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The Oceanic+ app comes to Apple Watch Ultra

175 points by serhack_ 4y ago

hnbear 4y ago
I hope someone makes a Bluetooth add-on to make an air-integrated component for this (or a new app).
sfusato 4y ago
This is great for the scuba community as it will cause other brands to innovate and most importantly bring diving to a wider audience which will help the sport as a whole which will hopefully raise awareness about endangered underwater ecosystems in the long-run.
- shkkmo 4y ago
  I really hope it doesn't cause other brands to adopt the "Dive Computer As A Service" model. I like buying products that I actually own. I feel like pressure to push the cost of reliable dive computers down will do more to democratize diving than an app for an expensive smart watch.
  - tarentel 4y ago
    Although I am not the biggest fan of subscription models I am not sure pushing the cost down of dive computers will help democratize diving. I can't imagine it's a very cheap hobby to begin with. Also, a quick glance, dive computers seem to be $400+, many are $1000+. The watch in question is $800 and I feel like people who are into diving aren't the type of people who find an $800 prohibitively expensive.
    - shkkmo 4y ago
      You can definitely get a solid dive computer for under $400, and the $1000+ are going to have features that won't be present on the Apple Watch Ultra, like air integration, lower depth ratings, etc. Paying other people to take you diving can get pretty expensive quickly, but the dive professionals themselves generally do not make a lot of money. It is one of those things that people do professionally because they love it, not because it pays well. (Speaking only about recreational diving here, industrial diving is a whole different beast.)
    - izacus 4y ago
      Most people use dive computers in range of 200-300$, so a subscription based 700$ Apple device isn't democratizing anything, it's just bringing rent seeking to another market.
  - blululu 4y ago
    Scuba diving is a fundamentally dangerous and expensive hobby. I don't know if this will make a big dent in the cost of a dive. FWIW a snorkel and a pair of fins are pretty cheap. For ~$50 you can have a lot of fun swimming around exploring coastal ecosystems without needing to stress about signals, equipment, safety stops, or any of that stuff. This is a lot closer to democratizing diving than anything else.
- chson 4y ago
  Garmin and Suunto already have dive computers with full smart watch capabilities. Most importantly without a subscription model to use the features.
  - jitl 4y ago
    Those are like $1200 though; same price as Apple Watch Ultra with 5 years of scuba subscription; and have substantially worse displays, ergonomics, and smart watch UX. I went diving with a friend wearing a Suunto smart dive computer, and he couldn’t figure out how to silence the smart watch notifications because the UX was poor; I’ll never have that kind of issue with Apple device.
    - _boffin_ 4y ago
      To me, it seems that your friend was too lazy to read the manual rather than poor UX.
      - kortilla 4y ago
        “read the manual” is part of the UX.
    - Godel_unicode 4y ago
      There’s a huge market for the Fenix/Epix/Descent line from Garmin, which has always been (much!) more expensive than an Apple Watch. The fitness features and general activity tracking on those is far, far better than what you get from an Apple Watch. The UX is amazing, especially when you’re underwater/wearing thick gloves/running hard. The screens are adequate, if you really want super bright punchy colors you can get that but you’ll pay for it in worse battery life. Oh, and also air integration.
      - jitl 4y ago
        True! I’m speaking as a consumer who was considering several $1200+ options actively - like, I had the tabs open and a Notion DB to catalog the pros and cons of different options. But once I saw the news about the Apple Watch Ultra, I closed the tabs, deleted the Notion DB, and ordered an Apple Watch. I’d like air integration, but vastly prefer spending $800 on an all-day every-day watch to a $1200 sometimes watch.
- mynameisvlad 4y ago
  Will it? I doubt it, honestly. Huish, the makers of this app, own the majority of big names in the industry. The reason it’s called Oceanic+ is because they own Oceanic. Along with Apollo, Bare, Ollis, Zeagle and a few others. Interestingly, they don’t believe enough in this app to brand it Suunto, their more current dive watch brand. My fear is the next Suunto watch will have subscriptions, if this app proves successful.
  - krugua 4y ago
    To my knowledge Suunto is owned by Anta Sports / Amer sports. Huish is the U.S. distributor for Suunto. Or did I miss something?
    - mynameisvlad 4y ago
      Apparently it's no longer Amer sports, according to https://www.divenewswire.com/huish-outdoors-named-distributor-of-all-suunto-products-in-the-usa-canada-and-caribbean/ https://www.divenewswire.com/huish-outdoors-named-distributo... Honestly it seems more like a partnership than a distribution agreement. Huish's website (https://www.huishoutdoors.com/suunto/ https://www.huishoutdoors.com/suunto/) and the press release itself make it sound like Suunto Outdoors is another brand like the others Huish actually owns, so I'm not confident where they stand. I always assumed Huish owned Suunto given their own site's materials.
dagmx 4y ago
Title is misleading. This is a third party application for the Apple Watch Ultra that is being highlighted, not an Apple product itself.
- isitmadeofglass 4y ago
  It’s not misleading, this is Apple releasing the news and it has obviously been developed in collaboration with Apple. The term “Dive computer” is not something to be taken lightly. It’s hardware you literally depend on to keep you alive during a dive. The fact that Apple is supporting this externally developed app says they have a very higher level of trust in their hardware. Typically a dive computer would cost more than an Apple Watch and be a single purpose device. The fact that Apple is entering the arena is quite a disruption as other brands will be forced to either compete on price or really raise the bar on innovation to justify their current levels.
  - shkkmo 4y ago
    Most dive computers cost less (often less than half) than an Apple Watch Ultra and don't require any subscription to maintain functionality. Also, since you are trusting your life to the waterproofing of the watch, a EDC watch that takes abuse all day that could compromise that waterproofing seems like a bit of a risk unless it is only being used as a secondary / backup dive computer.
    - thinkmcfly 4y ago
      Do they have the same clout tho? I bet you can make some pretty sweet gram content with this. Edit: why the hate? Do you guys love Instagram or something?
      - mynameisvlad 4y ago
        They have the same “keep you alive” clout which is arguably much more important in diving. There are also thousands of cooler things that would bring you more views than an AWU in any typical tropical dive.
raybb 4y ago
> For access to decompression tracking, tissue loading, the location planner, and an unlimited logbook capacity, Oceanic+ is $9.99 (US) per month, or annually for $79.99 (US). Family Sharing is also available for $129 (US) annually, allowing access for up to five people.
- jitl 4y ago
  I want to take a sabbatical and clone this stuff as an open source project. It’s so obnoxious that Apple advertised the watch as a dive computer, but you need to pay a third party $10/mo to use those features. I was considering sport watches in the $1200 range which make the $800 Apple Watch look like a steal, but after 5 years the total ownership cost of Apple Watch will be higher. It still seems like a fine deal on paper since outside of scuba, the Apple Watch is vastly preferable to a Garmin or Suunto to me, but it’s annoying!
  - twobitshifter 4y ago
    Coincidentally, Linus Torvalds took a sabbatical to make a dive log program. https://subsurface-divelog.org/ https://subsurface-divelog.org/
