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Huawei singlehandedly destroyed Canada's Nortel Networks through espionage and sabotage. The CIA did an analysis and discovered that Huawei was dumping wireles

Huawei singlehandedly destroyed Canada's Nortel Networks through espionage and sabotage. The CIA did an analysis and discovered that Huawei was dumping wireless equipment to small wireless providers in areas around US military basis at a loss. At the very least, the ability to disrupt communication of those military bases were easily achievable.

Matl 4y ago
> The CIA did an analysis I had my doubts, but not after the CIA said it's true.
- proxyon 4y ago
  I was going to say whatever the CIA says assume the exact opposite. These guys literally invented the word misinformation.
flumpcakes 4y ago
Nortel networks haven't been around for nearly a decade. I've seen lots of news about 5G/Huaewi and 'core networks' only in the recent years in western countries (UK/US mainly). However, I haven't seen anything published that really reflects new risks/major backdoored products. I wouldn't 100% trust anything built in China, but there must be some reason people are only taking action now? Unless it's just "better late than never" response after years of this.
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  People are taking action now because the West spent decades underestimating China, probably for xenophobic reasons. I'm willing to bet a lot of people assumed they weren't as capable as westerners and now it can't be denied. IMO, it was a classic mistake of underestimating a potential rival while stroking our own egos about how smart, capable and powerful we are in comparison. Reality finally trumped hubris.
  - seydor 4y ago
    in what sense is a rival?
    - SSJPython 4y ago
      A rival for hegemony in the Asia-Pacific (APAC) region. The current hegemon in this region is the US. It is the strongest APAC power by far due to its numerous military bases as well as its network of strong allies (Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South Korea). China seeks to displace the US as the hegemon in APAC. Naturally, the current hegemon doesn't take too kindly to that. So they view China as a rival.
      - seydor 4y ago
        What about the rest of the West
        SSJPython 4y ago
        What about it? The US is also the hegemon in Europe. The "West" just means the US and its network of alliances. Other Western countries may want good relations with China, but they need to take US views into account because the US bankrolls their defense and is also a very important trade partner. Large, strong countries do what they want and small, weak countries do what they must. That's the way it is and the way it's always been.
        seydor 4y ago
        Don't you think that 's a bit too arrogant? Why should germany support the US domination over Japan, when all they want is industrial materials through the indo-pacific route. I think the world was more fair during cold war, having 2 superpowers pushed both of them to keep each other in check. This one state world, seems worse
        rgbrenner 4y ago
- Spooky23 4y ago
  Assuming you are male, if someone walked up to you, kicked you in the nuts, took your work and used it to get you run out of business, would you be ok hiring that person a decade later to perform a critical function?
  - 2devnull 4y ago
    Some people will pay good money to be kicked in the balls. I don’t agree with it, but those who enjoy it will make a strong case that the market be free for that sort of thing. Getting peed on also. There’s a market for everything.
  - seydor 4y ago
    if that person worked for decades for pennies to make me rich, and is unlikely to make me poor , maybe yes
  - flumpcakes 4y ago
    I would say the whole Arm situation in China is a much more clear-cut example of this. I haven't seen the west do anything about it.
- FpUser 4y ago
  >"but there must be some reason people are only taking action now?" I am sure there are legitimate concerns as all countries spy on each other. But China has become a real industrial and scientific competitor to China and the US just simply would not tolerate a threat to their leading position. I think they are quite explicit about this. We hear all the time about "vital interests".
maxfurman 4y ago
Do you have a source for this? A fascinating claim, I'd love to know more
- rossjudson 4y ago
  https://nationalpost.com/news/exclusive-did-huawei-bring-down-nortel-corporate-espionage-theft-and-the-parallel-rise-and-fall-of-two-telecom-giants https://nationalpost.com/news/exclusive-did-huawei-bring-dow...
- liketochill 4y ago
  Here’s a link. https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/nortel-collapse-linked-to-chinese-hackers-1.1260591 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/nortel-collapse-linked-to-c...
