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I have a question totally unrelated to the post, but that I finally decided to ask because of it. In the tweet by Simon Willson at the top of the blog post, he

I have a question totally unrelated to the post, but that I finally decided to ask because of it. In the tweet by Simon Willson at the top of the blog post, he uses the word "against": Started experimenting with "git notes" against a new repo [...] English is not my native tongue, but I always take the use of this preposition as if to state an adversarial relationship between two things, a relationship of opposition between them. Therefore, sometimes I find it odd the way it is used in programming-related context. A few examples of what I mean: - "to program against a standard" instead of "to program based on a standard" - "to match against a pattern" instead of "to match the pattern onto the thing" - "to compare against a list" instead of "to compare with items from a list" - "to file an issue against the repository" instead of "file an issue at the repository" It is possible (and very likely) that my proposed meanings are grammatically or even semantically wrong, but I feel that "against" is being correctly used in these examples because I can see a slight opposition between the two things in them, and I can understand that some people might even find an adversarial relationship there. However, in the specific case of Simon Willson's tweet, the use of "against" sounds even more off because I fail to see a repository and Git notes as being adversaries or opposite to each other. So the question is: is only me, as non-native speaker, that finds this usage (not only Willson's, but the examples too) a bit weird, or do native speaker also have similar sentiments?

Someone 4y ago
Not a native speaker, but “Against” has many meanings, not all implying adversity/competition. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/against https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/against mentions, for example, “compared or contrasted with”, which covers the search and compare examples you gave.
adamweaver 4y ago
Against has a rare meaning of “adjacency”. We say that we lean something against another, for example. English is weird.
bacon_waffle 4y ago
I'm a native English speaker and agree that it is a slightly weird corner of the language - thanks for asking! "Against" can also mean something like "adjacent to" or "in contact with", like "let's put the chair against this wall".
- luispauloml 4y ago
  Thank you for answering. Also, I did check the dictionary before asked. As others comments pointed out, it does have a meaning of adjacency or contrast, and I guessed that this is where this usage was coming from. But still, even with this meaning, I feel a bit of an adversarial meaning. "Contrast" itself is adversarial, right? Because it comes from comparison. For instance, in "the chair against the wall", I can see the chair exerting force against the all, and the wall reacting to it with equal intensity and opposite direction (Newton's Third Law). Yet, in Willson's tweet, I can't imagine anything like that coming off of a git repository and git notes, hence my comment. As an addendum, my first language is Portuguese, and a direct translation for this word is "contra"¹ which fits all the meanings for "against" listed in Merriam-Webster, except the adjacency one. I've never seen "contra" being used for this meaning in the wild, and I guess this is the reason I feel a bit off about it and never used it myself for that meaning when communicating in English. ¹ https://dicionario.priberam.org/contra https://dicionario.priberam.org/contra
  - jhrmnn 4y ago
    The same with Czech (and I assume all Slavic languages?). Would be interesting to track the etymological development of this meaning.
  - martopix 4y ago
    I didn't understand if in the end you can say "contra o muro" in portuguese (about the chair). In Italian, you can.
    - brunno 4y ago
      You can say that in portuguese, it's completely correct but it seems to be much less used than "junto ao muro" as in "next to the wall/adjacent to the wall". Even being correct in this use, "contra" is a word very charged with adversarial context. Maybe that's the source of the strangeness the thread OP feels about the use of "against".
juped 4y ago
Your examples: > - "to program against a standard" instead of "to program based on a standard" both idiomatically correct enough > - "to match against a pattern" instead of "to match the pattern onto the thing" the second one reads very strangely and I would not be sure what you meant, first is _very_ idiomatically correct > - "to compare against a list" instead of "to compare with items from a list" second one is a little strange in the sense of feeling like too many words > - "to file an issue against the repository" instead of "file an issue at the repository" second one feels wrong, first is correct but a little weird, "on" is probably what I would write; you can also file "with" if it is a bureaucracy, you file tax forms "with" the irs
Aeolun 4y ago
I think the usage of against in that way is normally correct, but: > starting to experiment with x against a new repo Is still weird. It’s not incorrect, but it feels like the author should have used ‘in’ here.
andyferris 4y ago
When it's used to describe a process it can be a physical kind of analogy: - "to push your hand against a wall" - "to press a grinder against some metal" - "to push a mold against the clay" There's a Newton's third law kind-of thing going on, where two things push against each other, and affect each other. For "to program against a standard" I am imagining some malleable computer code being pushed against an unyielding form or mold until it conforms to the intended shape (i.e. standard). A similar deal as TDD (test-driven development). It seems to me that the second and third examples are forms of "compare with and contrast against" the latter being the "relationship of opposition" you mention. Thinking aloud, "to file an issue against a repository" grammatically resembles "to file a lawsuit against a person" and is similar in that you are registering a complaint against some problem.