  - ASalazarMX 4y ago
    That would make Apple release Oceanic+ Pro, and if you do it again, Oceanic+ Pro Max.
  - dymk 4y ago
    I only dive a couple months out of the year. This seems like a steal for me.
  - threeseed 4y ago
    You don't need to keep the subscription active. Just enable when you need it.
    - jitl 4y ago
      Right but will it drop my logged dives? It claims to only store the 15 recent dives unless you subscribe. Really I want to store dive logs in an open format synced via iCloud, Google Drive, or uploaded to Notion, ideally without needing to screw around with a second app, import/export process, etc.
foxandmouse 4y ago
This reminds me of Linus Torvalds Subsurface project: https://subsurface-divelog.org/ https://subsurface-divelog.org/ Unfortunately I don't have enough domain knowledge to do a comparison.
- apetresc 4y ago
  I have 0 domain knowledge as well, but it's pretty clear that no "comparison" can be made considering that Subsurface is a visualizer of logs from a dive computer, and Oceanic+ turns an Apple Watch into a dive computer. I guess it's possible that Subsurface might add support for visualizing logs from Oceanic+.
jupp0r 4y ago
Any HN scuba divers here that would use this as their only dive computer on a dive? I'm not a scuba diver myself but do engage in other adventure sports where reliable equipment can make the difference between a great trip and disaster. I'd be very reluctant to trust my life or health to this.
- jitl 4y ago
  I plan to do so, and already purchased an Apple Watch Ultra for this purpose. I also started writing my own dive computer app for the watch to learn SwiftUI. My plan is to dive a few more times with both a traditional rented dive computer and the Ultra to build confidence, and then switch 100% over to the Ultra.
  - shkkmo 4y ago
    I would highly recommend at least buying a cheaper secondary dive computer to take with you in case something goes wrong.
    - isitmadeofglass 4y ago
      That’s standard diving practice. You have a backup regulator and a backup dice computer. And in the event of both primært and secondsry familier you have a plan for how to handle it. But both the backup regulator and dice computer is on your companion. You don’t dive with two yourself.
      - jakear 4y ago
        You don't dive with two regulators? I haven't been in a while but I fairly distinctly remember having two regulators per person, that way if one fails you don't have to immediately fall back on passing regulators back and forth breath-by-breath. The backup isn't a particularly nice regulator, probably reusing the mechanism your vest uses to inflate, but better than nothing.
        4y ago
ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
That is cool. I assume that it has been tested and certified. Dive computers are critical safety gear. You really don't want them crashing on you.
- isitmadeofglass 4y ago
  Crashing would be the least of the worries in my opinion. If it crashes, you as a diver know what to do and it’s no different from any other dive computer breaking. My major worry would be bad sensor readings or software errors leading it to provide bad instructions on how fast you can surface, or how long you need to do decompression stops. Depending on the dive, it’s a situation where differences in the displayed numbers mean the difference between a great day and serious injury. I really hope; but also expect that this is thoroughly tested.
  - noelherrick 4y ago
    This is an excellent point, and one that I hadn't thought of. I've seen dive computer failure but never erroneous readings.
  - shkkmo 4y ago
    > If it crashes, you as a diver know what to do and it’s no different from any other dive computer breaking. Ideally, yes. However, a crash significantly increases the chances of diver error leading to an incident. Diving without a computer requires more careful adherence to a dive plan. If you lose your dive computer and haven't been carefully following a preset plan, you should generally start the process of surfacing immediately and do so with decompression stops that have as large a margin for error as feasible and then stop diving for the day (edit: or if you've been good at staying with your buddy, you use their computer while still adding a healthy margin for error).
- camtarn 4y ago
  I was wondering this as well. The article says "Apple Watch Ultra is certified to WR100 and EN 13319, an internationally recognized standard for dive accessories, including depth gauges." - people with domain knowledge, is this 'enough' certification?
esotericimpl 4y ago
Yet you will still void the warranty if you dive with it: Apple Watch Ultra has a water resistance rating of 100 meters under ISO standard 22810. Apple Watch Ultra may be used for recreational scuba diving (with a compatible third-party app from the App Store) to 40 meters, and for high-speed water sports. Apple Watch Ultra should not be used for diving below 40 meters. Water resistance is not a permanent condition and can diminish over time. For additional information, see support.apple.com/en-us/HT205000.
- jitl 4y ago
  What do you mean? It’s rated to 100m, which is quite a bit below the 40m limit for most recreational diving.
  - teddyh 4y ago
    “Rated to 100m” does not mean what you think it means. It means, essentially, that it theoretically would be safe at 100m depth, assuming you lower it slowly and don’t move it about at all. IIUC, local water pressure varies significantly when you move something around underwater, which is why “100m pressure proof” does not mean “can be brought down to 100m depth”.
    - JohnBooty 4y ago
      IIUC, local water pressure varies significantly when you move something around underwater If Wikipedia can be trusted here, movement doesn't increase water pressure as much as we think: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diving_watch#Water_resistance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diving_watch#Water_resistance Movement induced dynamic pressure increase is sometimes the subject of urban myths and marketing arguments for diver's watches with high water resistance ratings. When a diver makes a fast swimming movement of 10m/s (32.8ft/s) (the best competitive swimmers and finswimmers can not swim nearly that fast) physics dictates that the diver generates a dynamic pressure of 0.5 bars (50kPa) or the equivalent of 5 meters of additional water depth. One other thing stands out to me... It means, essentially, that it theoretically would be safe at 100m depth It's interesting (alarming?) that they chose the "weaker" ISO standard 22810 for water resistance, in which a sampling of units are tested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_Resistant_mark https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_Resistant_mark ISO 6425 is much more stringent and specifies that every single unit is pressure tested to 125% of rated capability, ie a 200M ISO 6425 watch has been individually tested at 250M for a period of time.
scrumper 4y ago
Haptics you can feel through a 7mm wetsuit? I'm impressed by that, although I'd not want them turned up that high on my bare wrist! This seems like a winner for vacation diving. For those divers that manage a couple dives a year on the family trip to the Caribbean, you have a device you know extremely well from daily life and that you know you keep charged, rather than a standalone computer you kinda forgot to get serviced or, worse, have to rent. Big, clear ascent rate warnings in color. It looks more accessible than some inscrutable Suunto, especially with a companion phone app. If I had an apple watch I'd wear this it on my other wrist to my Perdix just to get GPS integration and all the health monitoring too - interesting to correlate heart rate with events in the dive, gas consumption and so on.
- BugsJustFindMe 4y ago
  GPS doesn't work underwater. Would it be for finding your way back to the boat after resurfacing?
  - mynameisvlad 4y ago