  - FpUser 4y ago
    >"A former systems security adviser to Nortel Networks says he has no doubt" Yeah sure, this sounds like an iron clad proof.
- vasac 4y ago
  Yeah, it's fascinating. Also it's not true. Some people that worked at Nortel at that time already spoke on HN what happened - hint: it was internal Nortel's issues. Something similar happened to Nokia, better products appeared and company wasn't able to compete.
  - screamingninja 4y ago
    Source?
    - fortuna86 4y ago
      Also would like a source
      - 4y ago
destitude 4y ago
Look up the FuFeng project where a Chinese company is trying to purchase land in North Dakota for an agriculture project near a US Air Force base. The city of Grand Forks even approved it but people are still trying to fight it because of national security risk.
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  Every time I see stories like this I can't help but feel a twisted sense of respect for China, because they know how to read the rulebooks and take advantage of it all for everything we're worth. Defeating the biggest military and geopolitical superpower known to mankind is trivial if you understand you can just ignore all that and instead buy it all up, and it becomes even more trivial if your enemy straight up gives you the monies for it. Literally free real estate. So kudos to China, they know how to play to win and they're playing to win at all costs while we keep hoisting our own petards.
  - leetcodesucks 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - dang 4y ago
      We've banned this account for breaking the site guidelines. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
  - jjeaff 4y ago
    I'm not quite sure what the long game would be of buying up land. Obviously, in an escalation of contentions between the two countries, the US would simply seize said land.
    - rlt 4y ago
      I think the concern is they could be using it for surveillance of sensitive nearby targets leading up to such an escalation.
rapind 4y ago
I hadn't heard of this before now. I will say though that Nortel had a lot of known issues, including fraudulent scheming by the executives, followed by completely screwing over the pensioners. Nortel leadership was rotten by the time it declared. https://financialpost.com/news/fp-street/earnings-management-scheme-resulted-in-bonuses-to-nortel-execs-crown-says https://financialpost.com/news/fp-street/earnings-management... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nortel_Retirees_and_former_employees_Protection_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nortel_Retirees_and_former_emp...
onethought 4y ago
Pretty sure Nortel had a pile of its own issues unrelated to any hacks. Wasn’t the ceo fired for dodgey accounting around the same time? Reds in the bed kind of fud here.
unmole 4y ago
> Huawei singlehandedly destroyed Canada's Nortel Networks through espionage and sabotage. Riiiiight. The dotcom crash followed by the accounting scam had absolutely nothing to do with it. It's not like the management pretended that they wouldn't see a downturn and then faked the numbers so that they'd get their bonuses. Oh, wait.
ej3 4y ago
My father worked for what was basically a bootstrapped startup at the bleeding edge of computing in the late 80's. Eventually his company, through a series of exchanges was part of Nortel Networks. He'll tell you a different story. When you mention the "espionage / sabotage" he doesn't laugh or shake his head, it actually just outright infuriates him. Such a naive narrative only angers him because it seems to absolve the people who managed the company of outright incompetence and corruption, which is how it should be remembered. For example: one story I vividly recall because I could never fully fathom it involved a specific female executive who was traveling for business - first class overseas. She never made her intended engagement because she was immediately arrested upon disembarking the plane. She had got drunk and (although married) decided to perform overt sexual acts with the gentleman sitting adjacent to her. On the plane. In her seat.[1] At some point the culture of the executive at Nortel, for whatever reason, became completely incompetent and outright immoral. Rather than Huawei underhandedly perpetrating the perfect crime, it was simply the people at the head of the organization that solicited the crime to pursue their own benefit above all else. [1] https://www.theregister.com/2000/04/06/former_nortel_exec_fined_over/ https://www.theregister.com/2000/04/06/former_nortel_exec_fi...
- blindriver 4y ago
  Sorry to point out, but your father had no special insight into Huawei's espionage at Nortel. I could say the exact same criticisms of my employer, but I wouldn't know anything about espionage going on. Huawei's espionage was well documented at Nortel, it's not within any level of dispute.

