5 ms·

> There's so much DEMAND for friends, that people will gobble up your supply if you offer it (so long as you're not a total monster) This really doesn't ring t

by rchaud 4y ago

> There's so much DEMAND for friends, that people will gobble up your supply if you offer it (so long as you're not a total monster) This really doesn't ring true outside of school/university years. Back then, you are constantly meeting new people, and seeing them regularly in class and on campus. People that age don't have a "max occupancy" number when it comes to making friends. As an adult in the working world, the opposite is true. Outside of that uni environment, a new person is going to have to knock your socks off with their personality, for you to even consider meeting up with them again. Most people cannot make a first impression that good. Outside of school/uni, people are busy with daily life, and far less likely to chat with strangers. Friendship groups begin to quickly narrow around this time as well, as people get married, go to professional schooling of some kind, and start hanging out mostly with people that are very similar to them.

crummy 4y ago
Isn't there supposed to be an epidemic of loneliness amongst many adults?
- whatshisface 4y ago
  It sounds like a paradox that there would be simultaneous epidemics of loneliness and and standoffishness but they cause each other. In one direction the cause is obvious, in the other lack of socialization causes people's "calibration" to go off as their learned tolerance to unexpected things fades. Real social interactions involve a lot of imperfection and what you sometimes see is that without being desensitized, lonely people's standards can be unreachable. (Other commenters have alluded to this being a result of hyper stimulation on TikTok but it predates it.)
- rchaud 4y ago
  Yes, because adults in general have less time to spend with friends than someone who's younger, more mobile (live downtown vs the suburbs) and has fewer responsibilities. But loneliness is up among all generations, including those who are in the right time and right place (post-secondary). Many reasons for this as well, including the impact of internet and social media. People are less willing to give others a chance because Tinder/Tiktok/IG has trained them to think that another more interesting experience could be right around the corner.
golemiprague 4y ago
I don't know, I have made friends well into my adult life, including after having kids. Granted it is not in the same frequency as in the uni days but still during the years I have found some. Mostly people I have bumped into at work but were not directly above or below me or via other friends who introduced me to their friends. I am not an extrovert or too introvert and I don't know why it seems like everyone here must declare themselves as if they are in the extreme of this bell curve, probably they are somewhere in the middle, like the rest of us.
- krumpet 4y ago
  I think this is highly dependent on luck. If you're friendly and happen to live near other, outgoing, friendly families, then the odds of befriending them are higher. It also helps to have a friendly spouse (it helps a LOT).
  - bgroat 4y ago
    Luck is an interesting element. My best friend for 20 years (we've since fallen out of touch), was someone I met in kindergarten? How did we become friends? My surname starts with a "G" and his starts with an "H" so we were seated next to each other
    - sitkack 4y ago
      I met someone at Strangeloop because they were a doppelganger of an acquaintance from some years previously. I now realize that I had this attitude like we already friends because of that unrealized similarity. Attitude and any alignment in interests is more than enough, or alphabetical. :)
      - bgroat 4y ago
        "Uncommon Commonalities" are wild. There was a girl who I couldn't stand in high school... but we bumped into each other in a train station on the opposite side of the country... and hung out all afternoon. Just being from the same small town made an immediate (but brief) connection
bgroat 4y ago
I can't say that you're wrong, because everyone's environment/experience is different. But this is so outside my perception of the world and that of everyone I've ever spoken to (across a swatch of demographics across North America and Europe). Friendship groups narrow because it isn't EASY anymore (you're not all on campus). Nobody actually desires for them to narrow. If you can make it *easy* for the other person (by handling the approach, scheduling, etc). They'll be as willing as in uni days
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  >If you can make it easy* for the other person (by handling the approach, scheduling, etc). They'll be as willing as in uni days* That's definitely not true, or at least not my experience. Everyone I ask out to join me for various activities, has an excuse, usually busy or other plans with someone else, and they never follow up for a rain check. People over 30, even single/child-free, seem to be very busy with their established routines, hobbies, and narrow circle of long term friends, that they just aren't open to new people anymore or at least making time for them, no matter how cool or sociable you are. Seems like time is the main cuprit, or lack thereof. If you already have things to do and enough friends that occupy all your free time, or barley have enough time to meet the friends you already have, then when are you gonna meet new people? Making friends is a two way street. You could be the coolest, funniest, most sociable guy ever, but if everyone you meet already had enough friends or feels they don't need you in their life then .... The only shot to make this easy for you is meeting other loners.
  - Consultant32452 4y ago
    In my experience, and everyone's is different, the key is to find a common activity/interest. I do consulting work, so I often change teams and walk in knowing no one. I've been complimented multiple times about noticeably increasing team cohesion. You know what I do? I start regular/consistent activities with the team. "Tuesday is my go out to lunch day, everyone is invited." I mean I literally just stand up in the middle of work and say that loud enough for surrounding people to hear. Sometimes I go alone, especially at first. But eventually people trickle in and then it doesn't take long before a group of 4-5 people are going to lunch every Tuesday. You can similarly start a regular happy hour if one is not already going on. People join who aren't even on my team, because they heard me invite everyone. Outside of work, the path is to join a hobby. Find a softball league or something like that. This has built in consistent interaction and fosters expansion into happy hours after the games or other activities. If there's anyone in your circle of acquaintances that has a birthday, tell them you'd really like to buy them a beer to celebrate their birthday. Ask open ended, "Hey, is there a day this week you're free? I owe you a birthday beer." Most adults no longer get real celebrations for their birthdays and will appreciate it if there's not some other social hurdle (actually busy, afraid you are trying to date them, etc). Some of those social hurdles (like afraid it's a date) can be overcome by suggesting it's a group thing. To use the work example again, "Hey team, it's Susan's birthday this week. I think it would be cool if we took her to lunch or something. Anyone else in?" To put context on this, I am introverted and autistic (very low social needs). I do these behaviors explicitly for outcome oriented purposes (bring people joy, grow career).