    Also for tagging your dives. Your watch would know where you descended/ascended. It’s great for when you’re in the middle of nowhere on a liveaboard and you forget the names of the dive sites. My Suunto watch uses the phone’s GPS for the same purpose.
    - scrumper 4y ago
      Yes exactly, it's for tagging dives. Times and locations only, nothing about what happens underwater. Edit: actually my computer does that too, well, the app does sort of: the app I have for capturing data from it takes the GPS location when you trigger a sync. Since I don't sync on the boat (why play with a phone?!) it's not very useful. You can easily edit though, drag a pin around and plop the rough location. MacDive, it's a decent bit of software.
      - mynameisvlad 4y ago
maeln 4y ago
This is still crazy to me that most (all?) smartwatch cannot get past ~50m WR when I can buy a basic casio for a fraction of the cost with 100m to 200m WR. But then I guess using a tactile screen underwater is pretty hard. I really don't see the Apple Watch being use has anything but a gadget for diving. edit: so the apple watch ultra has a WR of 100m. I stand corrected.
- threeseed 4y ago
  a) 99.9% of all dives happening today are going to be <18m which is the maximum depth for PADI Open Water certified divers. And then Advanced certified is still <30m. b) The point of a dive watch is not just to tell the time. You need to know the depth, time spent underwater, no decompression limits, safety stops etc. c) Not that I was able to test since the crown is disabled but the Apple Watch crown is very easy to use water even with gloves.
- dagmx 4y ago
  The Apple Watch Ultra is rated to 100m. Recreational diving is regulated to 40m. The app follows the latter. It is unlikely your Casio would be rated for recreational diving beyond the same limits either
ashtonbaker 4y ago
I think this looks amazing for warm-water vacation divers - typically they are stuck with rental equipment, which usually means a cheap, dated computer on a bulky console. Having a well-designed UI will definitely improve these divers safety - the last boat dive I went on, an experienced diver blew past no-deco limits because he didn't understand his unfamiliar rental computer. That being said, I can't personally imagine taking the Apple Watch Ultra to, say, 80-90 feet if it's only rated to 130. It's just too expensive.
- stetrain 4y ago
  My understanding is the Apple Watch Ultra is physically rated to 100 meters / 328 feet. The 40 meters / 130 feet rating is for the dive computer functionality.
- lolsoftware 4y ago
  Slight clarification: the Apple Watch Ultra has a water resistance rating of 100m. The Oceanic+ app has a 130ft/40m limit because that's the recreational diving limit. [1]: https://support.apple.com/kb/SP879?viewlocale=en_IN&locale=en_IN#:~:text=Apple%20Watch%20Ultra%20has%20a,for%20diving%20below%2040%20meters https://support.apple.com/kb/SP879?viewlocale=en_IN&locale=e....
  - ashtonbaker 4y ago
    Oh, cool! It looks like that's the limit of Apple's Depth app, as well, which is what I found when I searched, and assumed it was the limit of the watch. Well that's definitely better - I wonder what happens when you go under 130 feet, though. A dedicated dive computer would at least provide accurate information, rather than throwing you to the wolves because you exceeded some legal limit. Also on the plus side, some of the existing air pressure transmitters use bluetooth, so if they could get that working, they'd actually be one of the cheapest air-integrated computers on the market. (edit: they do not use bluetooth, they use low-frequency radio ~38khz) I think I'll stick with my Shearwater Peregrine though, pros and cons considered.
    - 4y ago
ddoolin 4y ago
So is there nothing showing tank air? Most of the newer dive computers have tank companions (dongles if you will) that connect wirelessly to display tank air levels. That feature is non-negotiable to me in a dive computer now.
gjsman-1000 4y ago
Sometimes my brain works so weird. When I first saw "Oceanic+," I thought it must be another offering like "TV+" or "Fitness+." I then wondered what it might be and my first thought, I'm not joking, was that this was going to be an ocean nature documentary subscription service to compete with National Geographic on Disney+. Dive computer? OK... that makes way more sense...
aynyc 4y ago
I haven't dived (dove?) in 10 years. Last gen dive computers are excellent, but super expensive. Before that, I just use a casio watch and gauges. That being said, unless regulations or recommendations have changed, you still need an analog backup gauges that usually have 3 (compass, depth and tank pressure) + extra regulator. So even if the watch decided to die, you are still safe. I just looked at the screen shots in the article, nothing that different than my old dive computer. If I go back to being a regular recreational diver, I probably would get that watch and app.
Kukumber 4y ago
- threeseed 4y ago
  You don't need to pay the full subscription. You just activate it when you're diving and then deactivate it when you're not. And having done quite a bit of diving with the Apple Watch it's worth every cent.
tiffanyh 4y ago
@dang The title should be renamed "Available today, the Oceanic+ app on Apple Watch Ultra" Because the current title of "Apple Introduces Oceanic+" implies this is a 1st party app from Apple, which it is not.
- scarface74 4y ago
  No part of the definition of “introduction” implies that it is a first party app.
  - 9wzYQbTYsAIc 4y ago
    To introduce: “…; originate: introduced the new product in several test markets; ….” [1] [1] https://www.thefreedictionary.com/introduce https://www.thefreedictionary.com/introduce
    - scarface74 4y ago
      It still doesn’t imply it’s a first party product. I can “introduce Angular to my team”. That doesn’t mean I wrote Angular.
      - mattigames 4y ago
        "Google introduces Angular" does mean that (even if you didn't knew what Angular is beforehand)
        scarface74 4y ago
        It absolutely doesn’t. People have been “introducing” other people for centuries. Where in any dictionary doesn’t imply any such thing? So if a consultant from McKinsey “introduces cloud best practices to company $x”, does that imply that McKinsey created AWS?
        mattigames 4y ago
belorn 4y ago
I can with confidence say that I would not trust a dive computer that is rated to a maximum of 40 meters. It would be a bit like owning a car where the breaks were rated for a maximum of 110 km/h. Sure, most of the time you might stay under that limit, but for safety equipment you do want some margins. If a person accidental loose buoyancy for a moment and end up at 41 meters, they could really end up in a terrible situation. The added stress, not being able to monitor ascent rate, and no information regarding NDL (the no decompression limit). Humans can't survive on their own under water. Visiting there require equipment designed for that purpose. They don't need to be expensive but they do need to do the job. A 90% functional diving equipment can easily result in 100% dead diver.
tyho 4y ago
I don't think this will be a useful dive computer for most people. When I first heard the Apple Watch would work as a dive computer I was very excited, but having spent some time thinking about it, and having done 20 dives since the watch was announced, I have changed my mind. The first problem is battery life. I didn't have to replace the battery on my computer for the 20 dives over a week I did recently. If I had gotten a low battery warning, I could have replaced the coin cell battery in five minutes. With the Apple Watch, I would be uncomfortable starting a dive with less than 80% battery, which means remembering to charge it before every dive. If I forget to charge it, then I cannot quickly replace the battery, and I cannot switch to a backup computer if I hadn't taken it with me on my previous dives as it wouldn't know my tissue loading. Forgetting to charge the watch before any dive would mean missing the dive. The 40m limit is not a good idea. I imagine Apple's legal department are forcing this one, but it's a really bad idea. I went slightly below 40m a few times last week, I know that breaks "the rules", but I know the risks and they honestly aren't that bad if you don't push things too far. Having my computer lock out, refuse to give me NDL times, depth info or deco stop info if needed is not a good idea, especially when you really need it at those depths. There is also no mention of nitrox, so I assume it's not supported. That would make this the only dive computer released in the last decade that doesn't support nitrox diving. Nobody who is interested in owning a dive computer will want a computer that doesn't support nitrox. The one good thing I see about this is the haptics. It's really easy to get alert fatigue underwater from other dive computers beeping around you. Haptics would be far better.
- onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
  It's not about being useful. It's about marketing to people that want to signal.
- Terretta 4y ago
  > With the Apple Watch, I would be uncomfortable starting a dive with less than 80% battery... You'd get over that quickly if you owned this watch. It stays above 80% all the time, with just a few minutes on a mag charge in AM, while you're showering for example, and a few minutes in the evening (during a TV show or video game, for example), even when using it all day for work notifications and all night as a sleep monitor. It goes 2 or 3 days without charge, and that's before their software update to get a multiple of that. Assuming a 30W+ charger brick, it's surprising how quickly it tops back to 80% ready to go another day or two. Workout mode doesn't burn much more, neither does dive. Your other takes could improve with actual use as well. Nitrox and gas config, for example, is on the 2nd to last and last screenshots of the watch app itself.
_l7dh 4y ago
I truly wonder. Why is Apple doing that? If I'm not mistaken, it is a small niche in terms of revenue. My hypothesis is that this is perhaps a new approach for marketing: find hobbies that correlate the most with the populations with the biggest potential revenue, taking into account the networking and demographic effects within such a population. Just throwing this off the top of my head. Bear with me :-).
- jackdh 4y ago
  Diving has a much larger market than you'd initially believe. For instance, consider all of watch brands which have basically created an entire company under the premise of diving.
- the_other 4y ago
  Everything about the Ultra model is like this. It's pure aspiration porn made physical. It worked really well for Apple in the '00s. Their computer hardware was expensive enough that most people wouldn't think to buy it over a similar PC. Today, Apple's phones, watches and tablets are much more commodity items (cue someone telling me the sales figures tell a different story). The economics are still largely the same now, but the perception of Apple hardware has changed. They use the XDR screen, the Mac Pro (the big boxy one) and now the Ultra series watch to create the sense of mystique.
- idreyn 4y ago
  I think that's basically right. They've been weaving "high-status outdoor adventuring" into their brand for a long time — think about the codenames High Sierra and Mavericks, or going to an Apple store and seeing a ski trip under planning in the sample iMessages. A big part of the way Apple signals their products as clean, healthy, and high-status is by depicting themselves as exactly that sort of people. (Not to imply that this is particularly disingenuous, but they know exactly what they're doing)
- fundad 4y ago
  Fashion is my simple answer. I think serving the niche well promotes sales among people with disposable income. People like it for looks.
raydiatian 4y ago
> Oceanic+ enables recreational scuba divers to take the watch they wear every day to previously unreachable depths — up to 40 meters, or 130 feet, to be exact This is perfect, as the limit for nitrox diving (ie the most frequently used mixture of gas for recreational dives) is a little over 130 ft.
maratc 4y ago
I have more than 500 dives under my weight belt, and I have a (regular) Apple watch, but I'm skeptical. First, there's no mention of Nitrox anywhere (except in a screenshot). Most of the serious folks use this mix (basically, air enriched with some more oxygen) for their dives, it's unclear if — or to what extent — this supports Nitrox. Second, there's no mention of the decompression algorithm they use. Buhlmann, Suunto RGBM, VPM are examples of algorithms where the assumptions about human physiology are backed by hundreds of thousands of dives, but what is driving this specific piece is kind of a mystery. As this device comes under "life support equipment" category, I would love to see more information about that. Third, battery life is a concern here, while it almost never is with dedicated dive computers. My main device requires a trip to Switzerland every 10-15 years, and my backup device is serviced locally every 3 years or so; having a "two full days battery life" somewhat pales in comparison. Finally, $10 a month is pretty expensive, especially when it comes on top of $700 down payment. Unclear what happens when you stop paying. I don't doubt that there are people who don't worry about that kind of money: the watch blogs are full with people discussing diving with their Rolexes and Omegas, but I have never seen anyone doing that in real world. 90% of the people use dive computers (owned or rented), and 90% of the rest use basic G-Shocks; you are lucky to see anyone with a mechanical timepiece (which almost always happens to be made by Seiko).
- izacus 4y ago
  I'm pretty sure this will be used by people who go on a week of dives every half a year or so (those are most people I meet in touristy dive places these days) and not by tech or nitrox divers. For those people it makes more sense - no need to carry another dive computer, no need to buy another device and the battery will be just fine for two/three dives in a day. More serious people will still get their Shearwaters/Garmins and other devices. Although, Apple might cause those companies to go out of business eventually and you'll have to buy their subscription for your sport in a few years anyway :)
  - maratc 4y ago
    > For those people it makes more sense $80 a year can get you a rental computer for 8 days, and you don't have to worry about its battery — or you get another piece. > you'll have to buy their subscription for your sport in a few years anyway My Spyder (from 2001) will be working just fine long after my Apple Watch will become a deadweight. As there is no subscription, no online service, and no monthly payment, it could also survive the bankruptcy of its manufacturer.
kh_hk 4y ago
This might be a pivotal moment on subscription based hardware. Apple is selling their hardware as a software platform _to_ companies that already sell their hardware. Will this force other companies selling dive computers to adapt and also use publish an app for Apple's platform? As a diver it's clear to me that the target audience are future divers. We might delude ourselves on the pros and cons of our current dive computer, models and so on. But I am sure someone entering the sport will consider this along the other options. My personal opinion, a big majority of recreational (shallow) diving does not even require a dive computer and it all comes into LARPing territory. It's good to know your depth and the time you spent underwater, that's all. I have seen people wearing a +1k USD dive computer diving at most <20m. Of course it's none of my business how they decide to part with their money. This much money will give you a very nice dive computer, albeit terribly complex and completely overkill for most of the rec. diving. If someone is willing to spend that much on a dive computer for rec diving, I guess an apple watch is money better spent? Let's just acknowledge that a Shearwater Perdix is a tough sell to someone that wants to spend this much but dives very very occasionally and shallow. I am just sad about the subscription model and the implications this might have if/when it proves successful.

