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I've helped out with some plumbing work in an older house, and it's pretty fascinating to see the progression of technologies. 100 years ago, most drain pipes
by blincoln 4y ago
I've helped out with some plumbing work in an older house, and it's pretty fascinating to see the progression of technologies.
100 years ago, most drain pipes in the US were massive cast-iron pieces with no threads at all. They were mated together, then the joint was filled with a compound called oakum. To really hold it together, the plumber would pour molten lead on top of the oakum. Just taking that stuff apart is a lot of work. I can't imagine putting it together as well, especially for 40 hours a week.
I agree with the author's dismay about threaded fittings, but 100% disagree about PTFE tape versus thread sealant. PTFE tape is garbage. If you use thread sealer the way it's supposed to be used (put on a decent amount, then thread the pieces together with the "nudge and a grunt" technique instead of cranking down on it with a huge amount of force), it will seal perfectly almost every time, and any minor leaks can usually be fixed by tightening the joint slightly. If that's not enough, just take it apart and redo it. I've rarely had to try twice, and never three times.
Not sure about British threaded pipe, but NPT threaded pipe actually doesn't benefit from being tightened beyond a certain point because of the way the threads are designed. I redid the seals and some of the fittings[1] on all the antique hot water radiators in a house because no contractor within a day's travel would work on antique hydronic heating systems. Good quality thread sealant, no garbagey PTFE tape, no leaks, even in constant use.
That having been said, modern pipes and fittings make things dead simple. PVC (or ABS, but PVC is nicer IMO) for drains, push-to-connect fittings for water lines (I like PEX, but I know opinions vary). No lead, no torches. Easy to cut with hand tools. Lightweight. Anyone who's interested can probably do at least basic work with modern pipes.
[1] https://youtube.com/watch?v=MeHiE-j1KuQ https://youtube.com/watch?v=MeHiE-j1KuQ
- blincoln 4y agoJust to be clear, I'm not trying to discount the skill and knowledge of professional plumbers. It's an incredibly complex field (especially since they need to be familiar with decades of different pipe technology), and usually involves working in filthy parts of the house no one else wants to go into. They deserve every penny.
- MomoXenosaga 4y agoNormally the market is supposed to correct these things but sadly we've created a culture that looks down on physical labour. Now there is a small group that can charge whatever they want.
- bathtub365 4y agoIs the market not supposed to reflect culture?
- ElevenLathe 4y agoThis is an outdated ideology. Now the market is meant to define correctness. Deviation from the perfect wisdom of the market is the only form of sin.
- toast0 4y agoThey can't charge that much or people will do their own plumbing. It's fussy, but most routine things aren't too hard to do one step at a time. Sometimes you get a new faucet with an internal leak though, experience might have helped diagnose that without taking everything apart 20 times. Sometimes there's a big job like replacing a lateral, which is yeah, time to hire a pro.
- jimnotgym 4y agoIn the UK gas work is regulated so only a registered plumber can do it.
- sacrosancty 4y agoIn New Zealand, water work is regulated so only a licensed plumber can do it. The prime minister was once investigated by the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board for installing her own toilet. Her punishment was having to apologize :P
- dsfyu404ed 4y ago
- TEP_Kim_Il_Sung 4y agohemp fiber > PTFE tape
- blincoln 4y agoFor sure. Those oakum + lead joints were problem-free a century after they were installed. How many of us can expect that from the things we do at work? The only reason some of that pipe needed to be replaced was that it was fused (by rust) to mid-20th-century galvanized pipe that had rusted completely shut.
- dotancohen 4y agoThose lead joints were leaching lead into the water. If it was a supply pipe, as opposed to a drain, then people were ingesting that lead. It needed to be replaced whether it was leaking or not.
- blincoln 4y agoIt was just the drain pipe system that was built that way (at least in the house I helped out with). All of the supply lines were galvanized steel, replaced with PEX.
- jaggederest 4y agoThe lead in those joints never touches liquid. It's a sealant on the back of the oakum, which is what does the actual water contacting. Also, nearly all water supplies (municipal, at least) are pH adjusted to be slightly basic, which causes lead to form lead carbonates and oxides, which is (basically) insoluble in cold water. Still good policy to replace lead supply lines, but not a crisis unless you allow your water quality to fluctuate (ala Flint or a number of other US cities, sadly)
- Scoundreller 4y agoMore recently, beyond pH control, cities are doing orthophosphte corrosion control. Nearly universal in UK but hit and miss in other places. https://www.haldimandcounty.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Orthophosphate-Info-Sheet.pdf https://www.haldimandcounty.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Or... A big source of lead can be recently sweated copper lines (takes a while for the corrosion control to coat it), but lead solder isn’t supposed to be in potable use anymore. And old fixtures! Even newer “lead-free” fixtures aren’t 0% lead. https://www.epa.gov/sdwa/questions-and-answers-about-final-lead-free-rule https://www.epa.gov/sdwa/questions-and-answers-about-final-l...