giantg2 4y ago
"This really doesn't ring true outside of school/university years." I agree. At this point in life, I just want people to leave me alone. It seems like there isn't any time to make friends anyways.
- tasuki 4y ago
  - rchaud 4y ago
    > it's just a matter of priorities. by that metric, most people's lives are nothing but failure. Everybody has a human need for companionship and to feel like they belong. That's hard to accomplish when juxtaposed against an economic system pushes people to work first and live second. BTW Bezos is about as poor an example as you could pick. He absolutely has more free time than I do, unless by some miracle he cooks, cleans and drives himself everywhere. "Free time" here means he can choose the exact parameters of how to spend his day and not worry about paying the mortgage or tuition ̶o̶r̶ ̶r̶i̶s̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶m̶a̶r̶r̶i̶a̶g̶e̶.
    - twelve40 4y ago
      this actually sounds to me in agreement 1. yes, the priorities might be skewed 2. you just demonstrated that even Bezos is definitely not free from obligations and time commitments, such as his marriage, running a huge company, etc. The fact that he can afford to do anything in the world money-wise does not relieve even him from having to make "free time" to spend on family or else it will fail, etc. So, totally a matter of priorities.
      - TylerE 4y ago
        What he’s saying is that money can buy time. Like, imagine having a personal shopper who buys you stylish, perfectly fitting new clothes regularly, that just show up in your closet like magic.
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> a new person is going to have to knock your socks off with their personality, for you to even consider meeting up with them again I’ve had serendipitous conversations which were just fun. Nothing knocking my socks off. Just good conversation; we share numbers and I try to remember when we’re in the same area again. > people are busy with daily life, and far less likely to chat with strangers Couldn’t disagree more. Not everyone wants to chat all the time. But I’ve had loads of interesting conversations with strangers at bars and restaurants, coffee shop lines, airport terminals, sports-gear shops and of course holiday destinations.
- bgroat 4y ago
  This is a big part of my "So hard it's easy" philosophy. Most people are so bad at conversation (waiting patiently for their turn to tell a completely unrelated anecdote), that just being able to have an organic chat is pretty "knock your socks off behavior"
sneeze-slayer 4y ago
Do you mind sharing your nationality? This rings true of the opinions of many people I know in Europe but I would be very surprised if any Americans felt this way. Genuinely curious.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
dmichulke 4y ago
> This really doesn't ring true outside of school/university years I'll happily state the contrary: Supply easily saturates demand at the university but after that most are on their own. So, demand stays the same but supply drops off (because you have much less available time). So this is where you can shine. > knock your socks off with their personality, for you to even consider meeting up with them again No, I talk to people while waiting for the train or during my commute. I don't ask them to see them again, I just see them again because they have the same commute as me. Always say hi but never give them the feeling that you expect them to spend time talking with you. This is also why it's easier to talk while waiting for the train, it's a limited time and they feel easier knowing that you won't be potentially annoying them during the whole train ride. From there on it's easier, you slowly get to know a handful of acquaintances and you can easily "escalate" with the people you like.
- legerdemain 4y ago
  > This is also why it's easier to talk while waiting for the train, > it's a limited time and they feel easier knowing that you won't > be potentially annoying them during the whole train ride. Wait, how does that work? If you're waiting at the same stop, you'll board the same train, right? Unless they wait for the next one to avoid you? Wouldn't they be concerned that you'll board together and continue making conversation for the entire commute?
  - TuringTest 4y ago
    The bus arriving is a natural break point for ending the conversation, I'd say. There's no social obligation to keep talking once you are both are busy boarding the bus and finding a seat, so it's a good time to say farewell.
m_fayer 4y ago
You’re right but you’re also wrong. I know of social circles in middle age that have largely locked down. People have their routines and responsibilities and loved ones, and that’s that. They make little effort to clear space for new relationships. I also know other circles, also middle aged, where people have made it a priority to not do that. There is still flux and change in these circles. Its a choice, basically. Not an easy one and there is no right or wrong here, but it’s not inevitable that midlife is characterised by social lockdown.
- 2devnull 4y ago
  Location matters. In Silicon Valley, many people you meet are not locals, they come and they go. Like the tide. Other places this is different, like small towns where everyone knows everyone else. Some places people are more defensive, less friendly. Being an extrovert in a city where everyone is a visitor doesn’t help form lasting friendships and a faux pas in a small town can become a scarlet letter that follows you forever. As others have noted, age matters. That’s well documented in the research from what I can tell but it’s also just a simple consequence of having marriages, raising children, etc… Coincidently that’s another set of life outcomes that are very impacted by place. Silicon Valley is known for that. “Man Jose” is not a great place to start a family, and career driven men from widely diverse ethnic and socio-cultural groups don’t form much of a community.
  - legerdemain 4y ago
    "Man Jose" is characterized by endless sprawl of modest single-family housing and is full of ethnic communities (South Asian, Chinese, Vietnamese) and families raising young children. It has more small neighborhood churches than almost anywhere else I have lived. Describing San Jose as a land of antisocial young men strikes me as frankly bizarre.

