4 ms·

Investments in that area would be investment into European open source development as a whole and European IT in general. Businesses can spring up around such e

Investments in that area would be investment into European open source development as a whole and European IT in general. Businesses can spring up around such efforts, people can find employment, technology can be developed, and the European market could be strengthened.

brookst 4y ago
Are business allowed to use M365 if all of this open source investment fails to produce an equal-or-better solution? Or are businesses forced to operate with the result even if it’s terrible?
- still_grokking 4y ago
  Where is it allowed to do illegal things because you don't like the legal alternative (or there isn't even one)?
- lgreiv 4y ago
  I’ll take the strawman. Of course, the software would not be forced upon businesses. Commercial solutions that protect people’s data properly should be perfectly fine to use. I’d even expect many proprietary solutions to come up that solve niche use cases or provide a more polished UX/UI.
n8cpdx 4y ago
Why haven’t Europeans been able to be successful in this area already? It’s not like there aren’t always European businesses working on this problem. It is striking that both the evil empire solution (Microsoft 365) and the underdog disruptive upstart (Google Docs, at least that’s what it was ~15 years ago) are both American companies. iWork is American, Zoho is Indian. Why aren’t Europeans producing competitive software?
- quonn 4y ago
  OpenOffice was German (Star Office).
  - hutzlibu 4y ago
    And now the document foundation, which is behind LibreOffice (the active fork of the dead OpenOffice) is also german based. And they put a lot of work into it, also the modernisation. But to be honest, I am not sure, if they could ever become a serious competition. I think they would have to do a fresh UI start and be 100 microsoft office compatible. Then they would have a chance. With more official backing, this is maybe remotely possible, but I do not count on it. Rather political pressure for a slight modification for Microsofts operations for germany.
- bombcar 4y ago
  There’s a small market for it. Back before Gmail ate the world there were a number of small “mail server with webmail” in a box setups - those mostly died off. Similar things happened with office suites.
- still_grokking 4y ago
  There is more than enough EU software. The problem with the MS products is a different one. All authorities and almost all business are in tight vendor lock-in when it comes to US software. That's a powerful factor. You can't escape 30+ years of grown lock-in without "insane" investments. The second factor is of course the corruption all across the EU and its authorities. Ever heard the story of Munich's switch to Linux and than back to MS? "By chance" MS built its German headquarter in Munich right after that… (Of course hundreds of millions of Euros where in play there). And the sister of one of the lead politicians behind that is "by chance" working for MS in a high management role. There are also known buddy connections between the ex mayor of Munich and MS. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
- usrbinbash 4y ago
  > Why aren’t Europeans producing competitive software? They absolutely do; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeepL_Translator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeepL_Translator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TeamViewer_(company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TeamViewer_(company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lufthansa_Systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lufthansa_Systems Just 4 examples from Germany. There are countless software companies in Europe, and not just western...eastern Europe is going big in IT in some areas as well. The ability is certainly there. As to why that didn't (yet) result in good EU-centric alternatives to some of the big US providers in certain areas of IT...good question. I think the correct answer will be a mix of startup culture, government appreciation for the topics importance, convenience of existing solutions, marketing, and several other topics. Certainly not an easy question to give an answer to.
_8j50 4y ago
EU market would also weaken because they lose the competitive advantage of O365, even google workspace would be better. O365 (or its replacement) is as important as diesel and gasoline to the economy!

brookst 4y ago

Are business allowed to use M365 if all of this open source investment fails to produce an equal-or-better solution? Or are businesses forced to operate with the result even if it’s terrible?

still_grokking 4y ago
Where is it allowed to do illegal things because you don't like the legal alternative (or there isn't even one)?
lgreiv 4y ago
I’ll take the strawman. Of course, the software would not be forced upon businesses. Commercial solutions that protect people’s data properly should be perfectly fine to use. I’d even expect many proprietary solutions to come up that solve niche use cases or provide a more polished UX/UI.

n8cpdx 4y ago

Why haven’t Europeans been able to be successful in this area already? It’s not like there aren’t always European businesses working on this problem. It is striking that both the evil empire solution (Microsoft 365) and the underdog disruptive upstart (Google Docs, at least that’s what it was ~15 years ago) are both American companies. iWork is American, Zoho is Indian. Why aren’t Europeans producing competitive software?

quonn 4y ago
OpenOffice was German (Star Office).
- hutzlibu 4y ago
  And now the document foundation, which is behind LibreOffice (the active fork of the dead OpenOffice) is also german based. And they put a lot of work into it, also the modernisation. But to be honest, I am not sure, if they could ever become a serious competition. I think they would have to do a fresh UI start and be 100 microsoft office compatible. Then they would have a chance. With more official backing, this is maybe remotely possible, but I do not count on it. Rather political pressure for a slight modification for Microsofts operations for germany.
bombcar 4y ago
There’s a small market for it. Back before Gmail ate the world there were a number of small “mail server with webmail” in a box setups - those mostly died off. Similar things happened with office suites.
still_grokking 4y ago
There is more than enough EU software. The problem with the MS products is a different one. All authorities and almost all business are in tight vendor lock-in when it comes to US software. That's a powerful factor. You can't escape 30+ years of grown lock-in without "insane" investments. The second factor is of course the corruption all across the EU and its authorities. Ever heard the story of Munich's switch to Linux and than back to MS? "By chance" MS built its German headquarter in Munich right after that… (Of course hundreds of millions of Euros where in play there). And the sister of one of the lead politicians behind that is "by chance" working for MS in a high management role. There are also known buddy connections between the ex mayor of Munich and MS. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
usrbinbash 4y ago
> Why aren’t Europeans producing competitive software? They absolutely do; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeepL_Translator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeepL_Translator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TeamViewer_(company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TeamViewer_(company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lufthansa_Systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lufthansa_Systems Just 4 examples from Germany. There are countless software companies in Europe, and not just western...eastern Europe is going big in IT in some areas as well. The ability is certainly there. As to why that didn't (yet) result in good EU-centric alternatives to some of the big US providers in certain areas of IT...good question. I think the correct answer will be a mix of startup culture, government appreciation for the topics importance, convenience of existing solutions, marketing, and several other topics. Certainly not an easy question to give an answer to.

_8j50 4y ago

EU market would also weaken because they lose the competitive advantage of O365, even google workspace would be better. O365 (or its replacement) is as important as diesel and gasoline to the economy!