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> still prefer to hire one gender over the other for some functions, and especially for executive roles Have you considered maybe they hire based on qualificat

> still prefer to hire one gender over the other for some functions, and especially for executive roles Have you considered maybe they hire based on qualifications only and not gender? There are 2 implications from such thing: - genders have different preferences in work and do not apply for some jobs (not just CEO, but also coal miners have even larger gender imbalance) - some people do not want to make the insane effort to become a CEO. Men usually are the one sacrificing a lot for some goals (including life on the battlefields), women tend to be wiser and think if it is worth

mcv 4y ago
> Have you considered maybe they hire based on qualifications only and not gender? If you're only hiring from one specific gender, you're most likely not hiring based on qualifications, or the qualifications you're hiring on include gender. This at least has been the case with most single-gender boards. Now if you can show that there really are not any qualified women available at all, of course you should hire another man for the job. But I think it's not unreasonable to expect companies to demonstrate that first, and not simply allow them to blindly use it as an excuse for gender discrimination. > genders have different preferences in work and do not apply for some jobs (not just CEO, but also coal miners have even larger gender imbalance) True, but there's no shortage of women complaining about a glass ceiling. The women are there for the CEO jobs. I don't see a lot of women complaining nobody will consider them for a coal mining job. > some people do not want to make the insane effort to become a CEO. Men usually are the one sacrificing a lot for some goals (including life on the battlefields), women tend to be wiser and think if it is worth This is all baseless assumption to justify gender discrimination. Women sacrifice plenty.
- WithinReason 4y ago
  > I don't see a lot of women complaining nobody will consider them for a coal mining job. There is an absolutely enormous gender difference in preferences for a coal mining job (unless you think it's due to discrimination). Could preferences also explain the differences in some other jobs, like CEO? How many women vs. how many men want to become CEO? Is it the same number? Saying that some women want to is not an argument, it's about relative numbers.
  - techdragon 4y ago
    Just think a little deeper… How much are these preferences based on the sort of people already working in a career/location/company? I live in Western Australia and it’s been a rather big thing recently looking into massive systemic sexual and non sexual, harassment and assault throughout the entire industry… because it was a “blokes job” for so long and they are now grappling with the fact women want these sorts of well paid jobs too. Women are even on record by multiple employers as statistically better drivers of the large vehicles throughout the industry, they want women. But we have been hearing stories of women being warned off by other female staff, of people leaving or deciding not to take promotions not because they don’t want the job… but because of the other people. Correlation is not causation, just because we see an effect of women not wanting a job does not allow us to attribute it to any one cause without investigation and evidence!
    - techdragon 4y ago
      Tiny addendum since I missed the edit window. I was referring to the mining industry. For extra context… it’s sort of telling that I didn’t notice that word missing. That’s how pervasive the mining industry is in Western Australia, it’s a huge percentage of our economy, and has literally shaped this city (Perth) sociologically speaking. I will happily argue till I’m out of breath my theory that Perth’s world leading level of suburban sprawl is almost entirely due to the significant percentage of “fly in, fly out” (FIFO) jobs, if you only commute once or twice a month to and from the airport; you give zero fucks about that commute being one two or even three hours drive… not even exaggerating, there are people who take multi hour regional trains or drive 1.5 to 3 hours in slow traffic to the airport on the days they fly out… hours heading to Perth airport to fly out to the farthest reaches of WA to did valuable rocks from the ground. This entire city had been irreparably harmed by the “FIFO lifestyle” and its just such a part of the culture at this point I do not have any expectations that we can turn this ship around … valuable jobs for men and women that in years past paid off houses in under a decade, but required you to spend half to two thirds of your time away from that house have distorted social normal to a ludicrous degree in so many weird ways… it’s sort of reminiscent of the weirdness of several other cities like Phoenix Arizona, and Los Angeles, and middle eastern cities with the migrant workers, but as with every city it’s also entirely it’s own. But this is just context. Don’t let it distract from my point about how an entire industry full of attractive jobs that women want to work in, has been pushing away women due to systemic culture issues.
- yucky 4y ago
  > If you're only hiring from one specific gender, you're most likely not hiring based on qualifications, or the qualifications you're hiring on include gender. This isn't true though. For instance, look at professional sports leagues like the NBA, MLB, NFL etc. Ability is a thing and genders are different.
  - mcv 4y ago
    Sure, but we're talking executive boards here, not sports. They usually involve a lot less jumping, running and lifting.
    - yucky 4y ago
      OK electricians, plumbers, roofers, HVAC repair, sanitation workers, utility linemen...