175 points by serhack_ 4y ago

I hope someone makes a Bluetooth add-on to make an air-integrated component for this (or a new app).

This is great for the scuba community as it will cause other brands to innovate and most importantly bring diving to a wider audience which will help the sport as a whole which will hopefully raise awareness about endangered underwater ecosystems in the long-run.

shkkmo 4y ago
I really hope it doesn't cause other brands to adopt the "Dive Computer As A Service" model. I like buying products that I actually own. I feel like pressure to push the cost of reliable dive computers down will do more to democratize diving than an app for an expensive smart watch.
- tarentel 4y ago
  Although I am not the biggest fan of subscription models I am not sure pushing the cost down of dive computers will help democratize diving. I can't imagine it's a very cheap hobby to begin with. Also, a quick glance, dive computers seem to be $400+, many are $1000+. The watch in question is $800 and I feel like people who are into diving aren't the type of people who find an $800 prohibitively expensive.
  - shkkmo 4y ago
    You can definitely get a solid dive computer for under $400, and the $1000+ are going to have features that won't be present on the Apple Watch Ultra, like air integration, lower depth ratings, etc. Paying other people to take you diving can get pretty expensive quickly, but the dive professionals themselves generally do not make a lot of money. It is one of those things that people do professionally because they love it, not because it pays well. (Speaking only about recreational diving here, industrial diving is a whole different beast.)
  - izacus 4y ago
    Most people use dive computers in range of 200-300$, so a subscription based 700$ Apple device isn't democratizing anything, it's just bringing rent seeking to another market.
- blululu 4y ago
  Scuba diving is a fundamentally dangerous and expensive hobby. I don't know if this will make a big dent in the cost of a dive. FWIW a snorkel and a pair of fins are pretty cheap. For ~$50 you can have a lot of fun swimming around exploring coastal ecosystems without needing to stress about signals, equipment, safety stops, or any of that stuff. This is a lot closer to democratizing diving than anything else.
chson 4y ago
Garmin and Suunto already have dive computers with full smart watch capabilities. Most importantly without a subscription model to use the features.
- jitl 4y ago
  Those are like $1200 though; same price as Apple Watch Ultra with 5 years of scuba subscription; and have substantially worse displays, ergonomics, and smart watch UX. I went diving with a friend wearing a Suunto smart dive computer, and he couldn’t figure out how to silence the smart watch notifications because the UX was poor; I’ll never have that kind of issue with Apple device.
  - _boffin_ 4y ago
    To me, it seems that your friend was too lazy to read the manual rather than poor UX.
    - kortilla 4y ago
      “read the manual” is part of the UX.
  - Godel_unicode 4y ago
    There’s a huge market for the Fenix/Epix/Descent line from Garmin, which has always been (much!) more expensive than an Apple Watch. The fitness features and general activity tracking on those is far, far better than what you get from an Apple Watch. The UX is amazing, especially when you’re underwater/wearing thick gloves/running hard. The screens are adequate, if you really want super bright punchy colors you can get that but you’ll pay for it in worse battery life. Oh, and also air integration.
    - jitl 4y ago
      True! I’m speaking as a consumer who was considering several $1200+ options actively - like, I had the tabs open and a Notion DB to catalog the pros and cons of different options. But once I saw the news about the Apple Watch Ultra, I closed the tabs, deleted the Notion DB, and ordered an Apple Watch. I’d like air integration, but vastly prefer spending $800 on an all-day every-day watch to a $1200 sometimes watch.
mynameisvlad 4y ago
Will it? I doubt it, honestly. Huish, the makers of this app, own the majority of big names in the industry. The reason it’s called Oceanic+ is because they own Oceanic. Along with Apollo, Bare, Ollis, Zeagle and a few others. Interestingly, they don’t believe enough in this app to brand it Suunto, their more current dive watch brand. My fear is the next Suunto watch will have subscriptions, if this app proves successful.
- krugua 4y ago
  To my knowledge Suunto is owned by Anta Sports / Amer sports. Huish is the U.S. distributor for Suunto. Or did I miss something?
  - mynameisvlad 4y ago
    Apparently it's no longer Amer sports, according to https://www.divenewswire.com/huish-outdoors-named-distributor-of-all-suunto-products-in-the-usa-canada-and-caribbean/ https://www.divenewswire.com/huish-outdoors-named-distributo... Honestly it seems more like a partnership than a distribution agreement. Huish's website (https://www.huishoutdoors.com/suunto/ https://www.huishoutdoors.com/suunto/) and the press release itself make it sound like Suunto Outdoors is another brand like the others Huish actually owns, so I'm not confident where they stand. I always assumed Huish owned Suunto given their own site's materials.

dagmx 4y ago

Title is misleading. This is a third party application for the Apple Watch Ultra that is being highlighted, not an Apple product itself.

isitmadeofglass 4y ago
It’s not misleading, this is Apple releasing the news and it has obviously been developed in collaboration with Apple. The term “Dive computer” is not something to be taken lightly. It’s hardware you literally depend on to keep you alive during a dive. The fact that Apple is supporting this externally developed app says they have a very higher level of trust in their hardware. Typically a dive computer would cost more than an Apple Watch and be a single purpose device. The fact that Apple is entering the arena is quite a disruption as other brands will be forced to either compete on price or really raise the bar on innovation to justify their current levels.
- shkkmo 4y ago
  Most dive computers cost less (often less than half) than an Apple Watch Ultra and don't require any subscription to maintain functionality. Also, since you are trusting your life to the waterproofing of the watch, a EDC watch that takes abuse all day that could compromise that waterproofing seems like a bit of a risk unless it is only being used as a secondary / backup dive computer.
  - thinkmcfly 4y ago
    Do they have the same clout tho? I bet you can make some pretty sweet gram content with this. Edit: why the hate? Do you guys love Instagram or something?
    - mynameisvlad 4y ago
      They have the same “keep you alive” clout which is arguably much more important in diving. There are also thousands of cooler things that would bring you more views than an AWU in any typical tropical dive.

raybb 4y ago

> For access to decompression tracking, tissue loading, the location planner, and an unlimited logbook capacity, Oceanic+ is $9.99 (US) per month, or annually for $79.99 (US). Family Sharing is also available for $129 (US) annually, allowing access for up to five people.

