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In America, the "closing the tax gap" have always been adding new laws and filling more forms. Maybe USA should try simplify the tax code so those gap can be m

In America, the "closing the tax gap" have always been adding new laws and filling more forms. Maybe USA should try simplify the tax code so those gap can be more obvious?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
rkagerer 4y ago
Complexity of tax law is an absolute killer to productivity. I have a small business (not in USA) and I don't know how many times I've wished it could just be a simpler system, even if it meant I have to pay more! The savings in time, accounting complexity, professional fees, mental overhead, and stress would more than make up for it. It would also make efforts to automate compliance more feasible (as opposed to a system of nuanced rules that is constantly changing).
- 1123581321 4y ago
  It’s more typical for small business owners to rather have the money. It’s not hard to keep manageable Quickbooks and pay $1k/year for bookkeeping and tax prep. People on the losing end of tax reform would stand to lose thousands (or simply worry they would lose money.) Even a few thousand could mean the difference between viable and comfortable or struggling and viable. Those who are disorganized and/or worry over and internalize financial tasks as you describe tend to do so regardless of the complexity. That’s not to say we shouldn’t reform, and there are certainly businesses who would benefit from it financially.
  - rkagerer 4y ago
    $1k/yr? Maybe you could get that rate two decades ago, or for an extraordinarily simple business. (Or if you want a bargain-bin accountant, which experience teaches will cost you more in hassle over the long term). Even 7 years ago 77% of small businesses surveyed by SCORE reported spending more[1] (and it presumably doesn't include the day to day bookkeeping they do in-house). People on the losing end of tax reform would stand to lose thousands A lot more than that. I suspect those who benefit most from today's complex and loophole-ridden system are not the "ordinary joes" you alluded to in the first part of your reply. If you're gaining a "few thousand" from the existing complexities, but in the new world could file a return without the need for professional services, then it's a wash. I suppose accountants would lose out, but it turns out they're the loudest voices consistently calling for tax simplification (eg. see CGA Canada reports from 2011 through 2019). Those who are disorganized and/or worry over and internalize financial tasks as you describe tend to do so regardless of the complexity. Not sure if you're trying to insinuate that I'm disorganized, but I'm not going to bite. There's always winners and losers when you embark on tax reform. I simply feel society as a whole would experience a net benefit from efficiencies gained out of a substantially leaner tax code, and I wouldn't mind even if I personally landed on the slightly-losing side. [1] https://www.patriotsoftware.com/blog/accounting/how-much-should-accounting-cost/ https://www.patriotsoftware.com/blog/accounting/how-much-sho...
    - 1123581321 4y ago
      Yes, I want to be clear that I was saying you are at least somewhat disorganized (process could be smoother for the same effort and cost), and stressed out by your financials and probably would be in any situation. I didn’t mean to be sneaky with that. :) You mentioned SCORE; experience with that organization is what leads me to say that some business owners handle this stuff better than others whether their financial complexity increases or decreases. We don’t all have the same personality and gifts and that’s okay. Replace $1k with the appropriate percentage of revenue for the typical complexity for the industry of the business.
lost_tourist 4y ago
Or just leave well enough alone on something that has worked just fine for quite some time now.
PopAlongKid 4y ago
>In America, the "closing the tax gap" have always been adding new laws and filling more forms. You have omitted "increased enforcement" -- actually collecting the tax as calculated using existing laws and forms. Unfortunately there is a political movement to actually increase the tax gap via defunding the IRS.[0] The tax gap is due to those who deliberately break the law with impunity, not the complexity of the law. [0]https://www.dickmorris.com/defund-the-new-irs-agents-next-year/ https://www.dickmorris.com/defund-the-new-irs-agents-next-ye...

In America, the "closing the tax gap" have always been adding new laws and filling more forms. Maybe USA should try simplify the tax code so those gap can be more obvious?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

rkagerer 4y ago

Complexity of tax law is an absolute killer to productivity. I have a small business (not in USA) and I don't know how many times I've wished it could just be a simpler system, even if it meant I have to pay more! The savings in time, accounting complexity, professional fees, mental overhead, and stress would more than make up for it. It would also make efforts to automate compliance more feasible (as opposed to a system of nuanced rules that is constantly changing).

1123581321 4y ago
It’s more typical for small business owners to rather have the money. It’s not hard to keep manageable Quickbooks and pay $1k/year for bookkeeping and tax prep. People on the losing end of tax reform would stand to lose thousands (or simply worry they would lose money.) Even a few thousand could mean the difference between viable and comfortable or struggling and viable. Those who are disorganized and/or worry over and internalize financial tasks as you describe tend to do so regardless of the complexity. That’s not to say we shouldn’t reform, and there are certainly businesses who would benefit from it financially.
- rkagerer 4y ago
  $1k/yr? Maybe you could get that rate two decades ago, or for an extraordinarily simple business. (Or if you want a bargain-bin accountant, which experience teaches will cost you more in hassle over the long term). Even 7 years ago 77% of small businesses surveyed by SCORE reported spending more[1] (and it presumably doesn't include the day to day bookkeeping they do in-house). People on the losing end of tax reform would stand to lose thousands A lot more than that. I suspect those who benefit most from today's complex and loophole-ridden system are not the "ordinary joes" you alluded to in the first part of your reply. If you're gaining a "few thousand" from the existing complexities, but in the new world could file a return without the need for professional services, then it's a wash. I suppose accountants would lose out, but it turns out they're the loudest voices consistently calling for tax simplification (eg. see CGA Canada reports from 2011 through 2019). Those who are disorganized and/or worry over and internalize financial tasks as you describe tend to do so regardless of the complexity. Not sure if you're trying to insinuate that I'm disorganized, but I'm not going to bite. There's always winners and losers when you embark on tax reform. I simply feel society as a whole would experience a net benefit from efficiencies gained out of a substantially leaner tax code, and I wouldn't mind even if I personally landed on the slightly-losing side. [1] https://www.patriotsoftware.com/blog/accounting/how-much-should-accounting-cost/ https://www.patriotsoftware.com/blog/accounting/how-much-sho...
  - 1123581321 4y ago
    Yes, I want to be clear that I was saying you are at least somewhat disorganized (process could be smoother for the same effort and cost), and stressed out by your financials and probably would be in any situation. I didn’t mean to be sneaky with that. :) You mentioned SCORE; experience with that organization is what leads me to say that some business owners handle this stuff better than others whether their financial complexity increases or decreases. We don’t all have the same personality and gifts and that’s okay. Replace $1k with the appropriate percentage of revenue for the typical complexity for the industry of the business.

lost_tourist 4y ago

Or just leave well enough alone on something that has worked just fine for quite some time now.

PopAlongKid 4y ago

>In America, the "closing the tax gap" have always been adding new laws and filling more forms. You have omitted "increased enforcement" -- actually collecting the tax as calculated using existing laws and forms. Unfortunately there is a political movement to actually increase the tax gap via defunding the IRS.[0] The tax gap is due to those who deliberately break the law with impunity, not the complexity of the law. [0]https://www.dickmorris.com/defund-the-new-irs-agents-next-year/ https://www.dickmorris.com/defund-the-new-irs-agents-next-ye...