by rchaud 4y ago

crummy 4y ago

Isn't there supposed to be an epidemic of loneliness amongst many adults?

whatshisface 4y ago
It sounds like a paradox that there would be simultaneous epidemics of loneliness and and standoffishness but they cause each other. In one direction the cause is obvious, in the other lack of socialization causes people's "calibration" to go off as their learned tolerance to unexpected things fades. Real social interactions involve a lot of imperfection and what you sometimes see is that without being desensitized, lonely people's standards can be unreachable. (Other commenters have alluded to this being a result of hyper stimulation on TikTok but it predates it.)
rchaud 4y ago
Yes, because adults in general have less time to spend with friends than someone who's younger, more mobile (live downtown vs the suburbs) and has fewer responsibilities. But loneliness is up among all generations, including those who are in the right time and right place (post-secondary). Many reasons for this as well, including the impact of internet and social media. People are less willing to give others a chance because Tinder/Tiktok/IG has trained them to think that another more interesting experience could be right around the corner.

golemiprague 4y ago

I don't know, I have made friends well into my adult life, including after having kids. Granted it is not in the same frequency as in the uni days but still during the years I have found some. Mostly people I have bumped into at work but were not directly above or below me or via other friends who introduced me to their friends. I am not an extrovert or too introvert and I don't know why it seems like everyone here must declare themselves as if they are in the extreme of this bell curve, probably they are somewhere in the middle, like the rest of us.