jitl 4y ago
I want to take a sabbatical and clone this stuff as an open source project. It’s so obnoxious that Apple advertised the watch as a dive computer, but you need to pay a third party $10/mo to use those features. I was considering sport watches in the $1200 range which make the $800 Apple Watch look like a steal, but after 5 years the total ownership cost of Apple Watch will be higher. It still seems like a fine deal on paper since outside of scuba, the Apple Watch is vastly preferable to a Garmin or Suunto to me, but it’s annoying!
- twobitshifter 4y ago
  Coincidentally, Linus Torvalds took a sabbatical to make a dive log program. https://subsurface-divelog.org/ https://subsurface-divelog.org/
- ASalazarMX 4y ago
  That would make Apple release Oceanic+ Pro, and if you do it again, Oceanic+ Pro Max.
- dymk 4y ago
  I only dive a couple months out of the year. This seems like a steal for me.
- threeseed 4y ago
  You don't need to keep the subscription active. Just enable when you need it.
  - jitl 4y ago
    Right but will it drop my logged dives? It claims to only store the 15 recent dives unless you subscribe. Really I want to store dive logs in an open format synced via iCloud, Google Drive, or uploaded to Notion, ideally without needing to screw around with a second app, import/export process, etc.

foxandmouse 4y ago

This reminds me of Linus Torvalds Subsurface project: https://subsurface-divelog.org/ https://subsurface-divelog.org/ Unfortunately I don't have enough domain knowledge to do a comparison.

apetresc 4y ago
I have 0 domain knowledge as well, but it's pretty clear that no "comparison" can be made considering that Subsurface is a visualizer of logs from a dive computer, and Oceanic+ turns an Apple Watch into a dive computer. I guess it's possible that Subsurface might add support for visualizing logs from Oceanic+.

jupp0r 4y ago

Any HN scuba divers here that would use this as their only dive computer on a dive? I'm not a scuba diver myself but do engage in other adventure sports where reliable equipment can make the difference between a great trip and disaster. I'd be very reluctant to trust my life or health to this.

jitl 4y ago
I plan to do so, and already purchased an Apple Watch Ultra for this purpose. I also started writing my own dive computer app for the watch to learn SwiftUI. My plan is to dive a few more times with both a traditional rented dive computer and the Ultra to build confidence, and then switch 100% over to the Ultra.
- shkkmo 4y ago
  I would highly recommend at least buying a cheaper secondary dive computer to take with you in case something goes wrong.
  - isitmadeofglass 4y ago
    That’s standard diving practice. You have a backup regulator and a backup dice computer. And in the event of both primært and secondsry familier you have a plan for how to handle it. But both the backup regulator and dice computer is on your companion. You don’t dive with two yourself.
    - jakear 4y ago
      You don't dive with two regulators? I haven't been in a while but I fairly distinctly remember having two regulators per person, that way if one fails you don't have to immediately fall back on passing regulators back and forth breath-by-breath. The backup isn't a particularly nice regulator, probably reusing the mechanism your vest uses to inflate, but better than nothing.
      - 4y ago

ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago

That is cool. I assume that it has been tested and certified. Dive computers are critical safety gear. You really don't want them crashing on you.

isitmadeofglass 4y ago
Crashing would be the least of the worries in my opinion. If it crashes, you as a diver know what to do and it’s no different from any other dive computer breaking. My major worry would be bad sensor readings or software errors leading it to provide bad instructions on how fast you can surface, or how long you need to do decompression stops. Depending on the dive, it’s a situation where differences in the displayed numbers mean the difference between a great day and serious injury. I really hope; but also expect that this is thoroughly tested.
- noelherrick 4y ago
  This is an excellent point, and one that I hadn't thought of. I've seen dive computer failure but never erroneous readings.
- shkkmo 4y ago
  > If it crashes, you as a diver know what to do and it’s no different from any other dive computer breaking. Ideally, yes. However, a crash significantly increases the chances of diver error leading to an incident. Diving without a computer requires more careful adherence to a dive plan. If you lose your dive computer and haven't been carefully following a preset plan, you should generally start the process of surfacing immediately and do so with decompression stops that have as large a margin for error as feasible and then stop diving for the day (edit: or if you've been good at staying with your buddy, you use their computer while still adding a healthy margin for error).
camtarn 4y ago
I was wondering this as well. The article says "Apple Watch Ultra is certified to WR100 and EN 13319, an internationally recognized standard for dive accessories, including depth gauges." - people with domain knowledge, is this 'enough' certification?

esotericimpl 4y ago

Yet you will still void the warranty if you dive with it: Apple Watch Ultra has a water resistance rating of 100 meters under ISO standard 22810. Apple Watch Ultra may be used for recreational scuba diving (with a compatible third-party app from the App Store) to 40 meters, and for high-speed water sports. Apple Watch Ultra should not be used for diving below 40 meters. Water resistance is not a permanent condition and can diminish over time. For additional information, see support.apple.com/en-us/HT205000.

jitl 4y ago
What do you mean? It’s rated to 100m, which is quite a bit below the 40m limit for most recreational diving.
- teddyh 4y ago
  “Rated to 100m” does not mean what you think it means. It means, essentially, that it theoretically would be safe at 100m depth, assuming you lower it slowly and don’t move it about at all. IIUC, local water pressure varies significantly when you move something around underwater, which is why “100m pressure proof” does not mean “can be brought down to 100m depth”.
  - JohnBooty 4y ago
    IIUC, local water pressure varies significantly when you move something around underwater If Wikipedia can be trusted here, movement doesn't increase water pressure as much as we think: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diving_watch#Water_resistance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diving_watch#Water_resistance Movement induced dynamic pressure increase is sometimes the subject of urban myths and marketing arguments for diver's watches with high water resistance ratings. When a diver makes a fast swimming movement of 10m/s (32.8ft/s) (the best competitive swimmers and finswimmers can not swim nearly that fast) physics dictates that the diver generates a dynamic pressure of 0.5 bars (50kPa) or the equivalent of 5 meters of additional water depth. One other thing stands out to me... It means, essentially, that it theoretically would be safe at 100m depth It's interesting (alarming?) that they chose the "weaker" ISO standard 22810 for water resistance, in which a sampling of units are tested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_Resistant_mark https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_Resistant_mark ISO 6425 is much more stringent and specifies that every single unit is pressure tested to 125% of rated capability, ie a 200M ISO 6425 watch has been individually tested at 250M for a period of time.

scrumper 4y ago

Haptics you can feel through a 7mm wetsuit? I'm impressed by that, although I'd not want them turned up that high on my bare wrist! This seems like a winner for vacation diving. For those divers that manage a couple dives a year on the family trip to the Caribbean, you have a device you know extremely well from daily life and that you know you keep charged, rather than a standalone computer you kinda forgot to get serviced or, worse, have to rent. Big, clear ascent rate warnings in color. It looks more accessible than some inscrutable Suunto, especially with a companion phone app. If I had an apple watch I'd wear this it on my other wrist to my Perdix just to get GPS integration and all the health monitoring too - interesting to correlate heart rate with events in the dive, gas consumption and so on.

