29 ms·

The UK wages are laughably low, so these corporations are doing no favours. The still enjoy record profits and their board members probably laugh that serfs eve

The UK wages are laughably low, so these corporations are doing no favours. The still enjoy record profits and their board members probably laugh that serfs even think that these corporations are being so "generous".

yellow_lead 4y ago
Genuine question though - isn't there some tradeoff for this like labor benefits (vacation, healthcare, etc)?
- sokoloff 4y ago
  If you had 25 days of PTO per year before, I would view having 20 days per year as the equivalent, but others will no doubt disagree.
- youngtaff 4y ago
  Earlier this year I went from a 5 day week to 4 days spread over 5 with no loss of PTO / benefits etc. Some people were already on a 4 day week and they were essentially given a 25% pay rise instead
- VLM 4y ago
  I've worked a couple places like this and the real argument is "thanksgiving in the USA is always a thursday which is unfair to the wed-sat team" if they're forced to work or "unfair to the sun-wed team" if they wanted to work for triple overtime holiday pay and similar arguments about election day always being a Tuesday there are five federal holidays IIRC that are off on Mondays but no federal holidays on fri or sat, etc. Usually whining problems were solved by "this system has been here since your grandparents and you signed up for it so suck it up or transfer teams or quit" Technically the system was only there for their grandparents in operations and finance always worked 9-5 m-f until thirty years ago so it is new out of operations, but whatever. The vacation problem was solved by providing "weeks" to everyone along with the interesting legal fiction that everyone worked ten hours so our "weeks" were implemented using "hours". So new employees got "two weeks" which on paper were implemented as 80 hours. These are all very old issues in 24x7 operations environments including outside IT/tech/computer-stuff. The only "innovation" is when the payroll clerk starts doing 4x10s like she's a front line nurse, or the graphics artist in marketing starts doing 4x10s 3rd shift like he's a field service tech.
- tialaramex 4y ago
  The UK has a National Health Service for all its permanent residents, which is over-stretched right now because people keep voting for Tories who claim to cherish it but won't fund it (and divert funding to their pet projects). Also COVID burned out medics at a high rate and Brexit made it harder to attract foreign medics to work here. UK workers are (with some narrow exceptions) entitled to 5.6 weeks per year of paid leave. Employers can choose to make you take some of this leave when they want it taken rather than when you want it, including the Bank Holidays (national holidays). In a tech job you are almost certainly going to get 5.6 weeks plus the Bank Holidays and maybe more. It's calculated as 5.6 weeks because logically if I work 5 days per week, and you work 4 days per week, and our employer gives us both 20 days of leave to take whenever we like, for you that would be five weeks whereas for me it's only four weeks which isn't the same. 5.6 weeks will be 28 full days for a full time Monday-Friday office worker, but only 14 full days for their colleague who only works Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday morning in a job share.
dazc 4y ago
Only two companies were mentioned, Atom Bank and Awin - neither of which I would describe as 'corporations'? I think it's a gimmick that some businesses will use for publicity purposes and nothing more. Anyone looking for a bit of an SEO boost for their website can feel free to jump on board...
- sokoloff 4y ago
  What would you describe as a corporation then?
- logifail 4y ago
  > I think it's a gimmick that some businesses will use for publicity purposes and nothing more Google "theguardian four day week" and you'll see this outlet has form on the topic. Q: Can you work a four-day week at full pay if you're employed by Guardian Media Group?
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    The Guardian also reports on war. Does this mean you can go to war for the Guardian?
    - logifail 4y ago
      Dozens of articles but no genuine explanation of the employer's end of this issue. If the Guardian newspaper were to let all its staffers take every Friday off without any reduction in pay, I wholeheartedly agree that the staff would be much happier and more productive too (at least on Mondays to Thursdays, when they're actually working). However, wouldn't the newspaper EITHER need to cancel Saturday's edition completely, thus losing a big chunk of revenue, OR employ more part-time staff to cover the missing work on Fridays - and out of interest, where would the money for those additional fractional salaries come from? Are we seriously suggesting that the product on Monday to Thursday becomes so much better due to the happier staff that consumers are going to pay more for it? <boggle> "Details", I can almost hear you say :)
amelius 4y ago
Yeah, and now they save on heating also.