Matl 4y ago

> The CIA did an analysis I had my doubts, but not after the CIA said it's true.

proxyon 4y ago
I was going to say whatever the CIA says assume the exact opposite. These guys literally invented the word misinformation.

flumpcakes 4y ago

Nortel networks haven't been around for nearly a decade. I've seen lots of news about 5G/Huaewi and 'core networks' only in the recent years in western countries (UK/US mainly). However, I haven't seen anything published that really reflects new risks/major backdoored products. I wouldn't 100% trust anything built in China, but there must be some reason people are only taking action now? Unless it's just "better late than never" response after years of this.

heavyset_go 4y ago
People are taking action now because the West spent decades underestimating China, probably for xenophobic reasons. I'm willing to bet a lot of people assumed they weren't as capable as westerners and now it can't be denied. IMO, it was a classic mistake of underestimating a potential rival while stroking our own egos about how smart, capable and powerful we are in comparison. Reality finally trumped hubris.
- seydor 4y ago
  in what sense is a rival?
  - SSJPython 4y ago
    A rival for hegemony in the Asia-Pacific (APAC) region. The current hegemon in this region is the US. It is the strongest APAC power by far due to its numerous military bases as well as its network of strong allies (Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South Korea). China seeks to displace the US as the hegemon in APAC. Naturally, the current hegemon doesn't take too kindly to that. So they view China as a rival.
    - seydor 4y ago
      What about the rest of the West
      - SSJPython 4y ago
        What about it? The US is also the hegemon in Europe. The "West" just means the US and its network of alliances. Other Western countries may want good relations with China, but they need to take US views into account because the US bankrolls their defense and is also a very important trade partner. Large, strong countries do what they want and small, weak countries do what they must. That's the way it is and the way it's always been.
        seydor 4y ago
        Don't you think that 's a bit too arrogant? Why should germany support the US domination over Japan, when all they want is industrial materials through the indo-pacific route. I think the world was more fair during cold war, having 2 superpowers pushed both of them to keep each other in check. This one state world, seems worse
        rgbrenner 4y ago
Spooky23 4y ago
Assuming you are male, if someone walked up to you, kicked you in the nuts, took your work and used it to get you run out of business, would you be ok hiring that person a decade later to perform a critical function?
- 2devnull 4y ago
  Some people will pay good money to be kicked in the balls. I don’t agree with it, but those who enjoy it will make a strong case that the market be free for that sort of thing. Getting peed on also. There’s a market for everything.
- seydor 4y ago
  if that person worked for decades for pennies to make me rich, and is unlikely to make me poor , maybe yes
- flumpcakes 4y ago
  I would say the whole Arm situation in China is a much more clear-cut example of this. I haven't seen the west do anything about it.
FpUser 4y ago
>"but there must be some reason people are only taking action now?" I am sure there are legitimate concerns as all countries spy on each other. But China has become a real industrial and scientific competitor to China and the US just simply would not tolerate a threat to their leading position. I think they are quite explicit about this. We hear all the time about "vital interests".

maxfurman 4y ago

Do you have a source for this? A fascinating claim, I'd love to know more

rossjudson 4y ago
https://nationalpost.com/news/exclusive-did-huawei-bring-down-nortel-corporate-espionage-theft-and-the-parallel-rise-and-fall-of-two-telecom-giants https://nationalpost.com/news/exclusive-did-huawei-bring-dow...
liketochill 4y ago
Here’s a link. https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/nortel-collapse-linked-to-chinese-hackers-1.1260591 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/nortel-collapse-linked-to-c...
- FpUser 4y ago
  >"A former systems security adviser to Nortel Networks says he has no doubt" Yeah sure, this sounds like an iron clad proof.
vasac 4y ago
Yeah, it's fascinating. Also it's not true. Some people that worked at Nortel at that time already spoke on HN what happened - hint: it was internal Nortel's issues. Something similar happened to Nokia, better products appeared and company wasn't able to compete.
- screamingninja 4y ago
  Source?
  - fortuna86 4y ago
    Also would like a source
    - 4y ago