BugsJustFindMe 4y ago
GPS doesn't work underwater. Would it be for finding your way back to the boat after resurfacing?
- mynameisvlad 4y ago
  Also for tagging your dives. Your watch would know where you descended/ascended. It’s great for when you’re in the middle of nowhere on a liveaboard and you forget the names of the dive sites. My Suunto watch uses the phone’s GPS for the same purpose.
  - scrumper 4y ago
    Yes exactly, it's for tagging dives. Times and locations only, nothing about what happens underwater. Edit: actually my computer does that too, well, the app does sort of: the app I have for capturing data from it takes the GPS location when you trigger a sync. Since I don't sync on the boat (why play with a phone?!) it's not very useful. You can easily edit though, drag a pin around and plop the rough location. MacDive, it's a decent bit of software.
    - mynameisvlad 4y ago

maeln 4y ago

This is still crazy to me that most (all?) smartwatch cannot get past ~50m WR when I can buy a basic casio for a fraction of the cost with 100m to 200m WR. But then I guess using a tactile screen underwater is pretty hard. I really don't see the Apple Watch being use has anything but a gadget for diving. edit: so the apple watch ultra has a WR of 100m. I stand corrected.

threeseed 4y ago
a) 99.9% of all dives happening today are going to be <18m which is the maximum depth for PADI Open Water certified divers. And then Advanced certified is still <30m. b) The point of a dive watch is not just to tell the time. You need to know the depth, time spent underwater, no decompression limits, safety stops etc. c) Not that I was able to test since the crown is disabled but the Apple Watch crown is very easy to use water even with gloves.
dagmx 4y ago
The Apple Watch Ultra is rated to 100m. Recreational diving is regulated to 40m. The app follows the latter. It is unlikely your Casio would be rated for recreational diving beyond the same limits either

ashtonbaker 4y ago

I think this looks amazing for warm-water vacation divers - typically they are stuck with rental equipment, which usually means a cheap, dated computer on a bulky console. Having a well-designed UI will definitely improve these divers safety - the last boat dive I went on, an experienced diver blew past no-deco limits because he didn't understand his unfamiliar rental computer. That being said, I can't personally imagine taking the Apple Watch Ultra to, say, 80-90 feet if it's only rated to 130. It's just too expensive.

stetrain 4y ago
My understanding is the Apple Watch Ultra is physically rated to 100 meters / 328 feet. The 40 meters / 130 feet rating is for the dive computer functionality.
lolsoftware 4y ago
Slight clarification: the Apple Watch Ultra has a water resistance rating of 100m. The Oceanic+ app has a 130ft/40m limit because that's the recreational diving limit. [1]: https://support.apple.com/kb/SP879?viewlocale=en_IN&locale=en_IN#:~:text=Apple%20Watch%20Ultra%20has%20a,for%20diving%20below%2040%20meters https://support.apple.com/kb/SP879?viewlocale=en_IN&locale=e....
- ashtonbaker 4y ago
  Oh, cool! It looks like that's the limit of Apple's Depth app, as well, which is what I found when I searched, and assumed it was the limit of the watch. Well that's definitely better - I wonder what happens when you go under 130 feet, though. A dedicated dive computer would at least provide accurate information, rather than throwing you to the wolves because you exceeded some legal limit. Also on the plus side, some of the existing air pressure transmitters use bluetooth, so if they could get that working, they'd actually be one of the cheapest air-integrated computers on the market. (edit: they do not use bluetooth, they use low-frequency radio ~38khz) I think I'll stick with my Shearwater Peregrine though, pros and cons considered.
  - 4y ago

ddoolin 4y ago

So is there nothing showing tank air? Most of the newer dive computers have tank companions (dongles if you will) that connect wirelessly to display tank air levels. That feature is non-negotiable to me in a dive computer now.

gjsman-1000 4y ago

Sometimes my brain works so weird. When I first saw "Oceanic+," I thought it must be another offering like "TV+" or "Fitness+." I then wondered what it might be and my first thought, I'm not joking, was that this was going to be an ocean nature documentary subscription service to compete with National Geographic on Disney+. Dive computer? OK... that makes way more sense...

aynyc 4y ago

I haven't dived (dove?) in 10 years. Last gen dive computers are excellent, but super expensive. Before that, I just use a casio watch and gauges. That being said, unless regulations or recommendations have changed, you still need an analog backup gauges that usually have 3 (compass, depth and tank pressure) + extra regulator. So even if the watch decided to die, you are still safe. I just looked at the screen shots in the article, nothing that different than my old dive computer. If I go back to being a regular recreational diver, I probably would get that watch and app.

Kukumber 4y ago

threeseed 4y ago
You don't need to pay the full subscription. You just activate it when you're diving and then deactivate it when you're not. And having done quite a bit of diving with the Apple Watch it's worth every cent.

tiffanyh 4y ago

@dang The title should be renamed "Available today, the Oceanic+ app on Apple Watch Ultra" Because the current title of "Apple Introduces Oceanic+" implies this is a 1st party app from Apple, which it is not.

scarface74 4y ago
No part of the definition of “introduction” implies that it is a first party app.
- 9wzYQbTYsAIc 4y ago
  To introduce: “…; originate: introduced the new product in several test markets; ….” [1] [1] https://www.thefreedictionary.com/introduce https://www.thefreedictionary.com/introduce
  - scarface74 4y ago
    It still doesn’t imply it’s a first party product. I can “introduce Angular to my team”. That doesn’t mean I wrote Angular.
    - mattigames 4y ago
      "Google introduces Angular" does mean that (even if you didn't knew what Angular is beforehand)
      - scarface74 4y ago
        It absolutely doesn’t. People have been “introducing” other people for centuries. Where in any dictionary doesn’t imply any such thing? So if a consultant from McKinsey “introduces cloud best practices to company $x”, does that imply that McKinsey created AWS?
        mattigames 4y ago

belorn 4y ago

I can with confidence say that I would not trust a dive computer that is rated to a maximum of 40 meters. It would be a bit like owning a car where the breaks were rated for a maximum of 110 km/h. Sure, most of the time you might stay under that limit, but for safety equipment you do want some margins. If a person accidental loose buoyancy for a moment and end up at 41 meters, they could really end up in a terrible situation. The added stress, not being able to monitor ascent rate, and no information regarding NDL (the no decompression limit). Humans can't survive on their own under water. Visiting there require equipment designed for that purpose. They don't need to be expensive but they do need to do the job. A 90% functional diving equipment can easily result in 100% dead diver.