yellow_lead 4y ago

Genuine question though - isn't there some tradeoff for this like labor benefits (vacation, healthcare, etc)?

sokoloff 4y ago
If you had 25 days of PTO per year before, I would view having 20 days per year as the equivalent, but others will no doubt disagree.
youngtaff 4y ago
Earlier this year I went from a 5 day week to 4 days spread over 5 with no loss of PTO / benefits etc. Some people were already on a 4 day week and they were essentially given a 25% pay rise instead
VLM 4y ago
I've worked a couple places like this and the real argument is "thanksgiving in the USA is always a thursday which is unfair to the wed-sat team" if they're forced to work or "unfair to the sun-wed team" if they wanted to work for triple overtime holiday pay and similar arguments about election day always being a Tuesday there are five federal holidays IIRC that are off on Mondays but no federal holidays on fri or sat, etc. Usually whining problems were solved by "this system has been here since your grandparents and you signed up for it so suck it up or transfer teams or quit" Technically the system was only there for their grandparents in operations and finance always worked 9-5 m-f until thirty years ago so it is new out of operations, but whatever. The vacation problem was solved by providing "weeks" to everyone along with the interesting legal fiction that everyone worked ten hours so our "weeks" were implemented using "hours". So new employees got "two weeks" which on paper were implemented as 80 hours. These are all very old issues in 24x7 operations environments including outside IT/tech/computer-stuff. The only "innovation" is when the payroll clerk starts doing 4x10s like she's a front line nurse, or the graphics artist in marketing starts doing 4x10s 3rd shift like he's a field service tech.
tialaramex 4y ago
The UK has a National Health Service for all its permanent residents, which is over-stretched right now because people keep voting for Tories who claim to cherish it but won't fund it (and divert funding to their pet projects). Also COVID burned out medics at a high rate and Brexit made it harder to attract foreign medics to work here. UK workers are (with some narrow exceptions) entitled to 5.6 weeks per year of paid leave. Employers can choose to make you take some of this leave when they want it taken rather than when you want it, including the Bank Holidays (national holidays). In a tech job you are almost certainly going to get 5.6 weeks plus the Bank Holidays and maybe more. It's calculated as 5.6 weeks because logically if I work 5 days per week, and you work 4 days per week, and our employer gives us both 20 days of leave to take whenever we like, for you that would be five weeks whereas for me it's only four weeks which isn't the same. 5.6 weeks will be 28 full days for a full time Monday-Friday office worker, but only 14 full days for their colleague who only works Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday morning in a job share.

dazc 4y ago

Only two companies were mentioned, Atom Bank and Awin - neither of which I would describe as 'corporations'? I think it's a gimmick that some businesses will use for publicity purposes and nothing more. Anyone looking for a bit of an SEO boost for their website can feel free to jump on board...

sokoloff 4y ago
What would you describe as a corporation then?
logifail 4y ago
> I think it's a gimmick that some businesses will use for publicity purposes and nothing more Google "theguardian four day week" and you'll see this outlet has form on the topic. Q: Can you work a four-day week at full pay if you're employed by Guardian Media Group?
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  The Guardian also reports on war. Does this mean you can go to war for the Guardian?
  - logifail 4y ago
    Dozens of articles but no genuine explanation of the employer's end of this issue. If the Guardian newspaper were to let all its staffers take every Friday off without any reduction in pay, I wholeheartedly agree that the staff would be much happier and more productive too (at least on Mondays to Thursdays, when they're actually working). However, wouldn't the newspaper EITHER need to cancel Saturday's edition completely, thus losing a big chunk of revenue, OR employ more part-time staff to cover the missing work on Fridays - and out of interest, where would the money for those additional fractional salaries come from? Are we seriously suggesting that the product on Monday to Thursday becomes so much better due to the happier staff that consumers are going to pay more for it? <boggle> "Details", I can almost hear you say :)

amelius 4y ago

Yeah, and now they save on heating also.