Someone 4y ago

Not a native speaker, but “Against” has many meanings, not all implying adversity/competition. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/against https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/against mentions, for example, “compared or contrasted with”, which covers the search and compare examples you gave.

adamweaver 4y ago

Against has a rare meaning of “adjacency”. We say that we lean something against another, for example. English is weird.

bacon_waffle 4y ago

I'm a native English speaker and agree that it is a slightly weird corner of the language - thanks for asking! "Against" can also mean something like "adjacent to" or "in contact with", like "let's put the chair against this wall".

luispauloml 4y ago
Thank you for answering. Also, I did check the dictionary before asked. As others comments pointed out, it does have a meaning of adjacency or contrast, and I guessed that this is where this usage was coming from. But still, even with this meaning, I feel a bit of an adversarial meaning. "Contrast" itself is adversarial, right? Because it comes from comparison. For instance, in "the chair against the wall", I can see the chair exerting force against the all, and the wall reacting to it with equal intensity and opposite direction (Newton's Third Law). Yet, in Willson's tweet, I can't imagine anything like that coming off of a git repository and git notes, hence my comment. As an addendum, my first language is Portuguese, and a direct translation for this word is "contra"¹ which fits all the meanings for "against" listed in Merriam-Webster, except the adjacency one. I've never seen "contra" being used for this meaning in the wild, and I guess this is the reason I feel a bit off about it and never used it myself for that meaning when communicating in English. ¹ https://dicionario.priberam.org/contra https://dicionario.priberam.org/contra
- jhrmnn 4y ago
  The same with Czech (and I assume all Slavic languages?). Would be interesting to track the etymological development of this meaning.
- martopix 4y ago
  I didn't understand if in the end you can say "contra o muro" in portuguese (about the chair). In Italian, you can.
  - brunno 4y ago
    You can say that in portuguese, it's completely correct but it seems to be much less used than "junto ao muro" as in "next to the wall/adjacent to the wall". Even being correct in this use, "contra" is a word very charged with adversarial context. Maybe that's the source of the strangeness the thread OP feels about the use of "against".

juped 4y ago

Your examples: > - "to program against a standard" instead of "to program based on a standard" both idiomatically correct enough > - "to match against a pattern" instead of "to match the pattern onto the thing" the second one reads very strangely and I would not be sure what you meant, first is _very_ idiomatically correct > - "to compare against a list" instead of "to compare with items from a list" second one is a little strange in the sense of feeling like too many words > - "to file an issue against the repository" instead of "file an issue at the repository" second one feels wrong, first is correct but a little weird, "on" is probably what I would write; you can also file "with" if it is a bureaucracy, you file tax forms "with" the irs

Aeolun 4y ago

I think the usage of against in that way is normally correct, but: > starting to experiment with x against a new repo Is still weird. It’s not incorrect, but it feels like the author should have used ‘in’ here.

andyferris 4y ago

When it's used to describe a process it can be a physical kind of analogy: - "to push your hand against a wall" - "to press a grinder against some metal" - "to push a mold against the clay" There's a Newton's third law kind-of thing going on, where two things push against each other, and affect each other. For "to program against a standard" I am imagining some malleable computer code being pushed against an unyielding form or mold until it conforms to the intended shape (i.e. standard). A similar deal as TDD (test-driven development). It seems to me that the second and third examples are forms of "compare with and contrast against" the latter being the "relationship of opposition" you mention. Thinking aloud, "to file an issue against a repository" grammatically resembles "to file a lawsuit against a person" and is similar in that you are registering a complaint against some problem.