destitude 4y ago

Look up the FuFeng project where a Chinese company is trying to purchase land in North Dakota for an agriculture project near a US Air Force base. The city of Grand Forks even approved it but people are still trying to fight it because of national security risk.

Dalewyn 4y ago
Every time I see stories like this I can't help but feel a twisted sense of respect for China, because they know how to read the rulebooks and take advantage of it all for everything we're worth. Defeating the biggest military and geopolitical superpower known to mankind is trivial if you understand you can just ignore all that and instead buy it all up, and it becomes even more trivial if your enemy straight up gives you the monies for it. Literally free real estate. So kudos to China, they know how to play to win and they're playing to win at all costs while we keep hoisting our own petards.
- leetcodesucks 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - dang 4y ago
    We've banned this account for breaking the site guidelines. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
- jjeaff 4y ago
  I'm not quite sure what the long game would be of buying up land. Obviously, in an escalation of contentions between the two countries, the US would simply seize said land.
  - rlt 4y ago
    I think the concern is they could be using it for surveillance of sensitive nearby targets leading up to such an escalation.

rapind 4y ago

I hadn't heard of this before now. I will say though that Nortel had a lot of known issues, including fraudulent scheming by the executives, followed by completely screwing over the pensioners. Nortel leadership was rotten by the time it declared. https://financialpost.com/news/fp-street/earnings-management-scheme-resulted-in-bonuses-to-nortel-execs-crown-says https://financialpost.com/news/fp-street/earnings-management... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nortel_Retirees_and_former_employees_Protection_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nortel_Retirees_and_former_emp...

onethought 4y ago

Pretty sure Nortel had a pile of its own issues unrelated to any hacks. Wasn’t the ceo fired for dodgey accounting around the same time? Reds in the bed kind of fud here.

unmole 4y ago

> Huawei singlehandedly destroyed Canada's Nortel Networks through espionage and sabotage. Riiiiight. The dotcom crash followed by the accounting scam had absolutely nothing to do with it. It's not like the management pretended that they wouldn't see a downturn and then faked the numbers so that they'd get their bonuses. Oh, wait.

ej3 4y ago

My father worked for what was basically a bootstrapped startup at the bleeding edge of computing in the late 80's. Eventually his company, through a series of exchanges was part of Nortel Networks. He'll tell you a different story. When you mention the "espionage / sabotage" he doesn't laugh or shake his head, it actually just outright infuriates him. Such a naive narrative only angers him because it seems to absolve the people who managed the company of outright incompetence and corruption, which is how it should be remembered. For example: one story I vividly recall because I could never fully fathom it involved a specific female executive who was traveling for business - first class overseas. She never made her intended engagement because she was immediately arrested upon disembarking the plane. She had got drunk and (although married) decided to perform overt sexual acts with the gentleman sitting adjacent to her. On the plane. In her seat.[1] At some point the culture of the executive at Nortel, for whatever reason, became completely incompetent and outright immoral. Rather than Huawei underhandedly perpetrating the perfect crime, it was simply the people at the head of the organization that solicited the crime to pursue their own benefit above all else. [1] https://www.theregister.com/2000/04/06/former_nortel_exec_fined_over/ https://www.theregister.com/2000/04/06/former_nortel_exec_fi...

blindriver 4y ago
Sorry to point out, but your father had no special insight into Huawei's espionage at Nortel. I could say the exact same criticisms of my employer, but I wouldn't know anything about espionage going on. Huawei's espionage was well documented at Nortel, it's not within any level of dispute.