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Why did you find it mind-blowing? Even though you disagree, shouldn’t you find it unsurprising that most people think that ignorant employees or contractors did

Why did you find it mind-blowing? Even though you disagree, shouldn’t you find it unsurprising that most people think that ignorant employees or contractors didn’t do anything wrong, especially below the level of executive? What experiences led to your surprise?

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> shouldn’t you find it unsurprising that most people think that ignorant employees or contractors didn’t do anything wrong, especially below the level of executive? We aren’t the first generation asking these questions. Most of this is settled law. Profiting from perpetuating fraud generally involves clawbacks. Where the thresholds lie is a matter for courts. But everyone involved will be drawn into that process. If you find that distasteful, consider whether you are profiting from fraud.
- 1123581321 4y ago
  Ah, I see. You’re confused. You’re thinking of precedent for individuals aware of it, who knowingly perpetuated it (who can typically be charged criminally) and you’re perhaps conflating it with situations where innocent employees at a company lost retirement investments or jobs due to the collapse of the fraudulent company. While it’s true that these are old questions, it simply is not settled law that claws back money from employees who worked at a company doing wrong but didn’t perpetuate the fraud themselves. So, the answer to my question might be that you acquired a misunderstanding of the law at some point. You also believed that most people in HN are versed in this area of business law so expected them to see this your way.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > thinking of precedent for individuals aware of it, who knowingly perpetuated it (who can typically be charged criminally) and you’re perhaps conflating it with situations where innocent employees at a company lost retirement investments or jobs Nope. If they were aware, that’s criminal. If they were bystanders, that’s just tough luck. We are discussing liability. Promoters have been held responsible for fraud, particularly around securities promotion, for over a century. This isn’t arcane law. It’s commonsensical for anyone not making their living peddling fraud.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> shouldn’t you find it unsurprising that most people think that ignorant employees or contractors didn’t do anything wrong, especially below the level of executive? We aren’t the first generation asking these questions. Most of this is settled law. Profiting from perpetuating fraud generally involves clawbacks. Where the thresholds lie is a matter for courts. But everyone involved will be drawn into that process. If you find that distasteful, consider whether you are profiting from fraud.

1123581321 4y ago
Ah, I see. You’re confused. You’re thinking of precedent for individuals aware of it, who knowingly perpetuated it (who can typically be charged criminally) and you’re perhaps conflating it with situations where innocent employees at a company lost retirement investments or jobs due to the collapse of the fraudulent company. While it’s true that these are old questions, it simply is not settled law that claws back money from employees who worked at a company doing wrong but didn’t perpetuate the fraud themselves. So, the answer to my question might be that you acquired a misunderstanding of the law at some point. You also believed that most people in HN are versed in this area of business law so expected them to see this your way.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > thinking of precedent for individuals aware of it, who knowingly perpetuated it (who can typically be charged criminally) and you’re perhaps conflating it with situations where innocent employees at a company lost retirement investments or jobs Nope. If they were aware, that’s criminal. If they were bystanders, that’s just tough luck. We are discussing liability. Promoters have been held responsible for fraud, particularly around securities promotion, for over a century. This isn’t arcane law. It’s commonsensical for anyone not making their living peddling fraud.