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There is an emulator for running mainframe code called Hercules. It comes with no software, so you'll need to acquire compilers & database apps separately. The

There is an emulator for running mainframe code called Hercules. It comes with no software, so you'll need to acquire compilers & database apps separately. The equivalent from IBM is called "IBM Z Development and Test Environment" and the license for that costs $5,540 per user per year. There was (maybe still is?) a "learners edition" that you have to contact them to "see if you qualify" and it is a far more reasonable $120/year (there are no links on IBM Marketplace to even try to order it). This includes several compilers and 3 databases: CICS, DB2 & IMS. IBM has a very different model for supporting developers than Microsoft does with MSDN. Links: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hercules_(emulator) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hercules_(emulator) http://www.hercules-390.org/ http://www.hercules-390.org/ https://www.ibm.com/products/z-development-test-environment/pricing https://www.ibm.com/products/z-development-test-environment/... https://ibm.github.io/zdt-learners-edition-about/ https://ibm.github.io/zdt-learners-edition-about/ https://old.reddit.com/r/mainframe/ https://old.reddit.com/r/mainframe/ Ballmer being excited: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNy2zBG79zU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNy2zBG79zU

krylon 4y ago
It always struck me as odd that one the one hand, finding people with experience in this field seem to be very hard to find, but on the other hand, IBM makes it so hard for people to learn this stuff. I wonder if it didn't pay off for them in the long run to just put up one beefy machine on the Internet, offer free accounts to people or just a free hobbyist license like you can get for VMS. Are they paranoid about customers cheating to hitch a free ride?
- bombcar 4y ago
  Because it's relatively easy to hire someone with relevant experience in other fields and give them the internal tooling and training from IBM. After all, IBM wants you to pay IBM to do this stuff for you. It's not like Bob from IT is going to play around with mainframe coding for a year or so and convince the boss to buy one.
  - ethbr0 4y ago
    This. The mainframe model seems bizarre to people experienced in modern programming, because they can't imagine all the things that were different. So imagine you're a company selling low volumes (by modern standards) of exquisite computing hardware to highly demanding customers, in a world where... (1) there is no Internet, (2) there are no personal computers, (3) most people don't know how to use a computer, much less program one. You'd probably come up with a model that looked a lot like "We'll sell you the machine + train you how to program and use it!" as a package. And then after the world changed, but your offering was very polished, you probably just wouldn't overhaul it. Because it's been working fine for 50 years.
  - naikrovek 4y ago
    > It's not like Bob from IT is going to play around with mainframe coding for a year or so and convince the boss to buy one. not currently, IBM pretty much actively prevents this with their current pricing. it could happen, and would, if people were allowed to learn this on their own. Mainframes are very good at some things. Far better than commodity hardware is today.
- mr_toad 4y ago
  It wouldn’t directly generate any sales commissions.
- mharig 4y ago
  > offer free accounts to people AFAIR, they offer the possibility for a one year free access to a node (Linux/IFL?). I do not remember if it is part of IBM Z Xplore and I didn't find it again with a quick search, but if you contact them they for sure will tell you more. Edit: I just found https://www.openmainframeproject.org/ https://www.openmainframeproject.org/
e12e 4y ago
See also: "Hello World on z/OS" (2018) https://medium.com/the-technical-archaeologist/hello-world-on-z-os-a0ef31c1e87f https://medium.com/the-technical-archaeologist/hello-world-o... Hn discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17642846 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17642846 I seem to recall IBM launched z/os in the cloud as partly a production service, and partly an education/hobby resource a while back - but I'm not sure if that's what's now: https://www.ibm.com/cloud/pricing https://www.ibm.com/cloud/pricing I think it came with access to db2 as well? Ed: I was probably thinking of IBM LinuxOne: https://developer.ibm.com/articles/get-started-with-ibm-linuxone/ https://developer.ibm.com/articles/get-started-with-ibm-linu...
adwww 4y ago
> IBM has a very different model for supporting developers than Microsoft does with MSDN. Interesting comparison, because when I was teaching myself to code in the early 00s, that's how I perceived Microsoft. MSDN was a paid subscription, and the tools you needed to write MS software were also paid. Hence me ending up forming a career on open source software, and a generation of programmers who still turn their nose up at Microsoft languages.
- __d 4y ago
  Except .. they're using VSCode, GitHub and Typescript, probably still on a Windows laptop.
  - mr_toad 4y ago
    None of those things were around in the early 00s.
    - __d 4y ago
      Well, Windows was, but that's not the point. The parent comment noted that there was a generation who shunned Microsoft because of their corporate misbehavior. More recent generations of programmers have forgotten why that was, and Microsoft has, once again, successfully established a dominant position in the development ecosystem. I fully expect that position to be leveraged for profit, and that would see a new generation, 25 years later, who will never trust Microsoft again. Most things are cyclical.
shortlived 4y ago
From the pricing FAQ [1] "Learner's Edition is currently being updated and will return soon" Let's hope "soon" is actually soon :) [1] https://www.ibm.com/products/z-development-test-environment/pricing https://www.ibm.com/products/z-development-test-environment/...