mcv 4y ago

> Have you considered maybe they hire based on qualifications only and not gender? If you're only hiring from one specific gender, you're most likely not hiring based on qualifications, or the qualifications you're hiring on include gender. This at least has been the case with most single-gender boards. Now if you can show that there really are not any qualified women available at all, of course you should hire another man for the job. But I think it's not unreasonable to expect companies to demonstrate that first, and not simply allow them to blindly use it as an excuse for gender discrimination. > genders have different preferences in work and do not apply for some jobs (not just CEO, but also coal miners have even larger gender imbalance) True, but there's no shortage of women complaining about a glass ceiling. The women are there for the CEO jobs. I don't see a lot of women complaining nobody will consider them for a coal mining job. > some people do not want to make the insane effort to become a CEO. Men usually are the one sacrificing a lot for some goals (including life on the battlefields), women tend to be wiser and think if it is worth This is all baseless assumption to justify gender discrimination. Women sacrifice plenty.

WithinReason 4y ago
> I don't see a lot of women complaining nobody will consider them for a coal mining job. There is an absolutely enormous gender difference in preferences for a coal mining job (unless you think it's due to discrimination). Could preferences also explain the differences in some other jobs, like CEO? How many women vs. how many men want to become CEO? Is it the same number? Saying that some women want to is not an argument, it's about relative numbers.
- techdragon 4y ago
  Just think a little deeper… How much are these preferences based on the sort of people already working in a career/location/company? I live in Western Australia and it’s been a rather big thing recently looking into massive systemic sexual and non sexual, harassment and assault throughout the entire industry… because it was a “blokes job” for so long and they are now grappling with the fact women want these sorts of well paid jobs too. Women are even on record by multiple employers as statistically better drivers of the large vehicles throughout the industry, they want women. But we have been hearing stories of women being warned off by other female staff, of people leaving or deciding not to take promotions not because they don’t want the job… but because of the other people. Correlation is not causation, just because we see an effect of women not wanting a job does not allow us to attribute it to any one cause without investigation and evidence!
  - techdragon 4y ago
    Tiny addendum since I missed the edit window. I was referring to the mining industry. For extra context… it’s sort of telling that I didn’t notice that word missing. That’s how pervasive the mining industry is in Western Australia, it’s a huge percentage of our economy, and has literally shaped this city (Perth) sociologically speaking. I will happily argue till I’m out of breath my theory that Perth’s world leading level of suburban sprawl is almost entirely due to the significant percentage of “fly in, fly out” (FIFO) jobs, if you only commute once or twice a month to and from the airport; you give zero fucks about that commute being one two or even three hours drive… not even exaggerating, there are people who take multi hour regional trains or drive 1.5 to 3 hours in slow traffic to the airport on the days they fly out… hours heading to Perth airport to fly out to the farthest reaches of WA to did valuable rocks from the ground. This entire city had been irreparably harmed by the “FIFO lifestyle” and its just such a part of the culture at this point I do not have any expectations that we can turn this ship around … valuable jobs for men and women that in years past paid off houses in under a decade, but required you to spend half to two thirds of your time away from that house have distorted social normal to a ludicrous degree in so many weird ways… it’s sort of reminiscent of the weirdness of several other cities like Phoenix Arizona, and Los Angeles, and middle eastern cities with the migrant workers, but as with every city it’s also entirely it’s own. But this is just context. Don’t let it distract from my point about how an entire industry full of attractive jobs that women want to work in, has been pushing away women due to systemic culture issues.
yucky 4y ago
> If you're only hiring from one specific gender, you're most likely not hiring based on qualifications, or the qualifications you're hiring on include gender. This isn't true though. For instance, look at professional sports leagues like the NBA, MLB, NFL etc. Ability is a thing and genders are different.
- mcv 4y ago
  Sure, but we're talking executive boards here, not sports. They usually involve a lot less jumping, running and lifting.
  - yucky 4y ago
    OK electricians, plumbers, roofers, HVAC repair, sanitation workers, utility linemen...