tyho 4y ago

I don't think this will be a useful dive computer for most people. When I first heard the Apple Watch would work as a dive computer I was very excited, but having spent some time thinking about it, and having done 20 dives since the watch was announced, I have changed my mind. The first problem is battery life. I didn't have to replace the battery on my computer for the 20 dives over a week I did recently. If I had gotten a low battery warning, I could have replaced the coin cell battery in five minutes. With the Apple Watch, I would be uncomfortable starting a dive with less than 80% battery, which means remembering to charge it before every dive. If I forget to charge it, then I cannot quickly replace the battery, and I cannot switch to a backup computer if I hadn't taken it with me on my previous dives as it wouldn't know my tissue loading. Forgetting to charge the watch before any dive would mean missing the dive. The 40m limit is not a good idea. I imagine Apple's legal department are forcing this one, but it's a really bad idea. I went slightly below 40m a few times last week, I know that breaks "the rules", but I know the risks and they honestly aren't that bad if you don't push things too far. Having my computer lock out, refuse to give me NDL times, depth info or deco stop info if needed is not a good idea, especially when you really need it at those depths. There is also no mention of nitrox, so I assume it's not supported. That would make this the only dive computer released in the last decade that doesn't support nitrox diving. Nobody who is interested in owning a dive computer will want a computer that doesn't support nitrox. The one good thing I see about this is the haptics. It's really easy to get alert fatigue underwater from other dive computers beeping around you. Haptics would be far better.

onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
It's not about being useful. It's about marketing to people that want to signal.
Terretta 4y ago
> With the Apple Watch, I would be uncomfortable starting a dive with less than 80% battery... You'd get over that quickly if you owned this watch. It stays above 80% all the time, with just a few minutes on a mag charge in AM, while you're showering for example, and a few minutes in the evening (during a TV show or video game, for example), even when using it all day for work notifications and all night as a sleep monitor. It goes 2 or 3 days without charge, and that's before their software update to get a multiple of that. Assuming a 30W+ charger brick, it's surprising how quickly it tops back to 80% ready to go another day or two. Workout mode doesn't burn much more, neither does dive. Your other takes could improve with actual use as well. Nitrox and gas config, for example, is on the 2nd to last and last screenshots of the watch app itself.

_l7dh 4y ago

I truly wonder. Why is Apple doing that? If I'm not mistaken, it is a small niche in terms of revenue. My hypothesis is that this is perhaps a new approach for marketing: find hobbies that correlate the most with the populations with the biggest potential revenue, taking into account the networking and demographic effects within such a population. Just throwing this off the top of my head. Bear with me :-).

jackdh 4y ago
Diving has a much larger market than you'd initially believe. For instance, consider all of watch brands which have basically created an entire company under the premise of diving.
the_other 4y ago
Everything about the Ultra model is like this. It's pure aspiration porn made physical. It worked really well for Apple in the '00s. Their computer hardware was expensive enough that most people wouldn't think to buy it over a similar PC. Today, Apple's phones, watches and tablets are much more commodity items (cue someone telling me the sales figures tell a different story). The economics are still largely the same now, but the perception of Apple hardware has changed. They use the XDR screen, the Mac Pro (the big boxy one) and now the Ultra series watch to create the sense of mystique.
idreyn 4y ago
I think that's basically right. They've been weaving "high-status outdoor adventuring" into their brand for a long time — think about the codenames High Sierra and Mavericks, or going to an Apple store and seeing a ski trip under planning in the sample iMessages. A big part of the way Apple signals their products as clean, healthy, and high-status is by depicting themselves as exactly that sort of people. (Not to imply that this is particularly disingenuous, but they know exactly what they're doing)
fundad 4y ago
Fashion is my simple answer. I think serving the niche well promotes sales among people with disposable income. People like it for looks.

raydiatian 4y ago

> Oceanic+ enables recreational scuba divers to take the watch they wear every day to previously unreachable depths — up to 40 meters, or 130 feet, to be exact This is perfect, as the limit for nitrox diving (ie the most frequently used mixture of gas for recreational dives) is a little over 130 ft.

maratc 4y ago

I have more than 500 dives under my weight belt, and I have a (regular) Apple watch, but I'm skeptical. First, there's no mention of Nitrox anywhere (except in a screenshot). Most of the serious folks use this mix (basically, air enriched with some more oxygen) for their dives, it's unclear if — or to what extent — this supports Nitrox. Second, there's no mention of the decompression algorithm they use. Buhlmann, Suunto RGBM, VPM are examples of algorithms where the assumptions about human physiology are backed by hundreds of thousands of dives, but what is driving this specific piece is kind of a mystery. As this device comes under "life support equipment" category, I would love to see more information about that. Third, battery life is a concern here, while it almost never is with dedicated dive computers. My main device requires a trip to Switzerland every 10-15 years, and my backup device is serviced locally every 3 years or so; having a "two full days battery life" somewhat pales in comparison. Finally, $10 a month is pretty expensive, especially when it comes on top of $700 down payment. Unclear what happens when you stop paying. I don't doubt that there are people who don't worry about that kind of money: the watch blogs are full with people discussing diving with their Rolexes and Omegas, but I have never seen anyone doing that in real world. 90% of the people use dive computers (owned or rented), and 90% of the rest use basic G-Shocks; you are lucky to see anyone with a mechanical timepiece (which almost always happens to be made by Seiko).

izacus 4y ago
I'm pretty sure this will be used by people who go on a week of dives every half a year or so (those are most people I meet in touristy dive places these days) and not by tech or nitrox divers. For those people it makes more sense - no need to carry another dive computer, no need to buy another device and the battery will be just fine for two/three dives in a day. More serious people will still get their Shearwaters/Garmins and other devices. Although, Apple might cause those companies to go out of business eventually and you'll have to buy their subscription for your sport in a few years anyway :)
- maratc 4y ago
  > For those people it makes more sense $80 a year can get you a rental computer for 8 days, and you don't have to worry about its battery — or you get another piece. > you'll have to buy their subscription for your sport in a few years anyway My Spyder (from 2001) will be working just fine long after my Apple Watch will become a deadweight. As there is no subscription, no online service, and no monthly payment, it could also survive the bankruptcy of its manufacturer.

kh_hk 4y ago

This might be a pivotal moment on subscription based hardware. Apple is selling their hardware as a software platform _to_ companies that already sell their hardware. Will this force other companies selling dive computers to adapt and also use publish an app for Apple's platform? As a diver it's clear to me that the target audience are future divers. We might delude ourselves on the pros and cons of our current dive computer, models and so on. But I am sure someone entering the sport will consider this along the other options. My personal opinion, a big majority of recreational (shallow) diving does not even require a dive computer and it all comes into LARPing territory. It's good to know your depth and the time you spent underwater, that's all. I have seen people wearing a +1k USD dive computer diving at most <20m. Of course it's none of my business how they decide to part with their money. This much money will give you a very nice dive computer, albeit terribly complex and completely overkill for most of the rec. diving. If someone is willing to spend that much on a dive computer for rec diving, I guess an apple watch is money better spent? Let's just acknowledge that a Shearwater Perdix is a tough sell to someone that wants to spend this much but dives very very occasionally and shallow. I am just sad about the subscription model and the implications this might have if/when it proves successful.