krylon 4y ago

It always struck me as odd that one the one hand, finding people with experience in this field seem to be very hard to find, but on the other hand, IBM makes it so hard for people to learn this stuff. I wonder if it didn't pay off for them in the long run to just put up one beefy machine on the Internet, offer free accounts to people or just a free hobbyist license like you can get for VMS. Are they paranoid about customers cheating to hitch a free ride?

bombcar 4y ago
Because it's relatively easy to hire someone with relevant experience in other fields and give them the internal tooling and training from IBM. After all, IBM wants you to pay IBM to do this stuff for you. It's not like Bob from IT is going to play around with mainframe coding for a year or so and convince the boss to buy one.
- ethbr0 4y ago
  This. The mainframe model seems bizarre to people experienced in modern programming, because they can't imagine all the things that were different. So imagine you're a company selling low volumes (by modern standards) of exquisite computing hardware to highly demanding customers, in a world where... (1) there is no Internet, (2) there are no personal computers, (3) most people don't know how to use a computer, much less program one. You'd probably come up with a model that looked a lot like "We'll sell you the machine + train you how to program and use it!" as a package. And then after the world changed, but your offering was very polished, you probably just wouldn't overhaul it. Because it's been working fine for 50 years.
- naikrovek 4y ago
  > It's not like Bob from IT is going to play around with mainframe coding for a year or so and convince the boss to buy one. not currently, IBM pretty much actively prevents this with their current pricing. it could happen, and would, if people were allowed to learn this on their own. Mainframes are very good at some things. Far better than commodity hardware is today.
mr_toad 4y ago
It wouldn’t directly generate any sales commissions.
mharig 4y ago
> offer free accounts to people AFAIR, they offer the possibility for a one year free access to a node (Linux/IFL?). I do not remember if it is part of IBM Z Xplore and I didn't find it again with a quick search, but if you contact them they for sure will tell you more. Edit: I just found https://www.openmainframeproject.org/ https://www.openmainframeproject.org/

e12e 4y ago

See also: "Hello World on z/OS" (2018) https://medium.com/the-technical-archaeologist/hello-world-on-z-os-a0ef31c1e87f https://medium.com/the-technical-archaeologist/hello-world-o... Hn discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17642846 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17642846 I seem to recall IBM launched z/os in the cloud as partly a production service, and partly an education/hobby resource a while back - but I'm not sure if that's what's now: https://www.ibm.com/cloud/pricing https://www.ibm.com/cloud/pricing I think it came with access to db2 as well? Ed: I was probably thinking of IBM LinuxOne: https://developer.ibm.com/articles/get-started-with-ibm-linuxone/ https://developer.ibm.com/articles/get-started-with-ibm-linu...

adwww 4y ago

> IBM has a very different model for supporting developers than Microsoft does with MSDN. Interesting comparison, because when I was teaching myself to code in the early 00s, that's how I perceived Microsoft. MSDN was a paid subscription, and the tools you needed to write MS software were also paid. Hence me ending up forming a career on open source software, and a generation of programmers who still turn their nose up at Microsoft languages.

__d 4y ago
Except .. they're using VSCode, GitHub and Typescript, probably still on a Windows laptop.
- mr_toad 4y ago
  None of those things were around in the early 00s.
  - __d 4y ago
    Well, Windows was, but that's not the point. The parent comment noted that there was a generation who shunned Microsoft because of their corporate misbehavior. More recent generations of programmers have forgotten why that was, and Microsoft has, once again, successfully established a dominant position in the development ecosystem. I fully expect that position to be leveraged for profit, and that would see a new generation, 25 years later, who will never trust Microsoft again. Most things are cyclical.

shortlived 4y ago

From the pricing FAQ [1] "Learner's Edition is currently being updated and will return soon" Let's hope "soon" is actually soon :) [1] https://www.ibm.com/products/z-development-test-environment/pricing https://www.ibm.com/products/z-development-test-environment/...