krumpet 4y ago
I think this is highly dependent on luck. If you're friendly and happen to live near other, outgoing, friendly families, then the odds of befriending them are higher. It also helps to have a friendly spouse (it helps a LOT).
- bgroat 4y ago
  Luck is an interesting element. My best friend for 20 years (we've since fallen out of touch), was someone I met in kindergarten? How did we become friends? My surname starts with a "G" and his starts with an "H" so we were seated next to each other
  - sitkack 4y ago
    I met someone at Strangeloop because they were a doppelganger of an acquaintance from some years previously. I now realize that I had this attitude like we already friends because of that unrealized similarity. Attitude and any alignment in interests is more than enough, or alphabetical. :)
    - bgroat 4y ago
      "Uncommon Commonalities" are wild. There was a girl who I couldn't stand in high school... but we bumped into each other in a train station on the opposite side of the country... and hung out all afternoon. Just being from the same small town made an immediate (but brief) connection

bgroat 4y ago

I can't say that you're wrong, because everyone's environment/experience is different. But this is so outside my perception of the world and that of everyone I've ever spoken to (across a swatch of demographics across North America and Europe). Friendship groups narrow because it isn't EASY anymore (you're not all on campus). Nobody actually desires for them to narrow. If you can make it *easy* for the other person (by handling the approach, scheduling, etc). They'll be as willing as in uni days

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
>If you can make it easy* for the other person (by handling the approach, scheduling, etc). They'll be as willing as in uni days* That's definitely not true, or at least not my experience. Everyone I ask out to join me for various activities, has an excuse, usually busy or other plans with someone else, and they never follow up for a rain check. People over 30, even single/child-free, seem to be very busy with their established routines, hobbies, and narrow circle of long term friends, that they just aren't open to new people anymore or at least making time for them, no matter how cool or sociable you are. Seems like time is the main cuprit, or lack thereof. If you already have things to do and enough friends that occupy all your free time, or barley have enough time to meet the friends you already have, then when are you gonna meet new people? Making friends is a two way street. You could be the coolest, funniest, most sociable guy ever, but if everyone you meet already had enough friends or feels they don't need you in their life then .... The only shot to make this easy for you is meeting other loners.
- Consultant32452 4y ago
  In my experience, and everyone's is different, the key is to find a common activity/interest. I do consulting work, so I often change teams and walk in knowing no one. I've been complimented multiple times about noticeably increasing team cohesion. You know what I do? I start regular/consistent activities with the team. "Tuesday is my go out to lunch day, everyone is invited." I mean I literally just stand up in the middle of work and say that loud enough for surrounding people to hear. Sometimes I go alone, especially at first. But eventually people trickle in and then it doesn't take long before a group of 4-5 people are going to lunch every Tuesday. You can similarly start a regular happy hour if one is not already going on. People join who aren't even on my team, because they heard me invite everyone. Outside of work, the path is to join a hobby. Find a softball league or something like that. This has built in consistent interaction and fosters expansion into happy hours after the games or other activities. If there's anyone in your circle of acquaintances that has a birthday, tell them you'd really like to buy them a beer to celebrate their birthday. Ask open ended, "Hey, is there a day this week you're free? I owe you a birthday beer." Most adults no longer get real celebrations for their birthdays and will appreciate it if there's not some other social hurdle (actually busy, afraid you are trying to date them, etc). Some of those social hurdles (like afraid it's a date) can be overcome by suggesting it's a group thing. To use the work example again, "Hey team, it's Susan's birthday this week. I think it would be cool if we took her to lunch or something. Anyone else in?" To put context on this, I am introverted and autistic (very low social needs). I do these behaviors explicitly for outcome oriented purposes (bring people joy, grow career).

giantg2 4y ago

"This really doesn't ring true outside of school/university years." I agree. At this point in life, I just want people to leave me alone. It seems like there isn't any time to make friends anyways.