- blincoln 4y agoAlso, I should mention that I've used PTFE tape without any issues for air tool connections. It's just for plumbing - where even a slow, tiny leak can cause massive damage - where I think it's a terrible choice.
- scotty79 4y agoIt's perfectly usable but you need to wrap a lot of it. If you wrap so long that you can barely make out a thread underneeth you can have a good seal lasting decades even if you don't screw the thread in completely. On steel pipes and fittings obviously. Plastic ones might crack. Also hemp fiber requires bit more practice and leverage but it's really good.
- Tijdreiziger 4y ago> To really hold it together, the plumber would pour molten lead on top of the oakum. This is pretty interesting, because plumbers are called 'lead-pourers' (loodgieters) in Dutch, and I had always wondered why.
- skeptical_dog 4y agoThe english word, too, is derived from the Latin for lead: plumbum.
- Scoundreller 4y agoIt’s not called Pb for nothing!
- beerandt 4y agoExcept the meaning is to plumb, as in to level, as in to get water flowing downhill. The lead refers to the (lead) plumb bob used to determine the direction of vertical and therefore what's level.
- robocat 4y agohttps://etymology.en-academic.com/27822/plumber https://etymology.en-academic.com/27822/plumber https://etymology.en-academic.com/27820/plumb https://etymology.en-academic.com/27820/plumb It appears you are wrong, and the person you are replying to was correct. Perhaps when baldly contradicting someone, you could make some effort to back up your opinion.
- beerandt 4y agoThe first 2 meanings of plumb from the site you link is: https://etymology.en-academic.com/27820/plumb https://etymology.en-academic.com/27820/plumb plumb plumb {{11}}plumb (adj.) "perpendicular, vertical," mid-15c., from PLUMB (Cf. plumb) (n.). The notion of "exact measurement" led to extended sense of "completely, downright" (1748), sometimes spelled plump or plunk. {{12}}plumb (n.) c.1300, "lead hung on a string to show the vertical line," from O.Fr. plombe, plomme "sounding lead," from L.L. plumba, originally plural of L. plumbum "lead," the metal, of unknown origin, related to Gk. molybdos "lead" Neither have anything to do with pouring molten lead. Only measuring the vertical. The purpose of finding the vertical is to determine the horizontal in installing sloped pipe.
- cmclaughlin 4y ago> I like PEX, but I know opinions vary What’s not to like about PEX?
- radlad 4y agoI believe it's less durable than alternatives.
- Scoundreller 4y agoThere’s definitely a “right” way and a “wrong” way to do it. Having each fixture connection being a “home run” without any fittings between source and destination really reduces a lot of vulnerabilities. Having a central manifold that lets you easily turn off any tap is nice too. A condo building I lived in did something wrong (I suspect) either a bad batch of PEX, or more likely, a batch that sat in the sun for a while, leading to multiple failures of hot water return lines in few years that were a mystery to pin down.
- frosted-flakes 4y agoHome run plumbing also means a lot of pipes in the walls, so you end up with 20x more pipes in the walls and ceiling than is actually necessary, and 20+ valves, which are often made of plastic instead of brass because otherwise costs would balloon. In any case, the fittings aren't the weak point, the pipe is; a properly crimped joint or expansion joint will never leak. And often it's impossible to have no fittings on a run of pipe anyway. In my opinion, traditional trunk and branch plumbing is far more flexible and just as reliable. It also allows for a hot water recirculation loop, which is impossible with home-run plumbing.
- iancmceachern 4y agoAlso using the compression fittings with a good crimping tool, not the push to connect fittings IMO is more durable and reliable.
- bluGill 4y agoActually pex is probably the most durable. Water is corrosive and will slowly dissolve metal pipes . Pex has zero UV resistance though, sp if exposed to sun at all it is the least durable.
- baybal2 4y ago
- btbuildem 4y agoTeflon tape is a lubricant, it's not meant to seal the joints. So for example if you're screwing a shower head "hockey stick" pipe into a drop ear elbow in the wall, and it stops at a weird angle instead of pointing down -- use PTFE tape on the threads to make them slide against the ones in the fitting more easily, it'll turn further. To seal a NPT-threaded joint, use pipe dope (it's both a lubricant and a sealant).