ban Apple products if they believed Apple was not cooperative.)
  - bb88 4y ago
    All tech companies that rely upon China for manufacturing are in this situation -- not just Apple.
    - dkokelley 4y ago
      Agreed to a point. Smaller companies can more easily get enough manufacturing capacity elsewhere, but larger companies are trapped by finding that capacity, technical ability, and hitting the price points they need at scale.
  - fmajid 4y ago
    They’re already diversifying their manufacturing to Vietnam, India and Malaysia because random draconian zero-Covid lockdowns have been very disruptive to their supply chain, not out of any high principle. The protesters should use these little gizmos instead: https://www.sandisk.com/goto/connect https://www.sandisk.com/goto/connect Basically micro web servers with MicroSD cards for storage, a battery and WiFi AP with 2h battery life and in the form factor of a chunky flash drive. You can power them off a power bank for more airtime.
- hellfish 4y ago

droopyEyelids 4y ago

Also, anyone who rides public transportation in a major metropolitan area has probably experienced perverts airdropping them pornography, and this would fix that issue.

HDThoreaun 4y ago
I have not experienced this in my 10 years on the subway.
- warunsl 4y ago
  I am not sure if you are a man or a woman. Try changing the name of your iPhone to something like "Heather's iPhone" and then turn on AirDrop to "Everyone" on your subway rides. I am sure your experience will be vastly different.
  - dymk 4y ago
    Are you just guessing or do you actually have a reason to believe this?
    - Terretta 4y ago
      Commuting in NYC on Subway. My wife's phone is actually "Heather's iPhone" and it happened any time she accidentally left "Everyone" after e.g. a conference. While she's more amused than offended, she thinks it's a good idea this promiscuous mode will now turn itself back off if she forgets.
      - simion314 4y ago
        Do you think your wife could handle one extra option that is not the default where some users could change the 10 minutes to 1 or more hours? Or is that too many options for the average users?
        Terretta 4y ago
        She's got no problem with settings, but it's preferable if it remembers for you to turn it back off. What Apple does for a lot of things (see Focus, or DND) is "until I leave this place" (or event if in a calendared event) and "until tomorrow", those make more sense to me than a particular time frame.
        simion314 4y ago
        So in this case where someone has for some special event to enable this feature they can get a few options. I was asking because Apple and GNOME fanboys claim that the average user is incapable to choose for themselves. But honestly in this case they needed to release it globally, then designers would be happy they removed a feature, Apple could continue selling the idea that they respect human rights and privacy.
        andreyvit 4y ago
        Sure, in any particular case, users could handle multiple options. But if you add multiple options in every similar ambiguous case, your phone suddenly becomes an Android or worse. And those who want that can already use Android; as someone who prefers the minimalistic design of Apple, I sure don't want options to multiply and spread in the UI, even if it occasionally means working around some limitation.
        simion314 4y ago
        I don't believe this, a good designer can handle the task of showing all important options in a intuitive way and hide some of the stuff in an Advanced section.
    - fomine3 4y ago
      AirDrop harassment is a thing and sometimes arrested in Japan, shame. https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20190821/p2a/00m/0na/005000c https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20190821/p2a/00m/0na/00...
kgermino 4y ago
Do you ride public transportation in a major metropolitan area? This is not a thing I've ever even heard of happening (I'm sure someone has done it) in the real world
- keotuk 4y ago
  It happens enough that the UK government want to outlaw it. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/cyberflashing-to-become-a-criminal-offence https://www.gov.uk/government/news/cyberflashing-to-become-a...
  - wfme 4y ago
    > The practice typically involves offenders sending an unsolicited sexual image to people via social media or dating apps, but can also be over data sharing services such as Bluetooth and Airdrop. I'd wager the majority of cases they refer to being via social media and dating apps given the language.

sfusato 4y ago

Why is it being rolled out in China first?

MBCook 4y ago
Because China told them to after protests last month or so. This did not just happen in the last two days. This is arguably a good setting too, as there are plenty of stories of people in other parts of the world who AirDrop lewd/violent/disgusting pictures to anyone around with their phone set to “allow anyone”. It’s happened on planes, for example. But this is a tool people figured out they could use for a different purpose: spreading info during protests. So now it’s caught up in politics. For all the “evil Apple”, they’ve been better than others. But they are a total hostage. The vast majority of the stuff is in China. Piss off the CCP and the company practically dies overnight. Yes, they should have fixed that long ago. But here we are.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

lordofgibbons 4y ago

>If you open airdrop to everyone, your device can be tracked and identified individually. That can already be done using cell towers (especially with 5G) and GPS enabled state-supervised apps like WeChat, etc. So that's not a good reason.

dymk 4y ago
If only iPhones had a way to turn off its cellular radio, some kind of “airplane mode” or something
- bitwzrd 4y ago
  Why should we possibly believe that any software switches actually fully disable anything? If there isn't a hardware killswitch, there is no reasonable expectation that the cellular radio is actually disabled... There are trustworthy sources claiming that the NSA still tracks devices that are completely "powered off". No reason to believe that the CCP doesn't have that ability as well.
  - gorkish 4y ago
    I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm just pointing out that there is a tangible benefit to end-user privacy that is enabled by this change inasmuch as the features are advertised to work and inasmuch as I personally have investigated how they operate. Certainly the CCP has other means to surveil their dissidents, and at a certain level of paranoia, leaving the cell phone behind might be a good idea. However that is a completely separate topic that does not deserve to be convoluted with this discussion. It seems in the fervor to lambast Apple, very few people seem to be fully considering that the original feature is extremely problematic. People will often enable 'Everyone' when they need to exchange a file with someone, but forget to change it back. If you need any more evidence that this is so, I invite you to go into a public space and scan for Airdrop targets.
  - swader999 4y ago
    It's pretty easy to test this with a meter. I don't get any emf with my Samsung or my MacBook when I'm in those modes.

kelnos 4y ago

> Is Apple being Pro-CCP with this change? I don't think Apple is Pro-CCP, Apple is Pro-Being-Able-To-Do-Business-In-China, which means doing whatever the CCP tells you to do, even if it means compromising your ethics.

dkokelley 4y ago
At the risk of being an Apple apologist, their manufacturing is effectively held hostage by China. Yes Apple is taking the "make more profit" choice, but the alternative is pretty devastating to the company. Long term, Apple needs to diversify their manufacturing footprint. (Note that I still think Apple would adhere to the CCP's requests/laws just to be able to sell in China. China would ban Apple products if they believed Apple was not cooperative.)
- bb88 4y ago
  All tech companies that rely upon China for manufacturing are in this situation -- not just Apple.
  - dkokelley 4y ago
    Agreed to a point. Smaller companies can more easily get enough manufacturing capacity elsewhere, but larger companies are trapped by finding that capacity, technical ability, and hitting the price points they need at scale.
- fmajid 4y ago
  They’re already diversifying their manufacturing to Vietnam, India and Malaysia because random draconian zero-Covid lockdowns have been very disruptive to their supply chain, not out of any high principle. The protesters should use these little gizmos instead: https://www.sandisk.com/goto/connect https://www.sandisk.com/goto/connect Basically micro web servers with MicroSD cards for storage, a battery and WiFi AP with 2h battery life and in the form factor of a chunky flash drive. You can power them off a power bank for more airtime.
hellfish 4y ago