tasuki 4y ago
- rchaud 4y ago
  > it's just a matter of priorities. by that metric, most people's lives are nothing but failure. Everybody has a human need for companionship and to feel like they belong. That's hard to accomplish when juxtaposed against an economic system pushes people to work first and live second. BTW Bezos is about as poor an example as you could pick. He absolutely has more free time than I do, unless by some miracle he cooks, cleans and drives himself everywhere. "Free time" here means he can choose the exact parameters of how to spend his day and not worry about paying the mortgage or tuition ̶o̶r̶ ̶r̶i̶s̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶m̶a̶r̶r̶i̶a̶g̶e̶.
  - twelve40 4y ago
    this actually sounds to me in agreement 1. yes, the priorities might be skewed 2. you just demonstrated that even Bezos is definitely not free from obligations and time commitments, such as his marriage, running a huge company, etc. The fact that he can afford to do anything in the world money-wise does not relieve even him from having to make "free time" to spend on family or else it will fail, etc. So, totally a matter of priorities.
    - TylerE 4y ago
      What he’s saying is that money can buy time. Like, imagine having a personal shopper who buys you stylish, perfectly fitting new clothes regularly, that just show up in your closet like magic.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> a new person is going to have to knock your socks off with their personality, for you to even consider meeting up with them again I’ve had serendipitous conversations which were just fun. Nothing knocking my socks off. Just good conversation; we share numbers and I try to remember when we’re in the same area again. > people are busy with daily life, and far less likely to chat with strangers Couldn’t disagree more. Not everyone wants to chat all the time. But I’ve had loads of interesting conversations with strangers at bars and restaurants, coffee shop lines, airport terminals, sports-gear shops and of course holiday destinations.

bgroat 4y ago
This is a big part of my "So hard it's easy" philosophy. Most people are so bad at conversation (waiting patiently for their turn to tell a completely unrelated anecdote), that just being able to have an organic chat is pretty "knock your socks off behavior"

sneeze-slayer 4y ago

Do you mind sharing your nationality? This rings true of the opinions of many people I know in Europe but I would be very surprised if any Americans felt this way. Genuinely curious.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

dmichulke 4y ago

> This really doesn't ring true outside of school/university years I'll happily state the contrary: Supply easily saturates demand at the university but after that most are on their own. So, demand stays the same but supply drops off (because you have much less available time). So this is where you can shine. > knock your socks off with their personality, for you to even consider meeting up with them again No, I talk to people while waiting for the train or during my commute. I don't ask them to see them again, I just see them again because they have the same commute as me. Always say hi but never give them the feeling that you expect them to spend time talking with you. This is also why it's easier to talk while waiting for the train, it's a limited time and they feel easier knowing that you won't be potentially annoying them during the whole train ride. From there on it's easier, you slowly get to know a handful of acquaintances and you can easily "escalate" with the people you like.

legerdemain 4y ago
> This is also why it's easier to talk while waiting for the train, > it's a limited time and they feel easier knowing that you won't > be potentially annoying them during the whole train ride. Wait, how does that work? If you're waiting at the same stop, you'll board the same train, right? Unless they wait for the next one to avoid you? Wouldn't they be concerned that you'll board together and continue making conversation for the entire commute?
- TuringTest 4y ago
  The bus arriving is a natural break point for ending the conversation, I'd say. There's no social obligation to keep talking once you are both are busy boarding the bus and finding a seat, so it's a good time to say farewell.

m_fayer 4y ago

You’re right but you’re also wrong. I know of social circles in middle age that have largely locked down. People have their routines and responsibilities and loved ones, and that’s that. They make little effort to clear space for new relationships. I also know other circles, also middle aged, where people have made it a priority to not do that. There is still flux and change in these circles. Its a choice, basically. Not an easy one and there is no right or wrong here, but it’s not inevitable that midlife is characterised by social lockdown.

2devnull 4y ago
Location matters. In Silicon Valley, many people you meet are not locals, they come and they go. Like the tide. Other places this is different, like small towns where everyone knows everyone else. Some places people are more defensive, less friendly. Being an extrovert in a city where everyone is a visitor doesn’t help form lasting friendships and a faux pas in a small town can become a scarlet letter that follows you forever. As others have noted, age matters. That’s well documented in the research from what I can tell but it’s also just a simple consequence of having marriages, raising children, etc… Coincidently that’s another set of life outcomes that are very impacted by place. Silicon Valley is known for that. “Man Jose” is not a great place to start a family, and career driven men from widely diverse ethnic and socio-cultural groups don’t form much of a community.
- legerdemain 4y ago
  "Man Jose" is characterized by endless sprawl of modest single-family housing and is full of ethnic communities (South Asian, Chinese, Vietnamese) and families raising young children. It has more small neighborhood churches than almost anywhere else I have lived. Describing San Jose as a land of antisocial young men strikes me as frankly bizarre.